Attendance & long-term campaigns

I've GMed a few games on here over the months, but they've all been one-shots. I'm looking to shake things up and run my first long campaign in the not-too-distant future. I want to make sure that I get a fairly consistent roster, so what means have folks had for success in making sure there's a minimum turnover when running a long-term campaign?

interview your players before starting your campaign. Tell them what you are expecting from them, what they will get from you, what the campaigns theme is about, and anything else you can think of then you ask them what are they expecting or want from the game and from you as the GM. I think someone calls this a vetting process or session 0, not sure. Try to explain to them what your campaign is about without going into details unless you wish to. More people will be dropping in to give you their two cents so read, relax, and enjoy. Just remember that it is your campaign and no matter what anyone says, you have the final say so but listen to your players for you can get great ideas from them and it makes them more interested in the game when their ideas get twisted to be thrown back at them.

My experiences on Roll20 pretty much mirror my experiences the prior three decades of gaming. People will come, people will go. There is no way a GM can truly control any of it. You can interview people, they can have the best intentions, and then something changes and they move on. To give an idea from my current Roll20 endeavor. For a six player game I wrote emails inviting 34 people to play (two batches over a two week period, first one 15, second one 19.). Out of the 34 invitations I received 17 replies: eight people wanting to create players and the rest saying thanks but they are either too busy or not interested. First game: 7 showed up out of the 8. One of those 7 dropped out mid game and has not responded to emails or skype messages since. Fast forward six game sessions and two more players announce they need to drop due to college and other obligations. One of those being a player who wrote constant emails about how much he loves the game and the world, and so on. So now two months into this weekly game I'm down to 5 players. (Out of the six current players four of them are college students.) Next session a player from another game expressed an interest in joining with this group and brought the total back to 6. Have I achieved a stable group for a long term campaign? Probably not; personality conflicts are arising and factions are forming. But at the end of the day: players come and players go.

Hrm, so it sounds like I basically have to suck up the fact that some players are just going to wander off, and recruit heavily when that happens to fill the vacancy. I guess that'll work. I wonder if it might be worthwhile to maintain like a backup list. Player doesn't show up without notice, and send out an APB to other folks who've shown interest and let em in. Anyone ever try something like that?

I agree with the general cautions mentioned already. There will be attrition. I certainly agree with over-recruiting, backup list, alternates, letting in extra players. Incentives for attendance may help on some level (you don't get any of the Treasure if you aren't there that session, or whatever). Most important, I'd say, the GM must feel prepared for the group membership to change & not to be constantly the exact same players for months and months. The GM must be flexible, good natured, good communicator, able to handle absences and keep the game going for the people who show up. If the GM gets bothered by it, "Looks like we can't play this week because someone didn't show up" or even "Ok one person didn't show up and I'm so mad this campaign is ruined" (NOT saying this is you, just giving an extreme example), that's going to fail because the other players will be affected. GM should try to make every session as entertaining as possible for the attendees even if it is less than expected.

I've shown up to a game or two, and about halfway through a session found a situation that was uncomfortable. Rather than cause a scene, I simply cut my attendance short, and informed the GM that I was unable to continue due to "unforeseen circumstances". Sometimes play styles simply don't mesh, and rather than cause unnecessary drama, it's often easier to walk away. However, as a player and a GM, I always recommend sending a parting message to let everyone know of your absense.

