New Token Saving causes Token to shrink half size...

EDIT TLDR: Editing my first post for anyone, like me, too lazy to read... The Token resizing was apparently caused by the map grid scale setup at a value other than 1:1. {Been told it was intended to work this way} Dynamic lightning was a massive brain fart on my part, having struggled wayyy too much over the new "bug-tionalities". Token not updating properly was a thing, Roll20 said they have fixed it but I've tested it over the last ~90m or so and it's not fixed at 100%. Now when I try to drop a blank token with the sheet Avatar as token art as I used to be able to, after removing a wonky Token, I get a random blue generic token that keep its default settings, including it's size. {Been told it was intended to work this way} P.S.: Trying to access the formatting menu while editing is still giving me some weird transparent BS that I can't read, so enjoy the sub-par formatting -.- Sooo... I've asked a GM I'm playing in a game with if he could create sheets for my familiar and an unseen servant spell, to test the new functionalities on the player size. I've edited the NPC stats for both NPC's, then I've added arts for both the Art and Token section of the edit page. There was no edit token values button, so I've dropped the token from the journal on an Hex map and saved it. Still no edit token button on the sheet edit page, so I edited the token on the map and saved it again. When I next dropped the token on the same Hex map, the token had shrunk half size. I was curious so I saved the token to the shrunk one. Dropped on the same map again, and it had shrunk by half yet again... O.O This is completely Roll20 lmao -.- On the NPC sheet the token size remained at "1" every step of the way.

Ok, to clarify:  What are the settings of the map? Map settings have always had a bad interaction with the token size defaults.  Edit: I was not able to reproduce this unless the cell size is set to anything other than 1. This bug has existed for a long time.  To avoid this bug a ll tokens should be sized on a "1" cell size map. 

Gauss said: Ok, to clarify:  What are the settings of the map? Map settings have always had a bad interaction with the token size defaults.  Edit: I was not able to reproduce this unless the cell size is set to less than 1. This bug has existed for a long time.  To avoid this bug a ll tokens should be sized on a "1" cell size map.  Good question tbh, I'm a player in that game and the GM is at work for the rest of the day... I checked with the in-VTT ruler and every Hex is 5'. So I assume the grid is 1 = 5'. I'll know more later or more likely tomorow. Have you tried a "1" sized Hex map? EDIT: The map used as art for that map shows Hexes, but the actual grid of the VTT is Square.

Also, like I said I'm a player in that game. Have you tried to reproduce that bug as a player in someone else's game?

Went to one of my game, created a sheet and gave myself rights to it. Logged back as a player (in my own game) and couldn't reproduce that bug...

I went to the second game where I'm a player, and wasn't able to reproduce that bug either... Although, I was also unable to update my token to my sheet. I was unable to "remove" the token from my sheet. But my token lost all rights/ability to see through the dynamic lightning... I'm seriously wayyy too old for all those weird bugs lawl -.-

Neo said: Gauss said: Ok, to clarify:  What are the settings of the map? Map settings have always had a bad interaction with the token size defaults.  Edit: I was not able to reproduce this unless the cell size is set to less than 1. This bug has existed for a long time.  To avoid this bug a ll tokens should be sized on a "1" cell size map.  Good question tbh, I'm a player in that game and the GM is at work for the rest of the day... I checked with the in-VTT ruler and every Hex is 5'. So I assume the grid is 1 = 5'. I'll know more later or more likely tomorow. Have you tried a "1" sized Hex map? EDIT: The map used as art for that map shows Hexes, but the actual grid of the VTT is Square. The grid can be set to a cell size of 0.5 and still be 5' per grid hex.  The bug is confirmed, has been in existence for a LONG time. It is just dependent on a cell size other than "1". Most maps are set to "1".

And a Cell size of 0.5 would still show as 1sq = 5' when using the ruler?

Neo said: And a Cell size of 0.5 would still show as 1sq = 5' when using the ruler? Yup, "Grid Cell Distance" covers the ruler measurement, not "Cell Width" For example: if I wanted half size grid squares but it takes two grid squares to equal 5 feet then I would set Cell Width to 0.5 and Grid Cell Distance to 2.5 feet. (Note: I might do this in the case of a lot of tiny creatures in a D&D battle.)

