Roll20 uses cookies to improve your experience on our site. Cookies enable you to enjoy certain features, social sharing functionality, and tailor message and display ads to your interests on our site and others. They also help us understand how our site is being used. By continuing to use our site, you consent to our use of cookies. Update your cookie preferences .
×
Create a free account
This post has been closed. You can still view previous posts, but you can't post any new replies.

Suggestions for combat?

Hello everyone! Happy Easter! I am a DM for my group of friends. We love to play Pathfinder and DnD and we use Roll20 when we either can't meet in person or the weather is bad. However, I would say the most stressful and drawn out part of the game are the combat encounters. I usually take no time at all to play the NPC's/creatures because of Macros, but my players take forever during their turns. Any suggestions that I can suggest to them so they can maybe speed up the pace of their turn so some players do not fall asleep or worse leave the session because they are bored? I have tried suggesting: create macros and plan their turn ahead of time during another players turn.
1364764810
Gauss
Forum Champion
Moved to Off-topic. :) - Gauss
Put a timer on their turn to create a sense of urgency? Do you guys role play heavily?
My group had this problem too. Each turn was taking about 30 mins to complete and people were getting bored silly. We decided, as a group, that everyone would make macros for their attacks and most commonly used actions (stealth, diplomacy, etc.) and it sped things up DRAMATICALLY! Turns can sometimes fly by in 3-4 minutes minutes. Also, I tell players to be ready with their actions when their turn starts. Combat is fluid though and your actions may change based on those ahead of you in the turn order but it still helps out.
Any idea what's holding them up?  Are they having trouble deciding what to do?  Or maybe they need to reference the rules frequently?  It might be better to suss out the root cause and deal with that.  If it's simply that they have to type everything in, Mark S.'s suggestion is a really, really good one.  It can also help if they're slow on deciding since they can just hit a button if they can't make up their minds. You could try having them describe what they want to do first and then either tell them what to roll or have them figure it out on their own.  My group tends to be pretty relaxed with the rules, though, so this works well for us -- especially with my one player who's still learning the rules.
1364773507
Pat S.
Forum Champion
Sheet Author
my group uses voice chat for ooc and rule talk while the text is used for in game use. usually if someone has a rules problem we can hash it out pretty fast over the voice chat. Step one is generally like Sarah says, find out what the root problem is and solve it.
@Gauss: Thank you for putting this on the right board. I was unsure where to post this. @Voth: I have tried this and they all just complain and get very upset with me. @Mark: That is a great idea and I will urge all of my players to do this. Only one of them utilizes the Macros and I applaud him every time. @Sarah: All of my players usually know what to do but, they get off topic easily and sometimes they argue which distracts the other players. One of my players is a Monk that specializes in Grappling so he is constantly looking up the grappling rules so he isn't doing anything incorrectly. (I don't blame him) I will try your suggestion as well. @Metroknight: I use the text for role playing if they are uncomfortable saying it out loud and the voice chat is used for rule talk and such as well. What if some players are against using the Macros? Also If I did give them a time limit what would be a good time for their turn to last? Sorry for asking multiple questions again.
I gotta agree with the other players here, macros speed up the game immensely. Just having a basic attack macro that rolls your attack and damage in one go will do wonders. Other things... Use the visible initiative tracker so everyone can see who's "next", and get ready accordingly.  I'd say 30 seconds to one minute should be plenty of time to decide on an action, but I'd give the player plenty of time (5 minutes plus) to actually perform it. Not everyone has the same system mastery and it can take a little while to go over the spell description / grapple flow chart / additional burst damage on a crit, and so on. Edit: It should also be noted that every player who is not on the microphone when its their turn to act, loses their turn.
I've also seen this happen before... It can be frustrating, even as a player. Macros definitely help quite a bit, but here's some general GMing advice that isn't Roll20 specific: - With every turn completed I sometimes announce whose turn is coming up one turn in advance, so the player can get their brains going if they got distracted for whatever reason. - If they take too long or are having trouble deciding what to do I usually just delay their turn later into round. This way you're not totally punishing the player and have them miss out on their turn, and combat still moves forward. - To help keep players involved mentally in the game I dress up combat with nice descriptions and interesting visuals for them to imagine. Instead of plainly saying to the fighter, "you hit", I turn it into, "Your maul caves into his chest cavity with so much force, dust kicks up from the ground in its wake." These nice little imaginary embellishments can help players stay glued to the action, whether consciously or subconsciously. - Lastly, have a civil open conversation with your players about this issue. Any player even worth your time would be understanding—it's your game after all!
Neil C. said: I have tried suggesting: create macros and plan their turn ahead of time during another players turn. This actually should work as long as they are willing to do those things. If not say that they are being babies and rage quit :) Seriously this is exactly what I did and it's getting better all the time as my players are slowly creating macros for the most used rolls.
I defintely agree w/ Oliver above. In D&D, what level are your players?  I will not run another game past heroic tier simply b/c combat slows dramatically...there's so much a player can do that figuring out the best action can take a while. Other than that though, here are my suggestions for speeding up combat: If you have a player stopping to look up a rule, politely ask the player if he/she would mind delaying his/her action until they've decided what to do or how to do it.  Players generally won't want to do this, but you can gently frame it in the context of delaying the combat scene. If you've got a lot of player talk, it can just mean that people enjoy each others' company which is a good thing.  Try keeping tension high in combat scenes to focus players' attention.  Give the enemies their own goals (other than killing the heroes) like maybe they're trying to burn a town to the ground, kidnapping townsfolk, etc.  Make it something the enemies can actually achieve (when they reach this location, the building is burned, or they escape with the kidnapped person) so that they can actually succeed.  Now you've got an interesting encounter that involves combat but is about more to the players. I would reserve the voice chat for the actual play and action declarations, and use the text chat for rolls, rules clarifications, etc. that don't need to be addressed immediately.  That way if you notice a rules discussion going in circles, you can make a quick ruling and it doesn't interrupt the play. Depending on the number of players and level, combat can only go so fast.  I think your best bet is to make sure the combat is as fun and interesting as possible rather than trying to speed it up too much. Hope this is helpful.