I can agree with the 2 above. Being flexible as possible helps a lot. because no matter how hard to try, you will have a 'core' group, then a steady stream of 'in and out' players. There seems to be no 'trick' or guidelines on how to keep people, its all down to luck, player commitment, and hoping they show up as much as they profess they will. And Id add (from my experience) with it being online: no shows, people coming late, or disappearing into MIA is a little bit worse than in person tabletop. Not saying the people themselves are worse people. But I think its the online aspect that makes it easier to happen. In real tabletop there is a bit of commitment and physical effort involved to be at X house at X time. So more planning that day around it if possible as you need to actually travel somewhere. In online, its easier for people to forget, or get busy, or be late. As for dropping out as a player, it also seems easier, as again there isn't that commitment to people you physically see and visit every week. Jumping to a new game is super easy also as its just a click and contact the GM from the comfort of your chair away. Be it for just checking out a new game, and getting conflict of times, or wanting to 'try something new' and wandering off into the plethora of game options waiting to find members. I've been somewhat lucky on steady players for over a year, but then my situation is different. Most of them I know as friends, and we started here with the intent to play. The randoms we picked up off roll20 have been less reliable. And again the online part makes it tons easier to just "up and leave" and never be seen again, vs telling the GM/players your style isnt the same and your going to have to opt out..so you get a few of "where did X go?" when that player seems to have been kidnapped by aliens. My experience has been close to what Erich has had. Maybe 1 in 5 that messaged me about the game ever even showed up or recontacted me. 50% of the ones that did follow up never made it to the actual game despite 30 private messages back and forth about when we play and what they need to have ready. So finding people that has interest wasn't a problem, getting them to actually commit to coming into the game was..haha. I even had 2 that was here every week for the game, but also was in 6 other games during the week. And 1/2 the time forgot what was going on, or what their character could do..because they was trying to game every day in 6 different ruleset sessions. Perhaps again its the dynamic of the online part. No longer is it like in person tabletop of "I know a guy that knows a guy that GM/DMs games if your interested" and you have a group. Here players are kids in a candy store, with GM's and games overflowing from thier choices bag. Think of Roll20 like a gaming convention that has 500 tables of GM's wanting to run a game, thats doors are open 24/7/365. Keeping players interested in your table for a long game is harder as they got 499 other ones they can wander over to :) Once you find the ones that want to settle down and stay 6+ months its great, and I made some good friends. But that parts the tricky part mixed with luck to get it.

I'm going to add some more advice, specifically 2 tips & tricks that I'll call "Scheduling Best Practices For Roll20" learned from my experiences here. GM's and Players alike should focus on Scheduling, Calendaring, and Communication between sessions & day-of-game before the game time hits. This helps reduce Players forgetting a game session and accidentally missing and perhaps subsequently dropping out. 1: Reset the NEXT GAME TIME setting every session. GM's -- Please!! Use the NEXT GAME TIME setting on your Campaign Details page. GM sets the date & time for their own time zone. Roll20 automagically displays the time for each Player in their own Time Zone! Roll20 also gives a countdown such as "1 week from now" or "2 hours from now". This is very helpful & even essential to me as a Player. When I see the GM fails to set Next Game Time, this invariably leads to people forgetting the day or being wrong on the time to show up. If properly set, many Players will see the Countdown during the day, and it's actually kind of exciting. You're at school or work, you load Roll20 and your campaign says "2 hours from now", that builds a good feeling of anticipation. The best time to set the "NEXT GAME TIME" is immediately at the END of your game session. Always always set the Next Game Time for the next session, immediately at the close of the current session. Don't wait 4 days to set it because you were too tired. This way if Players check back tomorrow, or the next day, or 5 days later, whenever they look, it will give Next Game Time as a date in the future (Next session) rather than saying "Last played: 4 days ago". 2: Make "Scheduling" thread Notifications. ALSO: GM's... I know you already set the Next Game Time, but guess what? That is not enough. GM should also start a Thread in your Campaign's Forum... call the thread "Scheduling announcements & Post your Availability here". In this thread you will always make at least 1 post announcing and re-enforcing the next session scheduled. "We are playing this campaign again next Tuesday. I've posted the proper time on the Campaign Details under Next Game Time where it will show the time converted for your time zone." When you post in the thread, Players get a Notification that can come on email and the little pink box at Top Right of R20. Also ask your players, remind them: "Please copy the Next Game over to your personal calendar." If players use Google Calendar, or Reminders, or Alarm, whatever you need to do, Players please make yourself a note so you can remember the Next Game we've scheduled and announced. Note that setting "Next Game Time" will NOT send a Notification. Posting in your Scheduling thread WILL send a Notification. GM's should do both, consistently. The best time to post in your "Scheduling" thread is 1 or 2 days before the game session. This gives Players 24-48 hours to open Roll20 and see your Notification. This time period is also long enough for the Daily Email Notifications to send out, for those who have this setting turned on to receive email notices. The next best time to post in your "Scheduling" thread again is 3 to 12 hours before the game session. This time you can just post "Game today! Check the Next Game Time on the Details page!" Now people who are waking up in a different time zone, or people who are at-work on break, if they check their Roll20 messages they will get the reminder that a game session is starting in a few hours. You can also ask that Players post responses in your Scheduling thread -- this is why the thread is also labeled "Post your availability" or "RSVP Please" or "Post Regrets Only if you can't attend". You can ask them to RSVP (Yes I will be here, No I will not be able to attend). Or you can tell them to only post "Regrets Only" here if they need to inform you they can't play on a certain day. Conclusion, improved attendance. If you do these 2 steps, it will radically reduce non-attendance. It will remove the excuse "I didn't see / remember / didn't calendar the next game time, that's why I missed it. I was unaware we were playing today." When people miss one session, they might feel bad, they might feel out of touch. When they miss 2 or 3 or 4 sessions, they really feel distant and withdrawn and it becomes less likely they will ever return. By emphasizing Scheduling and Calendaring and Communication regarding next game, you can reduce the instances of someone accidentally missing a session and consequently starting to feel withdrawn.