Alright, I'll ask the GM later/tomorrow... And just for the lulz, try playing with the new toke "features" as a player on a map with Dynamic lightning enabled...

The grid scale that Gauss is talking about specifies how many pixels there are in the grid unit at 100% zoom.&nbsp; On a square grid, 70px is the default grid cell size/scale.&nbsp; If you set that to .5, that changes the pixel count to 35.&nbsp; If you aren't on the default scale when setting up tokens, that can cause issues down the line.&nbsp; There are a bunch of screenshots on how this affects tokens that are set up at .5, 1, and 2 grid scale in the Token Setup Map post in the Roll20 Tricks thread: <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9968261/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9968261/</a>

The GM in the game I'm in, where the token shrunk, moved the player to a map setup at 1=1. Managed to update my character's token without any issue, so I'll assume it was that old bug that has still haven't been taken care of... -.- The two token that shrunk are stuck being shrunk until the GM deletes them.

In the other game I am in, my token still can't "see" through dynamic lightning since I've updated it yesterday o.O

Neo said: In the other game I am in, my token still can't "see" through dynamic lightning since I've updated it yesterday o.O Token's DL settings? Page's DL settings? Do you have Permanent Darkness turned on?

Gauss said: Neo said: In the other game I am in, my token still can't "see" through dynamic lightning since I've updated it yesterday o.O Token's DL settings? Page's DL settings? Do you have Permanent Darkness turned on? I am also a player in that other game. My token was giving me visibility in a room, and as soon as I started updating my token, it lost the ability to "see". I can't tell if it happened when I "updated" the token or when I "removed" it. I was focused on testing token size -.- I know nothing about dynamic lightning, I have never used it as a GM. EDIT1: What my token unlocked during our last game Sunday night, I can still see (slightly greyed out), but all the other token I was able to see moments before messing with the token, they don't show up anymore. I hope that make sense. EDIT2: Like I can see half the token of a Kobold that lies halfway inside and outside of the room where dynamic lightning is active.

Neo said: I am also a player in that other game. My token was giving me visibility in a room, and as soon as I started updating my token, it lost the ability to "see". I can't tell if it happened when I "updated" the token or when I "removed" it. I was focused on testing token size -.- I know nothing about dynamic lightning, I have never used it as a GM. EDIT1: What my token unlocked during our last game Sunday night, I can still see (slightly greyed out), but all the other token I was able to see moments before messing with the token, they don't show up anymore. I hope that make sense. EDIT2: Like I can see half the token of a Kobold that lies halfway inside and outside of the room where dynamic lightning is active. I would start by asking your GM to check the settings, that should be the first step to troubleshooting this.&nbsp; If after checking the settings you and your GM cannot resolve it please have the GM come post so we can troubleshoot the issue.

Gauss said: Neo said: I am also a player in that other game. My token was giving me visibility in a room, and as soon as I started updating my token, it lost the ability to "see". I can't tell if it happened when I "updated" the token or when I "removed" it. I was focused on testing token size -.- I know nothing about dynamic lightning, I have never used it as a GM. EDIT1: What my token unlocked during our last game Sunday night, I can still see (slightly greyed out), but all the other token I was able to see moments before messing with the token, they don't show up anymore. I hope that make sense. EDIT2: Like I can see half the token of a Kobold that lies halfway inside and outside of the room where dynamic lightning is active. I would start by asking your GM to check the settings, that should be the first step to troubleshooting this.&nbsp; If after checking the settings you and your GM cannot resolve it please have the GM come post so we can troubleshoot the issue. Dragged a torch every player has access to in that room, and I can now see. I assume the map dynamic lightning are still working... But the new player token "functionality" actually breaks token's dynamic lightning settings -.- EDIT: Was tring to DM you both SS, but for some reason Roll20 doesn't allow SS today?!? o.O

Neo said: Dragged a torch every player has access to in that room, and I can now see. I assume the map dynamic lightning are still working... But the new player token "functionality" actually breaks token's dynamic lightning settings -.- EDIT: Was tring to DM you both SS, but for some reason Roll20 doesn't allow SS today?!? o.O My guess, you need to have your DL settings assigned to your token by your GM. If you have reproduction steps on how the new token functionality breaks the existing DL settings please let us know.&nbsp;

