[AD&D 1E] update part 2

AD&D 1E Sheet info and Beta campaign 3/19/24:
Test Game Link (open to all) v1.655 beta

• Continuing to work on implementing changes/features from the suggestion list below.
• The majority of changes have been added.

Join the 1e beta game if you would like test the latest changes. This game is open to the public. You can access existing in-game characters and/or import an existing character.

(note: import using your character vault. Make the character(s) have "all players" permissions set prior to export/import so you can control them in the beta game.)

Post any bugs comments/suggestions to this thread.

Future Suggestions/Ideas for the AD&D 1e sheet

These suggestions/ideas are given in no particular order and I make no guarantees if these suggestions can be, or will be, included in future updates. That said, I always try to do my best at accommodating popular suggestions. ;-) ...

Omg these look great! I know it’s not cannon, but can we option d6 or d10 for initiative?

thank you

Awesome work, Vince. Thank you.

"Bug - item cost; item cost isn’t included unless the “carried” box is checked."
This works as expected without having to select "carried" in the v1.51 sheet, fyi.

"Equipment - remove costs or make it optional."
I rely on the cost fields to keep players in-check during character creation but, after that point, it's not a critical feature.

"Initiative - Adding tokens to the tracker when rolling Initiative from the sheet; Is it safe to assume that adding a linked pc/npc token to the turn tracker automatically from an initiative roll would be acceptable? I can try and make this a sheet option. Also, exposing the Init roll should help if anyone wants to handle initiative a certain way."
Would be great if publishing to the tracker were a clickable option. Right now I have two initiative buttons as sheet macros - one for melee and one for missile initiative (which gets the DEX reaction bonus added automatically). OSRIC init rolls dictate the opponent's segment of action, so the higher you roll the better it is for you. DEX bonus increases your chance of going first as the opponent's roll is incremented by that many segments.

"QoL - add XP bonus; self explanatory."
Was wondering about tracking XP for multi-class characters. Currently there is only one field for XP, and there is not way to visually indicate if the 10% bonus for prime requisite applies to any or all classes. Multiple fields (up to 3)? Simple click-boxes as a reminder?

"Saves - Add Racial mod to Saves and Resistance; seems beneficial, but again, do you see this as adding a Racial mod field simply for reference (which should only be considered when manually entering the final save's value) or including multiple fields (ie base from table + racial mod + misc mod) that auto-calcs as a "Total Save" used for that save roll?"
I have used the bracketed (percentile) field next to the CON attribute to store a Dwarf's CON/3.5 bonus vs Poison & Magic, then modified the SavingThrow macro to add a separate menu choice for Poison (broken away from Paralysis/Death) which adds that bonus to the relevant categories.

"Thief - Add racial mod to Thief Skills; Do you see this as adding a Racial mod field simply for reference (which should only be considered when manually entering the skills final value) or including multiple fields (ie base from table + racial mod + misc mod) that auto-calcs as a "Total" used for that skill roll? What other adjustments/fields might apply?"
The (minor, trivial, first-world) problem I have with the Saving Throws and Thief Skill Checks sections is that the entries will change at specific level boundaries. In either case, I would prefer not to have to alter the target values during each revision by manually applying racial and/or CON/DEX modifiers to each category considering these can be calculated from (largely) static table entries to give final targets. Pure QoL for me.

"Thief - incorporate the backstab field; determine if there is a way to utilize the backstab attribute."
I've including attack entries in the Weapons section for the thief (who can dual-wield) to make combination attacks with the appropriate to-hit adjustments from a single click. I will be adding another for the backstab situation, referencing the +4 to-hit and backstab field multiplier. 
<edit>I have been unable to extract information (so far) from the two macros; I want to compare the to-hit rolls a set target value and, if they are both over, I want to add another die roll to the attack sum. Suspect this will be harder than I thought</edit>

I can't remember if the Mental Save button next to the WIS attribute was fixed - on the v1.51 sheet if you entered a modifier other than 0, you only got nonsense results...

cheers

Chris

Thanks for the suggestions and the comments on the listed suggestions.  I've updated/revised the list to match the thread and will continue to do so as needed. 
The "cost-carry" bug on the list seems to only be an issue in the v1.56 beta.  I'll see if I can get that figured out before pushing the repeating attribute update/migration. 

Again, apologies in advance for any custom macros that the pending update will break...
vÍnce said;

I would like to go ahead and push the new repeating attribute code ASAP.  It's been mentioned here a while back... and I included it as a new sheet announcement last month. There's one minor issue I still need to look at.(One of the roll template keys is being duplicated during the migration routine. Doesn't break anything, but it shouldn't happen.) The migration from the old repeating attribute names to the new ones should happen automatically, but there will be some collateral damage for people using custom macros which will need to be manually updated to match the new repeating name schema.  Any on-sheet custom macro-text that has issues(no attribute found error) can be manually edited or simply cleared/reset which will re-populate the field with to the new default macro-text.