I'd shy away from the list of benched players: keeping players on call emphasizes the impersonal nature of online gaming, which (in my opinion) is the driving force behind the increased player churn and decreased turnout here. The way things are set up, people don't sign up to be in groups, they sign up to play particular games; the groups are just ephemeral constructs to support the games. This puts the focus on the game, rather than the people. It means that signing up for a game and then not showing up is psychologically no different from buying a game in a Steam sale and then not playing it: it doesn't matter, it's just a game, it doesn't have feelings. You combat this by making it personal. Pull people in, not just to the story, but to the group. Make them feel like they're showing up to hang out with their friends, and the game just happens to be something you do while you're together. The more you humanize the group and its members, the more failing to show up will feel like blowing off friends, and the less likely they will be to do so.

Fabulous guide there Gold! I'll do my best to follow it once I get set up later this month. I'd like to see some of that incorporated into the site's guide for GMs.

Jake M. said: I'd like to see some of that incorporated into the site's guide for GMs. I agree. Cheers. It just needs to be edited down to the main points & someone post in the Wiki (which everyone has access, I should probably try editing the Wiki, but to be honest I haven't ever tried that yet). I tried to convey with clarity but the result is a lot of explanation beyond the main points, and that's why I tried to go back and BOLD the thesis sentences. If anyone sees this who is a Wiki editor, feel free to take the points and add them where-ever they belong in the wiki. I guess it's essentially "Tips & Tricks". Also I want to say that is an excellent tip from maveti , "Pull people in, not just to the story, but to the group. Make them feel like they're showing up to hang out with their friends". That's some advice that I'm going to start incorporating more in my campaigns now that I've heard it explained that way.

Regarding pulling people into the group, I've insisted on having players be on video chat, at least a few sessions. It's amazing how much people will be a jerk to a voice, but not to a face. Also, I think all this is great material. Gold, you should really make a wiki page with some GM best practices. =D (as everyone with an account is a wiki editor...)

Thanks Aaron. I need to learn about that. Maybe I should study first or ask in another thread, but I am quite wondering -- is it something where I should edit my "Gold" Wiki page, so it's like.... Best Practices According To Gold, on URL Roll20/wiki/user/Gold like that? Or is it something where I should wiki-edit into an existing Wiki page (GM Guide / Tips & Tricks). If the later, any guidelines for how to decide what page/section it should be edited into? In other news.... Let a lesson be learned.... This happened to me today on Roll20.... Story-time, kids. So I had a Player who's been absent for 3-4 weeks. Not a peep. He didn't respond to my PM's. I figured he was dropping out. I was considering when to remove him from the campaign roster & whether to Archive his character sheet. The Player pops up today. "Sorry my computer was broken and I'm eager to play!" So he's totally welcomed back in. I'm just glad I didn't rashly delete him from the campaign. Advice to Player -- you know you could always go to the Library, or Work computer, or your Phone, or your Friend's laptop, to send the GM a message. "Hey my home computer is out of commission. I'll be out of the game til I get this fixed." Advice to GM -- Just because someone didn't show up & didn't respond to your PM for 3 weeks, doesn't necessarily mean they hate your game and want to quit.

