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RolePlay Perspective

1341943327
matt p.
Marketplace Creator
By perspective I mean literally the angle you prefer to look at the game board/pieces. It seems like all the models in the marketplace are specifically eagle-eye view, which is cool because you can rotate your tokens to show what direction they are facing. Personally though, I don't play RPs that require specific positioning or facing (I'm not even using the grids) So I prefer a more isometric view; (see attachment) While I can't rotate the tokens as freely, I feel like it's aesthetically pleasing, and gets the job done as far as general character positioning is concerned. So the discussion is; which type of view you prefer? If I made isometric token sets would anyone be interested? Or should I stick to the rotatable top-down-view tokens for now?
I did made and used sideways views for a long time, but on normal view maps (you'll see how in attachment). I thought that it gave a better representation of the PC or NPC. At first without orientation, but later with a small arrow indicating facing. Being able to flip a figure right or left was also a big plus. I did change when I discovered that, in Maptool, it was possible to link a portrait to a token (something that I still find missing in Roll20). Top down token and a portrait is my favorite kind of display now, but depending on setting, art quality (and if Roll20 does not add a portrait feature in the future), I could probably have a try with isometric tokens (maybe even on isometric maps), just for fun. I like the style of what you show the screenshot. I wouldn't use it with everything, but can certainly imagine playing a game like that.
1341962442
Gid
Roll20 Team
I personally dig isometric views. But without a means of ghosting walls/set pieces, it gets a bit cumbersome to use in a VTT. Not to mention that eventually we'll have some pretty lighting effects available in the future that really only works in a top down perspective. Like Patrick, I also miss having a portrait tied to a token ( I think the suggestion thread for that is here - <a href="http://community.roll20.net/discussion/comment/3179#Comment_3179" rel="nofollow">http://community.roll20.net/discussion/comment/3179#Comment_3179</a>). Without that sort of pop-up, one top down token looks very similar to the next top down when zoomed out on the battlemap. I may stick with either from the side view tokens on a top down map, or go with portraits pogs. I'm currently still playing around with a look I like.
1341962952
matt p.
Marketplace Creator
Overlap with straight-up isometric view can definitely be a problem, I noticed games like Fire Emblem do a really good job formatting an isometric view with top-down functionality, so that's what I'm gonna be going for I think.
1341965360
Gid
Roll20 Team
I think the trick is not so much using an isometric view but an oblique view-(The bottom right example) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Graphical_projection_comparison.png" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Graphical_projection_comparison.png</a>. Your Fire Emblem example is using oblique. And with a cursory glance on Google, a lot of classic SNES JRPGs used it too - Final Fantasy 1-6, Chrono Trigger, Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, Secret of Mana, and etc. Pure isometric games like Diablo I-III, Torchlight, and other dungeon crawlers work because they're designed with really complicated layering of graphic elements on screen. An oblique perspective just rotates viewer's perspective on one axis. That way your "ground" is still technically top down view tiles for the most part. Anything that elevates in height shifts backwards from view. I've been playing with a tile set that's offered from Lost Garden - <a href="http://www.lostgarden.com/2006/07/more-free-game-graphics.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.lostgarden.com/2006/07/more-free-game-graphics.html</a> that uses this oblique view. The artist's designed the wall tiles in such a way that interior space shouldn't ever encroach the player. The mapmaker plans around potential wall overlap by allotting a lot of extra wall padding. (You can see what I mean by looking at the interior example supplied on that page. The wall is REALLY thick!) If done right there's minimal, if any, object overlap of the tokens. You just might have to alter an pre-gen adventure pack's map to fit with this scheme.
1341970181
matt p.
Marketplace Creator
That's the word! Thank you! Oblique! I knew isometric was technically wrong. Replace every previous instance of 'isometric' with 'oblique'. oh gawd those tiles are gorgeous.
iTabletop is working hard on implementing an isometric grid - <a href="http://itabletop.com/HotProjects/Isometric3DEnvironments.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://itabletop.com/HotProjects/Isometric3DEnvironments.aspx</a> Got to keep up with the neighbours! :-p
1341997557
Gid
Roll20 Team
I've never played with itabletop. Looking at their sample photo of their isometric art in play; it does create a lot of questions for me. For instance: How does the VTT handle the screen when that PC/NPC walks behind a house? The houses and the wagon float over the grid, so you can't see the squares behind these items. Does the VTT make those elements translucent when the PC(s) is behind them? Does the grid appear over the buildings when this happens?
1342004852
matt p.
Marketplace Creator
I can see how it would be possible to program a virtual tabletop to look at where the bottom of a token is on the y axis and arrange the layer order depending on that, (and then just have a special option for 'flying' tokens that disregard those rules) I'd love to see that implemented, but I'm sure the team has their hands full with all our current dice suggestions.
I'm not entirely sure, Kristin, but you can see a video of the isometic grid in action here. The first four minutes or so are the devs talking about it, then it gets down to showing the grid in action. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQk_93bPn_c" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQk_93bPn_c</a> iTabletop is a very powerful virtual table top with mountains of flexibility. It's the only VTT I used prior to the arrival of Roll20. I ran a weekly old school fantasy game with it for nigh on three years, through versions 1 and 2, and that is a real testament to it. The first deployment of version 3 was earlier on this week. It's philosophy is very similar to Roll20 - rules agnostic replication of a tabletop with embedded video and audio. It's big advantage over Roll20 is that you can give players the rights to navigate through game worlds themselves, so you can set it up as a self-service shared resource library. The reason I've made the switch to Roll20 is, pradoxically, because of all its power and flexibility. It's optimised for people who like to set their game up in advance (although version 3 is seeking to address this), not really those like me who just turn up and wing it. It does have one or two gaps, notably no whiteboard and a lack of cross-platform compatibility (pretty much IE/Windows only).