Gauss said: Neo said: Dragged a torch every player has access to in that room, and I can now see. I assume the map dynamic lightning are still working... But the new player token "functionality" actually breaks token's dynamic lightning settings -.- EDIT: Was tring to DM you both SS, but for some reason Roll20 doesn't allow SS today?!? o.O My guess, you need to have your DL settings assigned to your token by your GM. If you have reproduction steps on how the new token functionality breaks the existing DL settings please let us know.&nbsp; Takes a deep breath The dynamic lightning of my token was working properly. I updated the Bar 1 / Bar 2 / Bar 3 numbers in the "Tokens Settings". I opened the character sheet's editing and clicked "Use Selected Token" (with the token selected), then "Save Changes". Dragged a new token for my character from the Journal, to see if it shrunk (it didn't). Re-opened the character sheet's edit page, clicked "Remove" under "Default Token (Optional)", then "Save Changes". Dragged a new token for my character from the Journal, again. Changes I had made at #2 were gone, because some other bugs... Selected my token again, I opened the character sheet's editing and clicked "Use Selected Token" (with the token selected), then "Save Changes". Dragged a new token for my character from the Journal, yet again. EDIT: ~30m ago I've dropped a "Torch" token I have control over to confirm it was my character's token that had lost its dynamic lightning settings somewhere along the way. In between some of these steps I tabbed back to the forums on Roll20. Leaving the game open, so I could tab back to it without having to reload each time. I'm not getting paid for any of this stuff so I get extremely bored and annoyed, very easily.&nbsp; So when I realised the whole room where my token was in went black, I assumed another bug so I closed Chrome and got busy with something else. This morning I went back to it, to confirm it was still bugged out, it was. I ended up face-palming myself sooo hard, I passed out... When I came to, I jumped back on the forums to talk about it -.- Of course I went to the bathroom and took a shit, if memory serves me right, but I opted to leave that part out of the things I've done yesterday while testing the new token bug-tionalities. EDIT2: If there is something else that I have missed, I honestly can't remember. It's really hard to figure out bugs when everything keep bugging out. For me anyway -.- EDIT3: Come to think of it, I might have deleted a Torch token my character was carrying while deleting copies of my character's tokens. I'll confirm with the GM the settings are still setup properly on my character's tokens... One thing tho, the numbers I was setting up were not saving to the sheet properly -.-

I don't think some of those issues are bugs. Rather they are just a misunderstanding of where/how settings are saved, and how sight works with explorer mode (which I think is on for that particular map). In the past, when you deleted a token from the character sheet, that removed all settings as far as the sheet is concerned, because the character sheet holds no token settings.&nbsp; The token that held those settings no longer exists as far as the sheet is concerned.&nbsp; When you remove a token and then add a different one, the sight and lighting settings of the old one are gone. This has not changed, so this is normal behavior. In the past, when you select a new image/token and save it as the default for a character sheet, it does so without any lighting settings that existed on a previous token.&nbsp; This is a NEW token, so it won't have anything that isn't set as a campaign default for tokens. If the token you select is one that was previously in use, such as one that had all the correct settings and was on the vtt after you replaced it on the sheet with a different image/token, then it will retain the vision settings if it is added to the sheet again.&nbsp; This assumes that it remained on the vtt, since it would become a basic image again if it was deleted and then brought out of the art library again.&nbsp; Images in the art library do not retain any settings from the vtt.&nbsp; This has not changed, so is normal behavior. From the sounds of things, you now have a token that emits no light, has no form of dark/night vision, and may not have vision turned on at all (though I think you probably do as part of a campaign default setting for tokens, otherwise you probably wouldn't be able to see your token on the vtt).&nbsp; However, the map sounds like it has explorer mode turned on, which means that anything you previously saw on the map is revealed with sort of a grayscale overlay.&nbsp; Since the parts of the map explored that way are saved by account instead of by token in my experience, you will still see that even if your token currently has no vision (though in my testing you wouldn't see your token if it had no vision). Explorer mode does not allow you to view tokens on any part of the revealed map that you can't currently see, so other tokens vanishing sounds normal.&nbsp; In fact, if what you see is a result of explorer mode, you would still be able to see that portion of the map if you have no token on the map at all.&nbsp; I don't think I have ever tested explorer mode behavior in that way before, but that is how it works now.&nbsp;