Regarding the wiki, I would suggest that if there is a page already out there that is appropriate, you just edit it. If your material doesn't feel like a perfect fit but is related, create a page off of that one. I think getting the info out there is the first concern, it can always be moved later. =D

Regarding the wiki -- <a href="https://wiki.roll20.net/Roll20_Crash_Course" rel="nofollow">https://wiki.roll20.net/Roll20_Crash_Course</a> Crash Course is excellent series of videos, which I'll admit I haven't watched them all because I'd already been around for a while when those came out, but I should go back and watch them to know what's already on there. There is also another Page, Getting Started for GM's, but that page is purely one older video, and a transcript. Very short overview. There is also a Category or Tag on the Wiki for "Tips & Tricks", but it is not a Page on it's own. This must be generated from other categorized pages that are tagged with Tips & Tricks to add to this index: <a href="https://wiki.roll20.net/Category:Tips" rel="nofollow">https://wiki.roll20.net/Category:Tips</a> While one of the Tips & Tricks is "How To Get more Screen Real Estate" (nice!), there isn't a Tip & Trick yet for "How to reduce player absenteeism with scheduling notifications". In turn, Crash Course text points to Campaign Management for editing those details: <a href="https://wiki.roll20.net/Campaign_Management" rel="nofollow">https://wiki.roll20.net/Campaign_Management</a> Campaign Management certainly mentions that this is where you edit the game's time. But it's presented very mechanical, it doesn't neatly advise you to consistently use this feature as a technique for retaining player attendance. It's a "How To" presentation tone, not a "Tips & Tricks". Campaign Management mentions that you can edit Next Game Time. It does not mention some of the other tips that are coming up in this thread, such as Make a Forum post for Scheduling because that sends Players a Notification; Be sure to change the Next Game Time at the end of your current game session; Countdown feature; Time zone feature; and other tips offered in this discussion from others. I find that Campaign Management is categorized under Misc, with this Table of Contents: Miscellaneous Live Stream and Record Game Sessions Optimizing Roll20 Performance Campaign Management Image Best Practices for Roll20 So while "Campaign Management" is very "How-To Manual", in contrast we've got "Image BEST PRACTICES for Roll20" which gives advice, using paragraphs and screenshots / tables / diagrams. In conclusion: I wonder if there should be a new page added in this section, "Best Practices For Campaign Management" ? Then tag it with "Tips & Tricks"? Or perhaps upgrade the existing Campaign Management Wiki to accommodate a few points of advice and perhaps a screenshot, rather than adding a page?

Jake M. said: I want to make sure that I get a fairly consistent roster, so what means have folks had for success in making sure there's a minimum turnover when running a long-term campaign? Recruit off of Roll20 as well. In my experience, players recruited through Google+ communities tend to have a little more buy-in from the get go, are a bit more online gaming savvy right off the bat and you've got an additional method of communication straight away. I'd imagine that this probably extends to game-specific or publisher-specific forums as well as there's usually a gamer finder/seeking players sub forum. For example, If I fired up another GURPS game, I'd hit up forums.sjgames.com; Spycraft would send me to crafty-games.com/forum and so on. Even though you'll be playing online, don't discount friends, friends of friends and coworkers. Cut bait quickly . Players who are habitually absent, unfortunately don't turn over a new leaf and become paragons of attendance. If you're getting burned-out in a game because of not knowing who is gonna show up at any given session, grab the player(s) who do show up, hit the reset button and start fresh. Grab extras, just in case. If you want 4 players in a long term game, it's probably a good idea to start with 6 or 7 confirmed attendees. People are gonna have different tastes, things aren't always going to work out, and a few people will be no-shows and so on, but you can give yourself an advantage down the road by starting a little heavy at first. It is possible to find a committed long term group playing on Roll20. My current game (though on hiatus due to the impending birth of my child) has lasted about a year and a half with a committed, solid group of 4 players who were there from the very beginning. It took some doing to get a good match for an addition, but with enough effort we got it to work across the board.

Just to affirm what others have said, it's possible as a GM to get a stable, long-term group, especially if you do your due diligence up front.I'm currently GMing 2 campaigns here on Roll20. One has been running since Spring 2013, 4 players, and all have been with me from the beginning. The second group is 3 players, a bit more of a rocky start early this year but it's stable now and I am confident that this campaign too will run indefinitely.