"Attacks - Add To-hit vs Armor type to repeating attacks; Truth be told, our group opted not to use the weapon vs armor-type or speed factor rules in combat... (gasp) so I might need a refresher. These adjustments only apply vs a given armor-type (so, no dex adjustment, not sure if shields are factored in either) right?. Maybe include a "to-hit vs armor-type row" within each repeating weapon-attack that could be used per weapon/attack to adjust the to-hit/thac0 matrix displayed? But I don't think that actually works since you would need to know the enemy's armor rating (2-10) as well as the Dex reaction mod. Am I overly-complicating this? How are people currently handling this...? hmm @Baron posted how he includes the table info in each weapon's notes as reference."

OSRIC has ditched both Weapon Type vs Armour Type and Weapon Speed Factor. But, back in the day, I used both in 1e (and I am still on the fence if I would use them in a modern, strict game of 1e). There's already a field on the sheet for Weapon Speed, but it does not directly factor into INIT. If the Type vs Type were to be incorporated as a separate row in the Character Sheet, it should just be whispered to the DM, no? Following the RAW is awkward and time consuming at best if you want to keep an air of mystery going during combat. In my case, I'm already using the Weapon Notes field for other info about the item (Specialisation, combination attack, range steps, etc.)

Vince - I don't have a problem re-writing any macros that "break" during the update. That's a cost of doing business in the public sphere. Helps me learn more about the system, anyway.

Hello all I am wanting to create a first edition dungeons & dragons game and I was looking for apis I saw this thread is the API completed ? Pork semi completed and is there a chance I could actually get a copy of it? 

jason t. said:

Hello all I am wanting to create a first edition dungeons & dragons game and I was looking for apis I saw this thread is the API completed ? Pork semi completed and is there a chance I could actually get a copy of it?

Hi Jason,

this thread is in regards to the AD&D1e character sheet and some upcoming updates I'm planning to make to it. There isn't a specific API script (Pro subscription required) written for this sheet.  Perhaps one might be written in the future.  Some sheets (5e, Pathfinder Community, etc.) have "companion" scripts written to enhance features of a given sheet. TBH, most of the features found in a companion script can be had by combining various other scripts but require much more work to customize them as needed.

"QoL - add XP tracking for Multi-class PC's."

with respect to this change request, is there an associated need to specify the # of HD (and/or die type) for each class? i.e. if there were three fields to record the individual XP for each class, would you not also want three fields to track the # of HD or is doing that too far down in the weeds for this sheet?

Chris A. said:

"QoL - add XP tracking for Multi-class PC's."

with respect to this change request, is there an associated need to specify the # of HD (and/or die type) for each class? i.e. if there were three fields to record the individual XP for each class, would you not also want three fields to track the # of HD or is doing that too far down in the weeds for this sheet?

I'm thinking "Expand Multi-Class" support is probably a feature/suggestion in it's own right, and yes, class specific features would probably need to be tracked separately... I'll add this to the list as well.

ADnD_1E v1.58 - repeating attribute update #9609

• Important - As of this update, ALL repeating attributes have now been updated/renamed.  
  
  In advance of updating the 1e sheet to bring it inline with Roll20's recommended Best Practices: https://wiki.roll20.net/Building_Character_Sheets#Best_Practices as well as adding some additional quality of life improvements (monster sheet, localization/translations, additional auto-calculations, tabbed layout, and more...), ALL repeating attributes have been renamed for consistency and to prevent possible attribute naming conflicts.  
  
  Existing attribute data has been copied over to the new repeating attributes. The migration of data has been handled automatically without losing any sheet functionality. The vast majority of sheet users should be unaffected by this change.  
  
  That said;  
  
  any existing, "off-sheet" macros (token/ability and/or collection macros) that use the old repeating attribute names will no longer function properly and will produce a chat error: "no attribute found" until they are manually edited to use the new repeating names.(see new attribute name examples below) While I can automatically migrate attributes through a sheet update, I cannot update a user created custom macros... I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause some of you.  
  
  Repeating name change examples;  
  
  old attribute name: @{repeating_weapon_$0_name}  
  new attribute name: @{repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_name}  
  
  old attribute name: @{repeating_equipment_$0_name}  
  new attribute name: @{repeating_equipment_$0_equipment_name}  
  
  old attribute name: @{repeating_ability_$0_name}  
  new attribute name: @{repeating_ability_$0_ability_name}  
  
  old attribute name: @{repeating_nonweaponproficiencies_$0_name}  
  new attribute name: @{repeating_nonweaponproficiencies_$0_nwp_name}  
  
  old attribute name: @{repeating_spells_$0_name}  
  new attribute name: @{repeating_spells_$0_spell_name}  
  
  This subtle but important difference ensures that the sheet uses _unique_ attribute names in order to prevent any issues with sheetworker calculations, macros, API scripts, and/or Roll20 features. This naming schema applies to all repeating sections (repeating_weapon, repeating_equipment, repeating_ability, repeating_nonweaponproficiencies, and repeating_spells). FYI: hovering over a field on the sheet will show any given attribute's name.  
  