After triple checking everything, looks like the token resizing was because of that old bug with map grid other than 1:1. And dynamic lightning was a brain fart on my part after struggling sooo many hours with all those brand new bugs... -.- Not being able to update token properly was a thing though, and wasn't fixed properly ~30m ago before I went to the bathroom (yea, I do hat at least once a day). The "Show" toggle for the "Tooltip" for example, didn't save properly to the updated token, "set as default" it's called now I believe? Anyhow, that's someone else's beast to tame. What I have found an hour ago, is that the Pre-Gen character from Phandelver (Cleric) I have transmogrified to my main campaign a while back, I clicked to "Remove" the token from "Default Token (Optional)". Now when I try to drop it from the journal to create a new "Blank" token with the Avatar art, it keeps dropping some sort of blue generic token with no art, but with all the "Default Token" settings intact. Before the update I used to delete token and drop from the journal to redo a token from scratch if I ended up messing up, usually faster for me than try to find whatever I might have forgotten about. But now, I'm stuck with a pre-gen character without token art, because the new update forces a generic blue token instead of giving me a token with the Avatar art like it used to. AND even though I own the proper module on Roll20, I don't have access to it's content in the art library -.-

Just to clarify, the token size setup is less a bug, and more "the way it works". The documented procedure is to set up a default token on a 1:1 page. That way, all non-1:1 setups, as well as tokens coming in from the Compendium or the Marketplace have a common base reference to work off of. If you set up a default token on a standard scale page, they should drag in to other pages while obeying the scaling rules.

Neo said: What I have found an hour ago, is that the Pre-Gen character from Phandelver (Cleric) I have transmogrified to my main campaign a while back, I clicked to "Remove" the token from "Default Token (Optional)". Now when I try to drop it from the journal to create a new "Blank" token with the Avatar art, it keeps dropping some sort of blue generic token with no art, but with all the "Default Token" settings intact. Before the update I used to delete token and drop from the journal to redo a token from scratch if I ended up messing up, usually faster for me than try to find whatever I might have forgotten about. But now, I'm stuck with a pre-gen character without token art, because the new update forces a generic blue token instead of giving me a token with the Avatar art like it used to. AND even though I own the proper module on Roll20, I don't have access to it's content in the art library -.- (Bolding mine) That is the new behavior and it is correct and proper (and AWESOME!!). This change allows players and GMs to change a token's image without losing all the token settings and forcing the GM to set up a token from scratch all over again.&nbsp; This really needs a lot more emphasis in the Dev notes for the release.&nbsp; If you are looking to change the token's image, do NOT remove it. Just drag a new image onto the "Default Token" in the Character's edit page.&nbsp; To reiterate: replace the image, do not replace the token unless you are starting a token over from scratch!!!! Edit: I know this will not solve the Avatar as Token issue for pre-existing character sheets where you do not have the image in the art library. I will be letting the Devs know this is an area that needs work.

keithcurtis said: Just to clarify, the token size setup is less a bug, and more "the way it works". The documented procedure is to set up a default token on a 1:1 page. That way, all non-1:1 setups, as well as tokens coming in from the Compendium or the Marketplace have a common base reference to work off of. If you set up a default token on a standard scale page, they should drag in to other pages while obeying the scaling rules. You're saying token resizing over and over, getting increasingly smaller after every time you save them is something that's working as intended?!? Alright, I'll update my TLDR then... -.-

Gauss said: Neo said: What I have found an hour ago, is that the Pre-Gen character from Phandelver (Cleric) I have transmogrified to my main campaign a while back, I clicked to "Remove" the token from "Default Token (Optional)". Now when I try to drop it from the journal to create a new "Blank" token with the Avatar art, it keeps dropping some sort of blue generic token with no art, but with all the "Default Token" settings intact. Before the update I used to delete token and drop from the journal to redo a token from scratch if I ended up messing up, usually faster for me than try to find whatever I might have forgotten about. But now, I'm stuck with a pre-gen character without token art, because the new update forces a generic blue token instead of giving me a token with the Avatar art like it used to. AND even though I own the proper module on Roll20, I don't have access to it's content in the art library -.- (Bolding mine) That is the new behavior and it is correct and proper (and AWESOME!!). This change allows players and GMs to change a token's image without losing all the token settings and forcing the GM to set up a token from scratch all over again.&nbsp; This really needs a lot more emphasis in the Dev notes for the release.&nbsp; If you are looking to change the token's image, do NOT remove it. Just drag a new image onto the "Default Token" in the Character's edit page.&nbsp; To reiterate: replace the image, do not replace the token unless you are starting a token over from scratch!!!! Edit: I know this will not solve the Avatar as Token issue for pre-existing character sheets where you do not have the image in the art library. I will be letting the Devs know this is an area that needs work. Remember yesterday, when token updating was not working? I was trying to redo the token from scratch in a game where I'm the GM, but a GM can't even reset a sheet's token in his own game now... -.-