Nothing is certain. But keeping it scheduled, and letting people know up front, this is the campaign, this is the setting, these are the rules, they can self filter. Many people here feel like the games are disposable, and the people are too. If it's a choice between playing D&D on a friday, and jumping their girlfriend because she decided Friday morning, she's in the mood, i have seen players message me "Yeah dude, gonna hang with the woman, you know how it is." I'm married, and my game night is my game night, and I'm not an opportunist. If I sign up for a game, I let the GM know if I can make their schedule. I message asking them what the game is what the setting is, who is playing. Where can I get the rules? What supplements is he or she using as DM? If I am going to be late to a game as player or DM, because of surprise Traffic, I get on skype and message the group, I'm gonna be a half hour late. So nobody is wondering. If as a player, I need to skip for a medical appointment, I message the DM a few days prior and on that day "I'm not going to be there, sorry, but I enjoy the game, and will be there next week." And I am. If the game is not my style, or offensive, (and I have found those latter here, a few times), I clearly state, "Sorry, I am not going to be there. I am dropping, good luck." Sometimes I get a query as to why, usually not. But, in my experience here, that's too much work for a lot of people. They join the game, and you never hear from them again. You ask for characters, and you never hear from them. They just hang out on the player list until you message them "Dropping you from the roster in 48 hours, unless you respond." I have had luck with backup players, people have waited two or three weeks to get into a game, and once in, I am not disappointed with them as a player. I have had games last for months with a pile of players and also games that were set up to be a campaign, but in the actual play it turned out the players styles were so different (many having ignored EVERYTHING I said up front about no power gaming, no Min maxing, etc) that the group just decided, no, we do not want to play any more with that guy, that pair, or each other. Games with real live female players are even more difficult because a lot of guys just do not know how to deal with female players as a player, despite women being gamers since old school D&D. I don't think women in games here seek special treatment, but I have heard of a lot of abuse against women, especially sexual harassment, even from DMs. EVEN IF you run the best game, the most popular rules set in favor this week or month, even if you got minis, maps, story, even if you are in the right exact time zone for whatever flavor of US, people are gonna come and go. I typically recruit 7 players for a 5 player game, and advertise well up front, "This is how I will run it. These are the rules. These are the standards of behavior." Still one power gamer or narcissist will join, and ignore that and do just whatever the hell they want, until players as a whole message me to remove the player, or it gets to where admonishments to clue in and be part of the team fall on deaf ears, and I remove them, because I dread the ongoing rules lawyering and confrontations which take up game time. After a few months that 7 becomes 4 or 5. I feel, overall, I have been lucky. there are good players here. But not that they are rare, but they have found games with good DMs, and are playing in them. This goes for both old veteran players, and those brand new to D&D. Young or old, and experience as a gamer or not, to me is not a factor so much as "Is this player anti-social, and a jerk, have ego problems, or are they manipulative? do they do emotional blackmail, Do they pull that whole "Unless X happens, I am quitting, when X is an exception to a rule already laid out that everyone ELSE agrees to ?" There are many of those. And they are poison. Figure out a method to test for an eliminate those, and you are good, because most of the social being players just want to show up and play a character in a fantasy world for a few hours a week, as long as it isn't too challenging or too easy, and the people playing with them are having fun, and they are having fun.

I find the best new recruits are actually people who played RPGs in college and have been away for 5/10/... years. They look at the roll-20 screen and see a detailed map with tokens and monsters and are blown away, they are comparing sitting on a damp carpet in a dorm room with their character notes on the back of a chemistry exam to the rich environment here, The worst can be people who come from video game "RPGs" who look at the dumb cartoon scene that doesn't move, the endless talking and complete lack of anything exploding, and are bored before they even have a character made. These are stereotypes, but tend to hold for a fair percentage. I just thought of a third stereotype, their father played old school in school, and told them tales of adventure, maybe ran a few games for them and gave them his books, which they have read through wanting to game, but not enough to be labeled a weirdo by their friends until they came to roll-20 and found out that either there are a lot of weirdos out there, or maybe RPGs are not so strange... That said, I have through hard work and dumb luck, the DMs friend, gotten a strong core group that regularly shows up and plays well. Recruits from the internet are 3/4 mythological, as long as you accept that, you can sort through and find the gold nuggets.