30 minutes a turn?  I've played tabletop DnD for years and we never had combats take quite that long!  A couple of suggestions: 1.   Especially  with newer players, start at low level!  I've seen this mistake with other DMs where they want to "show how cool" the game is and start at 12th level or something.  A 12th level character has quite a few more options than a 1st level character.  If the player has actually been using that character to 12th level, they've gotten used to the majority of their abilities through weeks or months of gaming.  When someone has to go through all the options, especially spellcasters in the case of Pathfinder or just about anyone if 4e DnD, it can take a long time.  You can make a game "epic" with low level characters and honestly DnD games tend to be balanced a bit better from the 1-10 range. 2.  Know the rules.  As the DM it really helps if you are as familiar as you can be with all the rules.  It's OK to have to look something up that is uncommon (grappling, swimming, flying, effects of cold weather, etc.) but you should have a general idea of the rule and where it is.  As the DM you should understand combat rules forwards and backwards.  If a player is taking a long time trying to figure out what to do, ask them what they're trying to accomplish, and then translate it into rules for them. I recently played a one-off Pathfinder game with my wife and a friend using the Crow's Nest Island adventure.  My wife had never played Pathfinder or any tabletop roleplaying game before.  My friend has been playing almost as long as I have.  He was able to act a bit quicker in combat but for them most part the fact that she didn't know the rules or her character (I gave her the fighter just to make it easier...) didn't matter.  I had her describe generally what she wanted to try, gave her a couple of options and how to do them, told her what to roll, and she had a great time having never opened a single Pathfinder book.  The rules should be a facilitator to your game...if they're slowing you down or holding you back, it may be worth just changing them to be easier! 3.  Roll20 specific: It may be worth just making macros for your players.  Go into their character sheets, create abilities that use their common rolls, and have them use those.  They can add them to their macro bar just like other macros (I almost never use the standard macros for character abilities).  It's kind of the easy way out but it gets the job done.  One advantage is it gives them sample macros; they can copy and modify your macros to make their own.  Sometimes it's a little bit easier (especially if you aren't used to programming or syntax) to see an example rather than trying to make one from scratch. Keep in mind that players can enter your campaign without you there.  Consider making a "test" map with player tokens and nothing else.  At the end of your session move the players there.  That way between sessions they can log in and "play" with their character, testing macros and rolls, saving time during your actual sessions.  Just remember to put a "The session ends!" and "The session begins!" (or whatever) statement in the chat log, via an emote or whatever, so you don't get confused when there's a bunch of die rolls you don't remember =). 4.  Roll20 specific: Finally, make sure you're using all of Roll20's extra tools to help speed up combat.  For DnD-style games I use Bar 1 for HP, Bar 2 for AC, and Bar 3 for counters/timers.  For flanking I use the ruler to see if it draws a line through the token.  Your players should never be confused about what a particular ability or action is going to do (or has potential to do). 5.  Finally, and this is up to GM preference, I encourage players to discuss combat OOC.  Sure, it's not the most realistic (you don't exactly have the ability to discuss battle tactics in 6 seconds during the heat of battle!) but I feel it helps keep players who aren't currently on their action engaged.  If the next player in the turn order is discussing the current player's strategy they are more likely to already be thinking of how their turn will compliment that action.  I just justify it in the context of a "team" of heroes...real heroes wouldn't have to think for 30 minutes about what to do with their action and would have practice fighting together.  The tactics are "plays" that the team would already know...the players are the ones holding them back! If players are taking too long to discuss the tactics, or spending too much time rule lawyering or agonizing over crazy plans, make a judgement call and step in.  I like to give players feedback on their discussions.  When a player mentions "I'm thinking about doing this..." I tell them "You can do that, it could cause this..."  I think about what a character would probably know and give feedback to the player.  As an example, I once had a level 5 rogue player decided she wanted to charge a troll in the first round of combat.  I told her that it was probably a bad idea...the troll was big and scary, and her character was more of a stealthy, stab-in-the-back type of character, but she wanted to do it anyway to get the flat-footed sneak attack.  She charged the troll, got her sneak attack, the troll attacked back, critted and got full rend damage, and instantly killed her.  Did it suck?  Yeah.  She wasn't happy when I made her reroll her character.  But she never charged trolls in leather armor again, and couldn't say I didn't warn her. Hope that helps, and good luck!
I will PM you a solution, well that is what we do... too much to discuss here, and kind of pressed for time. But I think I can help... might not be for you, what I suggest, but you can decide that and test it in a new scenario based just for combat. More to follow. Suffice to say, we have a very good system, and although can be bloody, is VERY time saving. Our combats might run 12 rounds BUT, that all depends on how many enemies and how many characters. A 2 character vs 8 enemy situation might only take 5 minutes tops...
Macros are nice, but its also totally possible to just play Pathinder with one macro:  "/r 1d20".  The game moves faster when all the players and GM know what their bonuses are and where they come from.  I encourage manual math, and learning the system, which really helps speed things up.  Player:  "I attack the ogre"   GM: "Okay, roll attack and damage" Player:  roll 1d20 - result 12. "With my +6 attack bonus, thats a total of 18, do I hit?"  GM:  Looks at monster stat.  "Yep, 18 hits. Are you going to take your move action?" Granted this gets a bit more complicated with situation bonuses and conditions, but if all the players know those rules, it gets moving pretty fast.