@Gauss @Keithcurtis Thanks for your time guys. I'm not known for my patience and when things keep bugging out I can get a little... Well, you know lol. Anyway, thank you.

Neo Remember yesterday, when token updating was not working? I was trying to redo the token from scratch in a game where I'm the GM, but a GM can't even reset a sheet's token in his own game now... -.- When you say you cannot reset the token what do you mean exactly? Or do you just mean the Avatar as described above? (Just want to make sure this is not a different issue.)

Neo said: keithcurtis said: Just to clarify, the token size setup is less a bug, and more "the way it works". The documented procedure is to set up a default token on a 1:1 page. That way, all non-1:1 setups, as well as tokens coming in from the Compendium or the Marketplace have a common base reference to work off of. If you set up a default token on a standard scale page, they should drag in to other pages while obeying the scaling rules. You're saying token resizing over and over, getting increasingly smaller after every time you save them is something that's working as intended?!? Alright, I'll update my TLDR then... -.- If you always save a token while it is set up on a 1:1 page, it won't get smaller and smaller. If you keep changing the page scale and resave the token on that page, then any number of things can happen. Set up default tokens on a 1:1 page.

Gauss said: Neo Remember yesterday, when token updating was not working? I was trying to redo the token from scratch in a game where I'm the GM, but a GM can't even reset a sheet's token in his own game now... -.- When you say you cannot reset the token what do you mean exactly? Or do you just mean the Avatar as described above? (Just want to make sure this is not a different issue.) Same issue, just multiple impacts on my quality of life. I used to be able to clear the Token entirely (as the GM of my own game), and I miss that very much... Knowing the layers can't remove/reset their token, if reassuring, to say the least. But as a GM in my own game(s), I should be able to completely erase / reset / remove / obliterate the token of any sheet without having to delete the sheet and start the whole PC / NPC from scratch -.- I should also have full access to the content I have purchased on Roll20 through the VTT's art library. I mean: Maps, Tokens, Handout Arts, etc... So I guess it's two different issues? o.O It's almost 1am and I'm half asleep :)

keithcurtis said: Neo said: keithcurtis said: Just to clarify, the token size setup is less a bug, and more "the way it works". The documented procedure is to set up a default token on a 1:1 page. That way, all non-1:1 setups, as well as tokens coming in from the Compendium or the Marketplace have a common base reference to work off of. If you set up a default token on a standard scale page, they should drag in to other pages while obeying the scaling rules. You're saying token resizing over and over, getting increasingly smaller after every time you save them is something that's working as intended?!? Alright, I'll update my TLDR then... -.- If you always save a token while it is set up on a 1:1 page, it won't get smaller and smaller. If you keep changing the page scale and resave the token on that page, then any number of things can happen. Set up default tokens on a 1:1 page. As a GM in my own game(s), I'll make sure to do that. But can you imagine how many times this is going to come up over the next few months?!? I mean, Players have no way to know what the map's grid is set as. I might be the first (or only one even?) over the last ~48h-ish, but imagine how EZ it will be for players to update their tokens in between game sessions, while the GM has the player tab set on a map with a different grid scale than 1:1, and Players having no way to know that. Personally I set my travel maps (overland?) with a grid scale which allows me to calculate the number of miles traveled. Try to set the Sword Coast map from WotC So that every Hex exactly fits a specific number of miles... I've tried, switched to changing the grid scale after a few days of struggle lmao. In any case, players have the ability to do so now, without knowing about the grid scale. I'll have to test tomorrow if a GM can resize a borken token and re-update it properly to it's sheet. But like I told Gauss, it's almost (now past) 1am for me, and I want to pass out.