  More details about this update as well as upcoming updates can be found on the  
  Current AD&D1e sheet thread: https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/10354613/ad-and-d-1e-update-part-2  
  Old AD&D1e sheet thread discussions.: https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/8460127/ad-and-d-1e-update  
  
  A "beta" game has been made available for testing the latest updates prior to going live as well. Join link here: https://app.roll20.net/join/731454/6RYNIQ  Feel free to import characters and review the latest changes. Please report any bugs and/or suggestions to the 1e discussion thread linked above.  
  Sincerely,  
  ~ Vince
  
  
• added a couple more background options (goldenrod and moldvay) ;-)
  
  

seems with the current update  that any new weapons added to the sheet do not update the repeating weapon ID. how do you change the ID on the Sheet itself to reflect increases?  

Luna said:

seems with the current update  that any new weapons added to the sheet do not update the repeating weapon ID. how do you change the ID on the Sheet itself to reflect increases?  

Not sure I follow Luna... can you elaborate?

(pardon if you already know this) Each repeating row is given a unique rowID by roll20 when it's created. One method you can use to learn the rowID (maybe to use with custom macro) is to use the browser's "inspect element" feature.  ie Right-click the name field of a repeating row and choose to "Inspect/Inspect Element" which will open the code inspector which shows the HTML used for the sheet.  Not too far up the code from the row's name is "class="repitem" data-reprowid="...".  The reprowid is the unique rowID.

AFAIK, you cannot change a rowID.  It is assigned upon creation and remains linked to those attributes regardless of it's physical order with regards to the other rows in the same fieldset.  This feature is also why it's better to use a rowID vs physical placement "$X" (with X=physical row position).

Starting to flesh out some sheet updates...

1. Is it beneficial to track HD, HP, and XP per class?  Perhaps something like this?

2. Should HP be tracked per level as well? (in case of level drain or similar)

3. I'm also torn on what should actually be calculated by the 1e sheet? Focusing on HP specifically for the moment; I could include additional column(s) with a running total of "rolled HP" + (CON bonus * Class_Level)  and display a "Total Class HP" calculated by the sheet.  Current and Max HP would still be shown at the top of the sheet.  Again, hitpoints_max could be calculated by the sheet and would take into account multi-class characters, but the math would need to be done BTB.  I know many people house-rule multi-class hp calc.

Thoughts/Suggestions?
Thanks

All I am seeing on the first post here is:

Is it supposed to look like this here?

vÍnce said:

ADnD_1E v1.58 - repeating attribute update #9609

• Important - As of this update, ALL repeating attributes have now been updated/renamed.  
  
  In advance of updating the 1e sheet to bring it inline with Roll20's recommended Best Practices: https://wiki.roll20.net/Building_Character_Sheets#Best_Practices as well as adding some additional quality of life improvements (monster sheet, localization/translations, additional auto-calculations, tabbed layout, and more...), ALL repeating attributes have been renamed for consistency and to prevent possible attribute naming conflicts.  

&{template:attacks} {{color=@{color_option}}}
{{name=@{character_name}}} {{subtag=@{WeaponName}}} {{attack1=[[1d20 +
@{ToHitBonus}[BON] + @{MagicBonus}[MAG] + ?{To Hit Modifier?|0}[MOD]) ]] }}
{{[Damage vs S/M](!
 Damage vs
S/M=[[@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_DamageSmallMedium} +
@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_AttackDmgBonus}[BON] +
@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_MagicBonus}[MAG] + ?{Damage
Modifier?|0}[MOD] ]]) [Damage vs L](!
 Damage
vs L=[[@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_DamageLarge} +
@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_AttackDmgBonus}[BON] +
@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_MagicBonus}[MAG] + ?{Damage
Modifier?|0}[MOD] ]])}} | Ensure
@{character_name} is selected BEFORE damage roll | {{WeaponNotes=  Ensure @{character_name}'s
token is selected BEFORE the damage roll! → → →
@{WeaponNotes}}} @{whisper_to-hit}

For the existing weapons entries, the above has been converted to (sorry, but with the formatting here, no line breaks appear):

&{template:attacks} {{color=@{color_option}}} {{name=@{character_name}}} {{subtag=@{weapon_name}}} {{attack1=[[1d20 + @{weapon_tohitbonus}[BON] + @{weapon_magicbonus}[MAG] + ?{To Hit Modifier?|0}[MOD]) ]] }} {{[Damage vs S/M](!
 Damage vs S/M=[[@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_DamageSmallMedium} + @{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_AttackDmgBonus}[BON] + @{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_MagicBonus}[MAG] + ?{Damage Modifier?|0}[MOD] ]]) [Damage vs L](!
 Damage vs L=[[@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_DamageLarge} + @{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_AttackDmgBonus}[BON] + @{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_MagicBonus}[MAG] + ?{Damage Modifier?|0}[MOD] ]])}} | Ensure @{character_name} is selected BEFORE damage roll | {{WeaponNotes=  Ensure @{character_name}'s token is selected BEFORE the damage roll! → → → @{weapon_notes}}} 