al e. said: I just thought of a third stereotype, their father played old school in school, and told them tales of adventure, maybe ran a few games for them and gave them his books, which they have read through wanting to game, but not enough to be labeled a weirdo by their friends until they came to roll-20 and found out that either there are a lot of weirdos out there, or maybe RPGs are not so strange... Thats a bit like our group :) 3 of the players are my teenage son and his friends. 2 others are the ones I've been telling him stories of playing with long ago. When we started up my son always wanted to try, so helped him make a character, he liked it..and invited another friend of his that never played but heard of it, they found out they liked it..etc. Took some a bit of adjustment because they was the 'videogame RPG' 2nd stereotype to start with. But after adjusting and willingness to learn how to play, really enjoyed the freedom of "wait, I can try to do anything I think of long as its possible in this situation?"..vs "there is 3 options to click to do this quest" like a mmo/rpg.

I've run several games that have lasted 3 years + My record is a white wolf game with 20 players, spread over three groups (vamps, mages, werewolves) each playing their own angle on the same campaign. I ran three sessions a week. It was massive fun. The secret I use is the power of character backgrounds. My games are all about the story, and the characters are the stars of that story. I make my games about them, not the encounter of the week. That way, they all feel like their attendance is part of the world itself, not just to supply enough damage per round to take down a CR7 monster. Also, I find that showing players that no matter how big they get, there's always another horizon to look beyond is a big motivator. Remember that almost every good setting contains not just width (a wide assortment of challenges) but also depth (place monsters by their own social groups, not just CR rating... Figure out wtf that party of orcs is doing there, and why on earth a beholder would put up with them for more than the four seconds it takes to realize orcs make better snacks than traveling companions). Details like this add a dimension that lend a sense of presence to a game, and in my experience it keeps people coming back.

Fine points for DM's in general. I recognize that Tuck isn't mainly talking about Roll20 because Roll20 has not been around for 3 full years to run a game that long on here yet. This site has had gaming for more than 2 years but less than 3, so far.

I haven't run into this problem - but the game I'm running is only coming up on it's fourth session (third with people outside my circle of offline friends). I'm wondering if another way to help with attendance is only allowing in Supporters + Mentors as players. That requires some actual buy-in to Roll20, which might indicate a more stable player. Might?

Having the financial means to purchase a support or mentor sub does not make a person more committed to a particular game so that suggestion would actually cut your pool of prospective players down drastically.

Dedication and support of a tool (roll20) does not mean dedication and support to a particular game. Of all the suggestions made, the one that resonates the most is simply 'talk to your players'. Talk with them, get to know them a little bit, what holds their interest in a game, and understand what their circumstances and potential obstacles might be. Having that familiarity makes it significantly easier to determine who's likely to stay for the long haul or cut and run after a few sessions.

Another point that always has to be considered is as old as entertainment itself: If you want to put asses in seats you have to put on a good show! As the GM, you don't have total control over the show, at least 50 to 75% of the show comes from the players. Your part is to not only paint the backdrops and cue the organist but to shine the spotlight on the soloist when they perform, have the supernumeraries in costume in the wings before they are needed on the stage as well as the initial set design. You need to bring each session to some sort of minor denouement, as well as something to bring them back for the sequels. The Player : There's a design at work in all art... events must play themselves out to an aesthetic, moral and logical conclusion. We aim at the point where everyone who is marked for death... dies. Generally speaking, things have gone about as far as they can possibly go when things have got about as bad as they can reasonably get. Guildenstern : Who decides? The Player : Decides? It is written! Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead 1990 Tom Stoppard

One thing that work for me when recruiting is to accept everyone into the game, but then approval only the top (5,6 however many ones you want) Into the game that can fulfil the requirements (Make a character, come up with a background, set up their token, give skype, etc...) I let my player know in advance that I will do this, and i get a lot of people who want to play, but after I invite them they just disappear. For me this helps to find those dedicated players who really want to play. My last campaign lasted 4-5 months without anyone dropping and only dropping because one of my players had a medical issue.

Thanks for all the tips, everyone! I'll try to take all your tips to heart. Hopefully it works, just posted my campaign recruitment flier today.