Neo said: As a GM in my own game(s), I'll make sure to do that. But can you imagine how many times this is going to come up over the next few months?!? I mean, Players have no way to know what the map's grid is set as. I might be the first (or only one even?) over the last ~48h-ish, but imagine how EZ it will be for players to update their tokens in between game sessions, while the GM has the player tab set on a map with a different grid scale than 1:1, and Players having no way to know that. This isn't new, though it will may be new for players to have to think about.&nbsp; It has worked that way for as long as I have been here (as far as I know anyway), which is why I made that post I linked earlier in the Roll20 tricks thread.

Kraynic said: Neo said: As a GM in my own game(s), I'll make sure to do that. But can you imagine how many times this is going to come up over the next few months?!? I mean, Players have no way to know what the map's grid is set as. I might be the first (or only one even?) over the last ~48h-ish, but imagine how EZ it will be for players to update their tokens in between game sessions, while the GM has the player tab set on a map with a different grid scale than 1:1, and Players having no way to know that. This isn't new, though it will may be new for players to have to think about.&nbsp; It has worked that way for as long as I have been here (as far as I know anyway), which is why I made that post I linked earlier in the Roll20 tricks thread. Agreed, but this ancient bug (feature?, just how it is? whatever?) is going to put a big crimp in the new "players setting up their own tokens" system if the GM has things set up to something other than "1". I expect to see many more reports of this as this new token system gets more use.&nbsp;

From the player perspective, I can see a learning curve. Not sure how much can be done without significantly re-writing large amounts of code.

Neo &nbsp;said: Personally I set my travel maps (overland?) with a grid scale which allows me to calculate the number of miles traveled. Try to set the Sword Coast map from WotC So that every Hex exactly fits a specific number of miles... I've tried, switched to changing the grid scale after a few days of struggle lmao. I can help with that. I do conversion work and setting map scales is pretty routine by now. This macro should do the job: &amp;{template:default} {{name=New Map Scale}} {{New scale = [[round((?{what is the current grid scale|5} / ?{what is the measurement with the Ruler|100}) * ?{what is the measurement of the printed scale|100}*100)/100]]}} The prompts are answered like this: what is the current grid scale this is the default of 5 if it has not been set otherwise. what is the measurement of the printed scale This is the scale as shown on the map, from zero to the maximum value. what is the measurement with the Ruler This is the number returned by the measurement tool when you measure the same span as the printed scale. Be sure to hold down the alt/option key if you have not yet turned the grid off, to avoid snapping. The value returned by the macro in chat can be copied and pasted into the Grid Cell Distance field of the page setup. Be sure to choose the proper unit, and you may want to turn the grid off afterwards.

Neo said: Same issue, just multiple impacts on my quality of life. I used to be able to clear the Token entirely (as the GM of my own game), and I miss that very much... Knowing the layers can't remove/reset their token, if reassuring, to say the least. But as a GM in my own game(s), I should be able to completely erase / reset / remove / obliterate the token of any sheet without having to delete the sheet and start the whole PC / NPC from scratch -.- I should also have full access to the content I have purchased on Roll20 through the VTT's art library. I mean: Maps, Tokens, Handout Arts, etc... So I guess it's two different issues? o.O It's almost 1am and I'm half asleep :) Tokens are available as token packs, through the art library, and usually significantly more than are in the module. Roll20 token packs try to account for every piece of art that could be made into a token. Maps are available pre-set on pages or can be accessed through module handouts. All of the assets in a module are available within the module, and if you have a Pro Account can be transmogrified in from a copy. If you delete a default token from a character, then yeah, it's gone. You can pull a copy out of the Artpack and re-set it, but the better thing is not to delete a default token. I'm still having trouble understanding the need for a work flow where you delete a token and then need it back. Place the token on the VTT, edit it and then use that copy to define the new default. Or use the new interface to do a lot of that from within the editing panel. But don't delete a default token from a character sheet if you are just going to make a change (I think Gauss said this above). I'm probably misunderstanding your workflow, but it's difficult to see the reasoning behind it.