&{template:attacks} {{color=@{color_option}}} {{name=@{character_name}}} {{subtag=To Hit Armor Class}} {{ToHitAC-10to0=[[ @{THAC-10} ]]|[[ @{THAC-9} ]]|[[ @{THAC-8} ]]|[[ @{THAC-7} ]]|[[ @{THAC-6} ]]|[[ @{THAC-5} ]]|[[ @{THAC-4} ]]|[[ @{THAC-3} ]]|[[ @{THAC-2} ]]|[[ @{THAC-1} ]]|[[ @{THAC0} ]]}} {{ToHitAC1to10=[[ @{THAC0} ]]|[[ @{THAC1} ]]|[[ @{THAC2} ]]|[[ @{THAC3} ]]|[[ @{THAC4} ]]|[[ @{THAC5} ]]|[[ @{THAC6} ]]|[[ @{THAC7} ]]|[[ @{THAC8} ]]|[[ @{THAC9} ]]|[[ @{THAC10} ]] }}

It works as it did when it was the previous code, above very well.

I figured it would be a matter of changing the repeating lines from $0 to the appropriate line.  While the weapon roll works, the damage does not and I  get:

Sorry, we just find rolling to hit AND damage for both small and large all at the same time to be very odd.  Since we started in 78, it's been roll the d20 to hit.  Only if you hit do you roll the damage dice and it's always exciting when fighting a low armour class opponent to then anticipate the nervous player rolling for damage! :)

Hi Tim,

I've been using some stylish adjustments to cobble together a "darker" mode for the site and it often causes some formatting issues when I copy/paste to the forums. ;-(  I'll try and clean the intro post at the top of this thread.  Thanks for pointing that out. Should be fixed now...

Regarding the no attribute found.  I'm nearly 99% sure this is related to the last update that renamed All repeating attributes on the sheet!  There's info about that here as well as the "Announcements" section at the top of the sheet.  Default rolls on the sheet "should" all convert/migrate without issue, but any custom macros on/off the sheet that use the old repeating attributes need to be edited...  I apologize for any inconvenience this has caused with custom macros. 
example to convert your macro from above;

&{template:attacks} {{color=@{color_option}}}
{{name=@{character_name}}} {{subtag=@{WeaponName}}} {{attack1=[[1d20 +
@{ToHitBonus}[BON] + @{MagicBonus}[MAG] + ?{To Hit Modifier?|0}[MOD]) ]] }}
{{[Damage vs S/M](!
 Damage vs
S/M=[[@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_DamageSmallMedium} +
@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_AttackDmgBonus}[BON] +
@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_MagicBonus}[MAG] + ?{Damage
Modifier?|0}[MOD] ]]) [Damage vs L](!
 Damage
vs L=[[@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_DamageLarge} +
@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_AttackDmgBonus}[BON] +
@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_MagicBonus}[MAG] + ?{Damage
Modifier?|0}[MOD] ]])}} | Ensure
@{character_name} is selected BEFORE damage roll | {{WeaponNotes=  Ensure @{character_name}'s
token is selected BEFORE the damage roll! → → →
@{WeaponNotes}}} @{whisper_to-hit}

&{template:attacks} {{color=@{color_option}}} {{name=@{character_name}}} {{subtag=@{weapon_name}}} {{attack1=[[1d20 + @{weapon_tohitbonus}[BON] + @{weapon_magicbonus}[MAG] + ?{To Hit Modifier?|0}[MOD]) ]] }} {{[Damage vs S/M](!
 Damage vs S/M=[[@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_DamageSmallMedium} + @{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_AttackDmgBonus}[BON] + @{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_MagicBonus}[MAG] + ?{Damage Modifier?|0}[MOD] ]]) [Damage vs L](!
 Damage vs L=[[@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_DamageLarge} + @{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_AttackDmgBonus}[BON] + @{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_MagicBonus}[MAG] + ?{Damage Modifier?|0}[MOD] ]])}} | Ensure @{character_name} is selected BEFORE damage roll | {{WeaponNotes=  Ensure @{character_name}'s token is selected BEFORE the damage roll! → → → @{weapon_notes}}} 

&{template:attacks} {{color=@{color_option}}} {{name=@{character_name}}} {{subtag=To Hit Armor Class}} {{ToHitAC-10to0=[[ @{THAC-10} ]]|[[ @{THAC-9} ]]|[[ @{THAC-8} ]]|[[ @{THAC-7} ]]|[[ @{THAC-6} ]]|[[ @{THAC-5} ]]|[[ @{THAC-4} ]]|[[ @{THAC-3} ]]|[[ @{THAC-2} ]]|[[ @{THAC-1} ]]|[[ @{THAC0} ]]}} {{ToHitAC1to10=[[ @{THAC0} ]]|[[ @{THAC1} ]]|[[ @{THAC2} ]]|[[ @{THAC3} ]]|[[ @{THAC4} ]]|[[ @{THAC5} ]]|[[ @{THAC6} ]]|[[ @{THAC7} ]]|[[ @{THAC8} ]]|[[ @{THAC9} ]]|[[ @{THAC10} ]] }}

Let me know if this is not the issue for your table and I will do my best to help troubleshoot and solve any issues.

