Faction SPECIAL TRAITS - discussion

I've noticed a good deal of chat about the different Faction Special Traits or Special Abilities. I'd like to open some discussion about them. Primary things noted in regards to comments about the Special Traits is that some are really no good or do not have specifics or any real meat I would say to them. This has been mentioned an talked about before, as a sole reason for say, picking a Faction to play or create a character from. As some Factions are not as appealing as others, or their ability and trait choices are bad, or have no application to game play. Well, good or bad, special Faction traits and abilities or even bonus and etc, if players do not see any use of them, feedback would be a great help to make changes or revisions to special traits and abilities. Please comment below, and lets see what we can improve in regards to Faction Special Abilities and Traits. Try this if anything - fill out the below form. In regards to the Singularity Verse Factions - Zeniri Morblin Vampir Lolita Gothica Terran Victorian Evanrill Faelin -------------------------------- Faction Type : What I like about it? What I do not like about it? What makes this Faction fun or cool to play? What makes this Faction un-cool or boring to play? What makes this Faction a better choice to play than another? If I played this Faction /Race type, what would I like for a Faction/Racial ability? Or bonus? Other? Thanks all! Lets make the game better!!! -CHUCK!

It seems like all factions have their ups and downs, but some bonuses and traits could definitely be fixed. For example, Faelin get Zero G movement and combat at rank 3 from their wings, but then the Victorians bonus skills from being Natural Pilots and stuff only come in at rank 1 while Terrans Linguistics start at rank 2.The bonuses are all good, but they seem unbalanced when the bonus skills from one faction start at higher than others, especially when it could be a more useful skill than others. That's not to say that, for example, the free skills certain races learn need to be at those kind of ranks. Like Lolita-Gothicas learn 2 free social skills, but it isn't part of any kind of bonus so it makes sense for them to start at rank 1. To clarify, free skills should be rank 1 and bonus skills should be either rank 2 or 3 but all should be the same. Another recurring theme is factions having one trait that is clearly better than others. For example, with Lolita and Gothica we have no clear use for Wardrobe. "Loli and Gothica characters represent Gypsies, Traders, Merchants, Divas, Artisans, Entertainers, Spies, Rogues, Infiltrators, Politicians, Smugglers and Black Market operatives." Why not some kind of trait that gives a bonus to these kinds of skills? There is no one best faction, it all depends on how you make your character. For example, say I want to be a medic and I choose Evanrill because I like the idea of a race of space elf samurais. By choosing Bio-Tech as the specialist skill to gain +2 and putting 5 points to put it at rank 7, and get genetic modification to increase intelligence from 3 to 5, and put 4 points into Lineage for the path of mind to make intelligence 6 and get +5 to medical and science skills, I would roll 18 dice for Bio-Tech, and up to 17 for other medical and science skills. Only a Zeniri with maxed Intelligence, R6 genetic manipulation, and rank 6 Bio-Tech can match that. The same can happen with other jobs like hunter, pilot, etc and with other races. While there is no best faction, it's pretty obvious the Terrans and Victorians get the short end of the stick; no bonuses to any attributes even with no penalties, max attribute of 3, standard tech, etc. Since the new system seems to be more revolved around skill rankings rather than attributes, maybe Terrans and Victorians could start with more skill points to show how they are able to adapt to new skills. Or maybe have Connections for Terrans be 1 free Ally or Contact per level of Connections. I know this isn't how you might have wanted people to list points and critiques, but it's not really easy to say good and bad things about each race specifically. Like a lot of people when making characters for games don't care which would be a better race for a specific kind of character. Like how I said about the possible super medical and scientific skills of an Evanrill, I could have done that considering my character is a medic but I chose Lolita based on the concept of being able to have all the performance, persuasion, and charisma alongside the medical skills; Brains and Beauty. Most people choose races based on the concepts and work from there. Considering the races are OP Cyborgs, OP Vampires, Space Elf Samurais, Beast People, Fairy Warriors, Lolitas and Gothicas, Steampunk Space Pirates, and Classic Humans, most people would probably rather pick their favorite races and go from there. I know it's extremely difficult making your own system, just know that you are doing a great job and we all appreciate all the hard work you put into this game.