Gauss said: Kraynic said: Neo said: As a GM in my own game(s), I'll make sure to do that. But can you imagine how many times this is going to come up over the next few months?!? I mean, Players have no way to know what the map's grid is set as. I might be the first (or only one even?) over the last ~48h-ish, but imagine how EZ it will be for players to update their tokens in between game sessions, while the GM has the player tab set on a map with a different grid scale than 1:1, and Players having no way to know that. This isn't new, though it will may be new for players to have to think about.&nbsp; It has worked that way for as long as I have been here (as far as I know anyway), which is why I made that post I linked earlier in the Roll20 tricks thread. Agreed, but this ancient bug (feature?, just how it is? whatever?) is going to put a big crimp in the new "players setting up their own tokens" system if the GM has things set up to something other than "1". I expect to see many more reports of this as this new token system gets more use.&nbsp; Pretty much what I was trying to say, yea... It's not my problem anymore though -.-

keithcurtis said: Neo &nbsp;said: Personally I set my travel maps (overland?) with a grid scale which allows me to calculate the number of miles traveled. Try to set the Sword Coast map from WotC So that every Hex exactly fits a specific number of miles... I've tried, switched to changing the grid scale after a few days of struggle lmao. I can help with that. I do conversion work and setting map scales is pretty routine by now. This macro should do the job: &amp;{template:default} {{name=New Map Scale}} {{New scale = [[round((?{what is the current grid scale|5} / ?{what is the measurement with the Ruler|100}) * ?{what is the measurement of the printed scale|100}*100)/100]]}} The prompts are answered like this: what is the current grid scale this is the default of 5 if it has not been set otherwise. what is the measurement of the printed scale This is the scale as shown on the map, from zero to the maximum value. what is the measurement with the Ruler This is the number returned by the measurement tool when you measure the same span as the printed scale. Be sure to hold down the alt/option key if you have not yet turned the grid off, to avoid snapping. The value returned by the macro in chat can be copied and pasted into the Grid Cell Distance field of the page setup. Be sure to choose the proper unit, and you may want to turn the grid off afterwards. Wait, are you trying to teach me math because you believe I need help running basic math?!? Ohhh Keith my boy... You can be sooo cute in your own way sometimes lmao ^.^ I gave an example of maps that are most likely to benefit from an in-VTT feature, thus more likely to cause issues with the new changes to token. If the grid scale was not intended to be used by GM, Roll20 should just remove it altogether. As long as it's there, I'll assume it is intended to be used as GM. There is no amount of BSing that will convince me otherwise. By neglecting fixing bugs, Roll20 keeps making their website a bloody nightmare to use, pretending a bug is a feature with a fancy article isn't helping in any way. We can agree to disagree about it, I personally couldn't care less. I'm not the one killing my own business -.-

Gauss said: Agreed, but this ancient bug (feature?, just how it is? whatever?) is going to put a big crimp in the new "players setting up their own tokens" system if the GM has things set up to something other than "1". I expect to see many more reports of this as this new token system gets more use. Players can't set up their own tokens anyway.&nbsp; I mean, yes, they can set the image.&nbsp; Can they access settings for vision, shedding light, field of view, name plate visibility, bar attribute associations, bar size, bar location, etc., etc.?&nbsp; No, they can't as far as I can tell.&nbsp; Players can set an image, but they can't actually set up a token.&nbsp; That is still very definitely something the GM has to do.&nbsp; As far as whether the scaling behavior is a bug, limitation of the environment, or whatever, who knows?