Tim M said:

Sorry, we just find rolling to hit AND damage for both small and large all at the same time to be very odd.  Since we started in 78, it's been roll the d20 to hit.  Only if you hit do you roll the damage dice and it's always exciting when fighting a low armour class opponent to then anticipate the nervous player rolling for damage! :)

I agree and I will look at how I can add a button to roll the appropriate damage from the attack roll in chat as the default.  ;-)

vÍnce said:

Regarding the no attribute found.  I'm nearly 99% sure this is related to the last update that renamed All repeating attributes on the sheet!  There's info about that here as well as the "Announcements" section at the top of the sheet.  Default rolls on the sheet "should" all convert/migrate without issue, but any custom macros on/off the sheet that use the old repeating attributes need to be edited...  I apologize for any inconvenience this has caused with custom macros. 

example to convert your macro from above;

<SNIP>

&{template:attacks} {{color=@{color_option}}} {{name=@{character_name}}} {{subtag=@{weapon_name}}} {{attack1=[[1d20 + @{weapon_tohitbonus}[BON] + @{weapon_magicbonus}[MAG] + ?{To Hit Modifier?|0}[MOD]) ]] }} {{[Damage vs S/M](!
 Damage vs S/M=[[@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_DamageSmallMedium} + @{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_AttackDmgBonus}[BON] + @{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_MagicBonus}[MAG] + ?{Damage Modifier?|0}[MOD] ]]) [Damage vs L](!
 Damage vs L=[[@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_DamageLarge} + @{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_AttackDmgBonus}[BON] + @{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_MagicBonus}[MAG] + ?{Damage Modifier?|0}[MOD] ]])}} | Ensure @{character_name} is selected BEFORE damage roll | {{WeaponNotes=  Ensure @{character_name}'s token is selected BEFORE the damage roll! → → → @{weapon_notes}}} 

&{template:attacks} {{color=@{color_option}}} {{name=@{character_name}}} {{subtag=To Hit Armor Class}} {{ToHitAC-10to0=[[ @{THAC-10} ]]|[[ @{THAC-9} ]]|[[ @{THAC-8} ]]|[[ @{THAC-7} ]]|[[ @{THAC-6} ]]|[[ @{THAC-5} ]]|[[ @{THAC-4} ]]|[[ @{THAC-3} ]]|[[ @{THAC-2} ]]|[[ @{THAC-1} ]]|[[ @{THAC0} ]]}} {{ToHitAC1to10=[[ @{THAC0} ]]|[[ @{THAC1} ]]|[[ @{THAC2} ]]|[[ @{THAC3} ]]|[[ @{THAC4} ]]|[[ @{THAC5} ]]|[[ @{THAC6} ]]|[[ @{THAC7} ]]|[[ @{THAC8} ]]|[[ @{THAC9} ]]|[[ @{THAC10} ]] }}

Let me know if this is not the issue for your table and I will do my best to help troubleshoot and solve any issues.

Thank you Vince, that top line did not work, I just got the same result as my post above.  :)

Don't worry about it.  The converted weapons work fine.  If we add new weapons we'll have to use the default for now. 

I tried dividing your new default script into buttons after the roll to hit, but while I could get buttons to show, I could not get them to do anything.

@Tim If you want me to investigate further, just ask.  The weapon macros and roll template will be getting a re-work in the near future as well as everything else.  Hopefully we'll end up with something better...

See if this works for you Tim (obviously this macro is only setup for the first attack row, adjust accordingly...)

&{template:attacks} {{color=@{selected|color_option}}}{{name=@{selected|character_name}}} {{subtag=@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_Name}}} {{attack1=[[1d20 +@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_ToHitBonus}[BON] + @{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_MagicBonus}[MAG] + ?{To Hit Modifier?|0}[MOD]) ]] }}{{[Damage vs S/M](!
 Damage vs S/M=[[@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_DamageSmallMedium} +@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_AttackDmgBonus}[BON] +@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_MagicBonus}[MAG] + ?{DamageModifier?|0}[MOD] ]]) [Damage vs L](!
 Damage vs L=[[@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_DamageLarge} +@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_AttackDmgBonus}[BON] +@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_MagicBonus}[MAG] + ?{DamageModifier?|0}[MOD] ]])}} | Ensure@{selected|character_name} is selected BEFORE damage roll | {{WeaponNotes=Ensure @{selected|character_name}'s token is selected BEFORE the damage roll! → → →@{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_Weapon_Notes}}} @{selected|repeating_weapon_$0_weapon_whisper_to_hit}

Saves:  currently the mod query works to adjust the roll, but the success/fail border is only based off the roll alone...  While we can use the query to reduce the target# so the green/red border works correctly, it can be confusing to see the target # not actually match the save you have on the sheet. For now(in testing), I have removed the success vs fail check and simply show the roll result vs the target number.  This is transparent and everyone can see if the number rolled + mod is above or below the target #.  I'll revisit this in the future and make changes to the roll template to handle proper success vs fail indicators.