I read and made some good notes from JoshE post - I hope the responses help generate more discussion. I found lots of valid and good points JoshE made, I hope to review Factions and skills etc more soon, as I have more time. And I am doing that as we discuss also. Thanks for the post! I hope my comments(?) create more thinking and thoughts, as they are comments , almost as much as answers(?) maybe to some of JoshE posts / comments. -CHUCK Josh E. said: It seems like all factions have their ups and downs, but some bonuses and traits could definitely be fixed. For example, Faelin get Zero G movement and combat at rank 3 from their wings, but then the Victorians bonus skills from being Natural Pilots and stuff only come in at rank 1 while Terrans Linguistics start at rank 2.The bonuses are all good, but they seem unbalanced when the bonus skills from one faction start at higher than others, especially when it could be a more useful skill than others. That's not to say that, for example, the free skills certain races learn need to be at those kind of ranks. Like Lolita-Gothicas learn 2 free social skills, but it isn't part of any kind of bonus so it makes sense for them to start at rank 1. To clarify, free skills should be rank 1 and bonus skills should be either rank 2 or 3 but all should be the same. Some of the skills and bonus are given to offset (as talked about below) some Factions not having great bonus traits or abilities. But I do agree that things should be more balanced out somehow, skill points, or stat points wise or something. IE - bonus skills versus bonus stats. I tried to oringally give Terrans and other Factions with lower 'Attributes' ratings more skills to help make a balance. I am not sure this worked properly. But I think it needs to be reviewed again . Another recurring theme is factions having one trait that is clearly better than others. For example, with Lolita and Gothica we have no clear use for Wardrobe. "Loli and Gothica characters represent Gypsies, Traders, Merchants, Divas, Artisans, Entertainers, Spies, Rogues, Infiltrators, Politicians, Smugglers and Black Market operatives." Why not some kind of trait that gives a bonus to these kinds of skills? I like this thinking - See below, but I dont think bonus to skills is the correct place to go - but discussion is good for new ideas. I like this. There is no one best faction, it all depends on how you make your character. For example, say I want to be a medic and I choose Evanrill because I like the idea of a race of space elf samurais. By choosing Bio-Tech as the specialist skill to gain +2 and putting 5 points to put it at rank 7, and get genetic modification to increase intelligence from 3 to 5, and put 4 points into Lineage for the path of mind to make intelligence 6 and get +5 to medical and science skills, I would roll 18 dice for Bio-Tech, and up to 17 for other medical and science skills. Only a Zeniri with maxed Intelligence, R6 genetic manipulation, and rank 6 Bio-Tech can match that. The same can happen with other jobs like hunter, pilot, etc and with other races. I love how you players are finding Meta-gaming and power-gaming loopholes , even after I tried hard to fill them HAHAH. Good work, but I think this is awesome, as well as crazy power gaming :D While there is no best faction, it's pretty obvious the Terrans and Victorians get the short end of the stick; no bonuses to any attributes even with no penalties, max attribute of 3, standard tech, etc . I agree and disagree to an extent, and am working to come up with new ideas - see below also - Roleplay vs Meta-Gaming. I agree they need something, but I disagree from a RolePlay standpoint that they are getting the short end. Since the new system seems to be more revolved around skill rankings rather than attributes, maybe Terrans and Victorians could start with more skill points to show how they are able to adapt to new skills. Or maybe have Connections for Terrans be 1 free Ally or Contact per level of Connections. This thinking i Like! I need, we need to think more about these skill or trait offsets. I like this. I know this isn't how you might have wanted people to list points and critiques, but it's not really easy to say good and bad things about each race specifically. Like a lot of people when making characters for games don't care which would be a better race for a specific kind of character. Like how I said about the possible super medical and scientific skills of an Evanrill, I could have done that considering my character is a medic Something to note from my point of view. Even as the game creator, I am a 'Roleplayer'. I default to Roleplaying over power-gaming or meta-gaming a character or story . So as a creator I accidentally overlook game fairness or balance in an error on my part... since I am making a game more for Roleplayer type players. This is why some skills or traits or abilities are actually quite 'vague' unfortunately. I am trying to build the world, and the Factions or races and tech inside it. Not so much concentrating on game balance. But we need to make or find the holes in any really bad game balance issues. Also - the game is created by me who is a GameMaster and Player who runs 'loose' games. I like the freedom ( in any game system) for myself GM, and players ( or as a player) to do what I want, and make or run a fun game the way I want. So I have made some parts of the game more... lets say 'open to interpretation'. Which for players or GMs who want "EVERYTHING LISTED OUT ETC' to the letter, drives them crazy. Well, thats not how I GM, thats not how I like to play, and a very very specific and rigid game is NOT what I want to make... I want to have fun playing SINGULARITY SPACE OPERA RPG and I want others to have fun playing it also. So thats how much of the game, game content, and game rule system is formatted to an extent. More loose and open. Versus rigid and non flexible. But I do see the great need for structure, consistency and defined terms and game rules and play balances. but I chose Lolita based on the concept of being able to have all the performance, persuasion, and charisma alongside the medical skills; Brains and Beauty. Most people choose races based on the concepts and work from there. Considering the races are OP Cyborgs, OP Vampires, Space Elf Samurais, Beast People, Fairy Warriors, Lolitas and Gothicas, Steampunk Space Pirates, and Classic Humans, most people would probably rather pick their favorite races and go from there. I know it's extremely difficult making your own system, just know that you are doing a great job and we all appreciate all the hard work you put into this game. Making / Designing Balance into the game is something I both want and dont want, well not 'dont want' but a few Factions or tech levels are 'Superior' on purpose, they have superior stats or bonus because they ARE superior. That is part of the games design, or built into the game design. However, I do agree more an more that some Factions need an offset bonus of some type that reflects some of the other Factions special traits, or abilities.

