Dynamic Lighting causing Translucent tokens for non-controlling players

I've seen some other threads on this, but none that exactly match what I am experiencing.

With:

• Dynamic Lighting On
• Token Vision On
• Tokens double-checked to be on token layer

Result:

Tokens that represent characters that a player cannot control appear faded and are translucent.

I've tested as GM and as a player, and it is consistent. If I have control, the token is sharp and opaque. If I do not have control (ie, listed in the token's "Controlled by" field), the token is translucent.

This is not an issue for me as a GM, as I "control" every character. But for my players the entirety of the characters except their single token are translucent and hard to see.

The threads I've read are all over a year old, so I am hoping someone has figured this out?

The GM experience is exactly as you have described. You've got the fix in place, but I have always felt this to be a workaround.

The translucent token experience for players is likely a consequence of an interaction between Night Vision and Explorer mode. As vision fades into darkness, explorer mode fills in with the grayed out no-token view, as expected. However, a consequence of this is that as explorer mode increases in visibility, tokens begin to look faded out. It's technically the way it should work, but I agree, it is jarring. I mean, it does make tokens at the edge of sight harder to see, as it should, but the viewer does not expect them to look transparent. The alternative would be for tokens and vision to both slowly darken together, and at the very limit of vision, Explorer mode view would abruptly begin, which would also be counterintuitive.

As I explain this, a solution occurred to me, and I just tested it. In order to avoid washed out PC tokens, have every PC token emit 0 feet of light. Not blank, but the number zero. It illuminates the token only. All PCs can clearly see all PCs. NPCs (or any non-light emitting token) would still fade to transparency as light/vision decreases (which can be argued to be a useful and immersive thing—creatures in near darkness should be hard to see), but this would solve the problem of PCs keeping track of each other. Of course any token actually emitting significant light (say for a torch) wouldn't have this problem anyway.

Another option would be to not use Explorer mode, and instead use Light Crumbs, which is what I used to do with LDL, but for different reasons. However, I think understanding the reasons for the transparency goes a long way towards accepting it as a lighting paradigm.

Screen shot of my test. Reeza (top center) is PC and represents the player. Mrs Gnoll to lower right is an NPC in dim light brightened to bright by Reeza's nightvision and Nocturnal mode. Mr. Gnoll to left is transparent because Reeza doesn't have enough sight/light so Explorer Mode is filling in. The elf in the lower left is another PC with 0 ft of bright light so that Reeza's player knows where the other player character is.

Nice work, keithcurtis!

Perhaps that should go in the Roll20 Tip and Tricks post too?

It should certainly go into the Dynamic Lighting Tips and Tricks. I'm going to experiment a little more and see if I can get dev corroboration that my interpretation is correct.

Thanks for the suggestion about giving the pcs a 0 light source, that helps a bit.

But I still have a really big issue with the npcs (who, obviously, can't all be glowing).

Here's a screenshot to illustrate the issue. You will see that all four of the baddies are equally faded and translucent, despite the fact that they are all within the "bright" range of the torch on the south wall. The map itself is faded. When one baddie steps inside the 5' ring of light I gave the pc, you can see the actual saturation level of the token. You can also see the proper saturation level of the map within that 5' ring. So, why on earth aren't the other tokens the same, visually? They are all within the sight range of the pc, they are all lit by a bright light lantern?

Ah, I am tracking down more repro steps. This only occurs with colored lights. If the light is translucent, the icons appear correct. 

Same scene, only change is the lantern has been changed from white to translucent light.

Not sure what's going on there at all. If that light source is emitting 30' of bright light, the entire room should be brightly lit. Is this a PC view? I.e. is this the view while logged in as a PC who is the controller of that token? Not viewing through Ctrl-L?

Edit: Your second post cleared up the issue. I do NOT recommend tinted light or vision, save in extreme moderation.

Ah, yes. I should have thought of that. Don't use tinted lights or vision. They don't really do what people logically expect them to do. If you really really need tinted light, it's best to use just one. They mix very unintuitively.

Here's a graphic I threw together to explain what Explorer Mode does in the player view. It should demonstrate the reason for the perceived "transparency" of some tokens:

keithcurtis said:

Ah, yes. I should have thought of that. Don't use tinted lights or vision. They don't really do what people logically expect them to do. If you really really need tinted light, it's best to use just one. They mix very unintuitively.

Easy enough to take them out/switch to translucent lights, but isn't it strange that they affect token translucency as well as hue? They shouldn't, should they?

My hope was to avoid baking light color into the map image (what if someone puts out the light!).

I have experimented in Photoshop and I cannot duplicate the mixing mode used by Roll20. I've given up and just don't use them. If it's really important, I might use one tinted light in a particular area (There's a room in the Sunken Citadel module with a red light), but that's the limit. I try not to allow them to mix.

keithcurtis said:

I have experimented in Photoshop and I cannot duplicate the mixing mode used by Roll20. I've given up and just don't use them. If it's really important, I might use one tinted light in a particular area (There's a room in the Sunken Citadel module with a red light), but that's the limit. I try not to allow them to mix.

Thanks for your help!