Moving forward on Saves; 

I want to include some save modifiers on the sheet.  I'm thinking of adding mods for race, ability, class, and other.  Is this too much, not enough, or not necessary?  Or maybe just one misc. save mod per saving throw type?
Basically we would start with an "Unmodified" value(Saving Throw Matrix by class/lvl), add any adjustments for the before mentioned mods, and end up with a "Modified" Total (the current save attributes we currently use). The total would be the target # that you roll against.

Hi Vince, sorry for the delay; life. 

ref 1> I would prefer to have level, XP, and bonus to be tracked and shown separately per class as your image below indicates. Looks great to me.

ref 2> I intend to track HP rolled per level (per class) for our characters for the reason you stated, and was going to use the Notes section at the bottom of the sheet. If there were dedicated fields set aside for this, that would be great, but I wouldn't demand it.

ref 3> page 32 of the PHB indicates rolling the new level die and dividing by either 2 or 3 depending on how many classes total there are. The text fails to reference the addition of the CON bonus per die, and does not deal with the obvious staggering of level progression since each class has their own XP milestones. i.e. an MU//Thief moving from 1st to 2nd level will hit the thief milestone first, so they will roll their second d6 without having an commensurate d4 roll for the MU class. If we assume a 15 CON and max values for levels 1//1 (4+1, and 6+1 = 5 + 7 = 12 /2 = 6 HP), when going to 2nd level Thief rolls a 4 (+1 = 5 /2 = 2.5 additional HP) for a total of 8 HP* at levels 1//2. It is only slightly more complicated with triple-class .333 remainders after division.

* I have always rounded down in cases like these and waited for the 2nd level of the other class to make adjustments. i.e. when the 1//2 MU//Thief reaches their 2nd MU level they roll a 2 (+1 = 3 /2 = 1.5 additional HP). Having truncated (but not discarded) the .5 HP from the previous advance, they now increase by 2 HP instead of 1, for a new total of 10 HP at levels 2//2. 

If the sheet were to keep track of totals by class, assuming max at lvl 1, let's try (at levels 1//1//1)
Fighter         11 (10+1)
Magic-User   5 (4+1)
Thief             7 (6+1)

changing to (at levels 1//1//2)
Fighter         11 (10+1)
Magic User   5 (4+1)
Thief             12 (6+1 + 4+1)

changing to (at levels 2//1//2)
Fighter          18 (10+1 + 6+1)
Magic-User   5 (4+1)
Thief             12 (6+1 + 4+1)

changing to (at levels 2//2//2)
Fighter          18 (10+1, 6+1)
Magic-User   8 (4+1 + 2+1))
Thief             12 (6+1 + 4+1)

vÍnce said:

Starting to flesh out some sheet updates...

1. Is it beneficial to track HD, HP, and XP per class?  Perhaps something like this?

2. Should HP be tracked per level as well? (in case of level drain or similar)

3. I'm also torn on what should actually be calculated by the 1e sheet? Focusing on HP specifically for the moment; I could include additional column(s) with a running total of "rolled HP" + (CON bonus * Class_Level)  and display a "Total Class HP" calculated by the sheet.  Current and Max HP would still be shown at the top of the sheet.  Again, hitpoints_max could be calculated by the sheet and would take into account multi-class characters, but the math would need to be done BTB.  I know many people house-rule multi-class hp calc.

Thoughts/Suggestions?
Thanks

Hi Chris,
There's some GREAT discussions on multi-class HP on the dragonsfoot forums(kind of my "go to" for 1e rules clarifications and more...)
Good thread on the topic here;
https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1823295&sid=73c8044c277f2e3b498552715f190240#p1823295

Thank you. I keep forgetting about Dragonsfoot for some reason.

I am in favour of the saving throw adjustments being added into a table based on the source of the modifier, and the target value being the final sum to be used for the pass-fail colouration. There may be occasions where a specific situation will modify the target value, as much as I hate to admit it, so you probably need to keep the modifier query attached to each roll macro.

One specific issue is that a Dwarf's CON bonus will apply to the Poison portion of the Poison, Paralysis and Death Magic category, but not the other two aspects. So in my Dwarf save macro I broke out the Poison save as a separate item. YMMV

Chris

vÍnce said:

Saves:  currently the mod query works to adjust the roll, but the success/fail border is only based off the roll alone...  While we can use the query to reduce the target# so the green/red border works correctly, it can be confusing to see the target # not actually match the save you have on the sheet. For now(in testing), I have removed the success vs fail check and simply show the roll result vs the target number.  This is transparent and everyone can see if the number rolled + mod is above or below the target #.  I'll revisit this in the future and make changes to the roll template to handle proper success vs fail indicators.