keithcurtis said: Tokens are available as token packs, through the art library, and usually significantly more than are in the module. Roll20 token packs try to account for every piece of art that could be made into a token. Maps are available pre-set on pages or can be accessed through module handouts. All of the assets in a module are available within the module, and if you have a Pro Account can be transmogrified in from a copy. If you delete a default token from a character, then yeah, it's gone. You can pull a copy out of the Artpack and re-set it, but the better thing is not to delete a default token. I'm still having trouble understanding the need for a work flow where you delete a token and then need it back. Place the token on the VTT, edit it and then use that copy to define the new default. Or use the new interface to do a lot of that from within the editing panel. But don't delete a default token from a character sheet if you are just going to make a change (I think Gauss said this above). I'm probably misunderstanding your workflow, but it's difficult to see the reasoning behind it. I'll repost bits and pieces and reply to each, in hope to clarify/reformulate a few things. keithcurtis &nbsp;said: Tokens are available as token packs, through the art library, and usually significantly more than are in the module. Roll20 token packs try to account for every piece of art that could be made into a token. No they aren't... Look up the Phandelver module. Only has about half a dozen token art in the library, none of which I recall seeing anywhere in the module. Ever product from Roll20 in the marketplace is incomplete. keithcurtis &nbsp;said: Maps are available pre-set on pages or can be accessed through module handouts. When I purchase a product including maps, I need those maps (and every other piece of art for which I have paid for the right to use on Roll20) as art in the library. I want to be able to make my own maps and handouts with them. That's why I pay for stuff, to be able to use it. The work around I have found is to download content illegally on the web, content I have paid for on Roll20, then add it to my library so I can use it in my games. keithcurtis &nbsp;said: All of the assets in a module are available within the module, and if you have a Pro Account can be transmogrified in from a copy. According to the Canadian Criminal Code:&nbsp; Art. 346 C.C. covers&nbsp;Extortion. Forcing users to pay a monthly fee in order to rightfully access the content they already have paid for on a website where they are supposedly allowed FREE access, does qualifies as&nbsp;Extortion. Either users have the ability to access the products they have paid for, freely, or the whole gimmick is just one elaborated scam. keithcurtis &nbsp;said: If you delete a default token from a character, then yeah, it's gone. You can pull a copy out of the Artpack and re-set it, but the better thing is not to delete a default token. I'm still having trouble understanding the need for a work flow where you delete a token and then need it back. Place the token on the VTT, edit it and then use that copy to define the new default. Or use the new interface to do a lot of that from within the editing panel. But don't&nbsp; delete &nbsp;a default token from a character sheet if you are just going to make a change (I think Gauss said this above). I'm probably misunderstanding your workflow, but it's difficult to see the reasoning behind it. Go ahead and create a new game with an asset you already have, no need to buy anything new. In that game, take any included sheet (both PC and NPC sheets should behave the same). Then remove the "Default Token (Optional)", click "Save Changes". Then drag that sheet onto the board (make sure the grid is set to 1:1, else it's resize it). Now, what does the Token you just dragged to the board looks like?!? Yea that's right... A shiny blue generic token that has nothing to do with the "Avatar" art set for that sheet. Also, finding a product that doesn't have the token of the sheet you just used as test shouldn't be too hard to find, considering over 99% of the products by Roll20 on the marketplace doesn't provide art in the library for any of it's content -.- keithcurtis &nbsp;said: I'm still having trouble understanding the need for a work flow where you delete a token and then need it back. Roll20 is glitchy and buggy, most of the time when a token "bugs" out on me, as a GM, I save a whole lot of time by just removing the defective Token from the sheet and redo the whole Token from scratch (which takes ~45s or so), than waste hours trying to find what is going on with it. keithcurtis &nbsp;said: Place the token on the VTT, edit it and then use that copy to define the new default. Or use the new interface to do a lot of that from within the editing panel. It's still not saving/updating properly, despite what Roll20 has posted (on the 26th was it?). Or wasn't when I tested it last night (I just woke up). keithcurtis &nbsp;said: I'm probably misunderstanding your workflow, but it's difficult to see the reasoning behind it. Unfortunately reality isn't based on your ability to understand it. If it was, the Earth would "still" be flat today and the Sun and the Moon would "still" be worshipped as gods -.- keithcurtis &nbsp;said: You can pull a copy out of the Artpack and re-set it, but the better thing is not to delete a default token. Have I mentioned there was an update changing/breaking the Token creating/saving/updating behavior a few days ago? There was also no mention in the patch logs that the new "feature" made it so if you removed the "Custom Token (Optional)" would result on being stuck with a blue generic Token, until you drop token art back into it? So despite having read the logs thoroughly, I had no idea that the whole feature was bugged all the way to hell when I tested it out. I hope that clarify a few things, if it doesn't I'll assume you're just trolling me purposefully. Now time for my morning coffee -.-

I'm getting the feeling that I am irking more than helping. (and yes, I am sincere in my desire to help--I don't troll). I'll step back.

It's been a month today, and nothing has been done yet... I'm still missing art for one of my token, in my main game. In one of the two games where I'm the player, I can't even update the "default token" with the updated HP/AC of my character. I opened a bug ticket, hopefully someone somewhere will be able to fix their mess -.-