Moving forward on Saves; 

I want to include some save modifiers on the sheet.  I'm thinking of adding mods for race, ability, class, and other.  Is this too much, not enough, or not necessary?  Or maybe just one misc. save mod per saving throw type?
Basically we would start with an "Unmodified" value(Saving Throw Matrix by class/lvl), add any adjustments for the before mentioned mods, and end up with a "Modified" Total (the current save attributes we currently use). The total would be the target # that you roll against.

One of the posters went to great length explaining how they calculated HP for a Fighter/Magic-User/Cleric with a 17 CON. They were applying a +3 HP bonus to each HD when, in fact, that +3 should only be applied to the Fighter HD and the other two classes get +2 per HD. The results were inflated at the outset and got worse as levels increased.

As far as I can tell from the consensus, I have been doing it acceptably since the start. 

Amusing to see the same arguments about Ranger and Monk (not) getting their CON bonus to both 1st level HD that we had back at the beginning.

vÍnce said:

Hi Chris,
There's some GREAT discussions on multi-class HP on the dragonsfoot forums(kind of my "go to" for 1e rules clarifications and more...)
Good thread on the topic here;
https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1823295&sid=73c8044c277f2e3b498552715f190240#p1823295

Still kicking around how best to track HP for multi-class characters.
It's difficult to find the best, logical way to present all the necessary fields for editing...

Here's my latest "class matrix".

btw: this is a collapsible sub-section of the sheet that will probably be hidden except for leveling up.
%hp could be used to track any left over fractional hp from leveling.
Tracked HP is a vertically resizable textarea field which can be used to calculate and track each level of hp. I've included a field for each class.  The could easily be much bigger and hidden by default as well.  Or maybe remove the three separate fields and include one large text field for notes at the bottom?
The TOTAL at the bottom is all class hp after its been properly calculated per class per level-up plus any remainder fractional hp. A rounded version of this total would represent hitpoints_max, which is the actual HP of the character.
Layout first, so nothing in this section is being calculated by the sheet at this point. 

I think adding an additional Save row, that can be re-named by the players, should help cover fringe cases like a racial or item adj that only affects one sub-type of a save.  I could add even a few more if you think it's benefit out-weighs sheet real-estate...? I could make them hidden by default as well. ;-)

Love the work you are doing, Vince. Thank you. There is a limit to how much you can add in to the sheet to cover all the edge cases.

In OSRIC, this table approach deals with the separate Poison Save for Dwarves, Gnomes, and Halflings. Druids get a bonus against Fire and Lightning attacks and can use the same row. A Halfling Druid would need two extra Save rows, of course - LOL

As of the last official update (v1.58), using a negative adjustment value in the Mental Save field (WIS stat) still makes the die roll result in a "1" all the time. The die-roll code seems to be using the entered adjustment value as the target number instead of applying the adjustment to the roll.

Chris A. said:

As of the last official update (v1.58), using a negative adjustment value in the Mental Save field (WIS stat) still makes the die roll result in a "1" all the time. The die-roll code seems to be using the entered adjustment value as the target number instead of applying the adjustment to the roll.

I've tossed the current(v1.58) Mental save out the window.  We will have a new save that works.  Currently I've put a prompt that asks "Type of save?" which will use that saves base, then add wis adj. (if any...) to the roll. Works like the other saves.

Chris A. said:

Love the work you are doing, Vince. Thank you. There is a limit to how much you can add in to the sheet to cover all the edge cases.

In OSRIC, this table approach deals with the separate Poison Save for Dwarves, Gnomes, and Halflings. Druids get a bonus against Fire and Lightning attacks and can use the same row. A Halfling Druid would need two extra Save rows, of course - LOL

So maybe a couple or three, "Custom" save rows would cover these types of cases? I could create a repeating section to cover everything, but I would rather not.

I've added a similar "Custom" row for Thief Skills as well...

You think this needs a "Misc." column as well?
Still need to work out what to actually do with the "vestigial" Backstab adj as well.

I was making a bit of a joke re: the two extra Save rows but, if you can find the space for them, I am not going to argue. An extra spare row could be used for the Elf and Half-Elf resistance to Sleep/Charm as well.

I believe there are a few magic items which can improve Thieving Skills, so a Misc column wouldn't be wasted. 

The backstab value is a multiplier for a special attack condition. The multiplier increases every X levels, and the PC could choose to perform the Backstab action with any one of several weapons at their disposal. I don't know of a simple way to incorporate the multiplier into an attack (aside from asking every time if the attack is a Backstab) that wouldn't become annoying in regular use. If people wanted to use the Backstab field just to record the value of the multiplier, and possibly create their own special macros to apply it to a specific weapon (or just to remind them what to adjust the total damage by after a successful attack), that's a perfectly valid way to go.

Hi, new to all this online character sheet stuff, I am putting together character sheets for my players ready for when they log on and I want to share the sheets with each relevant player and just them, also for them to see the sheet but not the bonuses for weapons. ie they see their Longsword but not that it is +2 or the other magical abilities. I have looked at changing the plusses but it doesn't then change the Thac0 display.  Is this possible without loads of coding bits as I am less than useless at that. Having read some stuff on here it has just confused me, I am a 30+yr P+P DM.

Hi Ossian,

welcome to roll20.  Once your players log in, they will show up in the games list of available players.  Then you can assign permissions to any given sheet and/or handout. https://wiki.roll20.net/Journal#Edit  Give specific player's control of a given sheet with the "Can be Edited Controlled by" field. FYI: Players with only view permission("In Player's Journals") will only be able to see and read the BIO page of the character.

As for hiding magical abilities of weapons; unfortunately I can't think of way to do this other than, you as a DM remembering to make a mental adjustment once the attack is made... The To Hit Matrix and the THAC0 tables only display what they are provided with and do no adjust the attack roll.  The attack roll uses whatever adjustments are on the sheet.  IME, most players figure out flat bonuses and AC soon after they start a combat. I do appreciate keeping enhancements/enchantments a mystery for as long as possible. Maybe someone else can share an alternative? Cheers

Just a reminder; I have been making progress on updating the 1e sheet.  You can see the latest(very much a wip) on the 1e beta game with more discussion on the game's forum. ;-)

vÍnce said:

Hi Ossian,

welcome to roll20.  Once your players log in, they will show up in the games list of available players.  Then you can assign permissions to any given sheet and/or handout. https://wiki.roll20.net/Journal#Edit  Give specific player's control of a given sheet with the "Can be Edited Controlled by" field. FYI: Players with only view permission("In Player's Journals") will only be able to see and read the BIO page of the character.

As for hiding magical abilities of weapons; unfortunately I can't think of way to do this other than, you as a DM remembering to make a mental adjustment once the attack is made... The To Hit Matrix and the THAC0 tables only display what they are provided with and do no adjust the attack roll.  The attack roll uses whatever adjustments are on the sheet.  IME, most players figure out flat bonuses and AC soon after they start a combat. I do appreciate keeping enhancements/enchantments a mystery for as long as possible. Maybe someone else can share an alternative? Cheers

Thanks, I thought that might be the case but wanted to be sure. I will check out the update (1e beta game).

I was curious on when the release of the 1.58 character sheet would be?  I'm a Plus user and am really keen for the Monster/NPC stat block.

Trey H. said:

I was curious on when the release of the 1.58 character sheet would be?  I'm a Plus user and am really keen for the Monster/NPC stat block.

Soon™
I've been working on this off/on over the last few months life willing...  If you jump in the test game you'll see what's been done so far.  There's some discussion in the game's forum and I'm always curious to get feedback.

I just found this thread. I have recently restarted a 1E campaign and look forward to the changes. I joined the beta and it looks great. I hope we can fined some way of running a script to pull in all the monsters I need. Thanks for all your work it is appreciated.

Just viewed the proposed character sheet.

I couldn't find the 'weapon speed' field for each weapon.

I use the field for melee initiative rolls. Loss of the field would crash the API.

Hi SW,

on my phone ATM... but I think I moved weapon speed to the repeating attack's sub-section. I'll double check once I get home.

Just keeping this alive. I have been making more progress in beta (time willing).  If you join the test game, feel free to check the in-game forum as well for on going discussion related to the latest updates.  Feedback is always welcome.

Erik O. said:

Omg these look great! I know it’s not cannon, but can we option d6 or d10 for initiative?

Would love that also

Hello thank you much for the sheets and updates. Wondering if it would be possible to have the Comeliness attribute be in the drop down to use as an ability for secondary skills? We use it in game for a "Perception" type role, but I can see other things being impacted if that stat is used.

Krista K. said:

Erik O. said:

Omg these look great! I know it’s not cannon, but can we option d6 or d10 for initiative?

Would love that also

The Surprise and Initiative die, as well as the macro-text used for their rolls can be customized in the settings area. ;-)

Krista K. said:

Hello thank you much for the sheets and updates. Wondering if it would be possible to have the Comeliness attribute be in the drop down to use as an ability for secondary skills? We use it in game for a "Perception" type role, but I can see other things being impacted if that stat is used.

Certainly.

vÍnce said:

Just a reminder; I have been making progress on updating the 1e sheet.  You can see the latest(very much a wip) on the 1e beta game with more discussion on the game's forum. ;-)

Be sure to check out the latest beta.  Thanks

vÍnce said:

Krista K. said:

Hello thank you much for the sheets and updates. Wondering if it would be possible to have the Comeliness attribute be in the drop down to use as an ability for secondary skills? We use it in game for a "Perception" type role, but I can see other things being impacted if that stat is used.

Certainly.

Wow thank you. I am no programmer but have started to understand the use of some macros the stuff you guys pull off with these sheets is so great to improve game play. Thanks.