Josh E. said: There is no one best faction Im going to cut straight to the chase. I think the Zeniri are flat out the most powerful of all of the races. What makes them interesting, is that they are weak to Vampirs, which I would consider the second most powerful race. The flat statisical bonus of abiliy scores, and the doubled starting cap makes them far superior to any other race in terms of statistical power, and that's not even including the generation bonuses. A high enough generation Zeniri would be the most powerful entity ever that I could see this setting having around, other then weapons of mass destruction. Vampire get not as crazy, but still substantial stat bonuses. That, and their blood being a literal poison to Zeniri is also crazy powerful. All and all, I think Vampire and Zeniri are objectively stronger to play than the rest of the races. I can't really speak for the morblins, since I have no idea how they work. But that doesn't mean instantly nerf them, I think they're fine were they are, if a little stronger than the rest of the other species. I like it, because it influences zeniri characters in both terms of RP and character creation to something unique, same with the Vampires (Or vampirs?). I would say keep them the way they are, but it's completely understandable if you made them a little weaker. Im not going to bother to talk about the other races, because I haven't had a chance to try them out for myself.

Most powerful doesn't necessarily mean best. Look at the sheer numbers of the Terrans and Victorians. The fact that Faelin are reincarnated and come back more powerful than before. The variety of Morblins mean no two are exactly the same. Who knows what the Lolita and Gothica can do with their cunning and good looks? The Evanrill pass their skills down through their family making each child stronger than the parent. Depending on how you play, power doesn't mean anything. Vampir are weak to Beam weaponry and anybody with enough contacts and time can get their hands on some. A Zeniri with a high enough generation doesn't make them immune to space, one well placed explosive and they can be sucked into the vacuum of space that doesn't give two shits about your generation rating. And when your people are generally disliked/distrusted by most races and their is a rifle specifically designed for killing your people, that's saying something.

Ramrofl said: Josh E. said: There is no one best faction Im going to cut straight to the chase. I think the Zeniri are flat out the most powerful of all of the races. What makes them interesting, is that they are weak to Vampirs, which I would consider the second most powerful race. The flat statisical bonus of abiliy scores, and the doubled starting cap makes them far superior to any other race in terms of statistical power, and that's not even including the generation bonuses. A high enough generation Zeniri would be the most powerful entity ever that I could see this setting having around, other then weapons of mass destruction. Vampire get not as crazy, but still substantial stat bonuses. That, and their blood being a literal poison to Zeniri is also crazy powerful. All and all, I think Vampire and Zeniri are objectively stronger to play than the rest of the races. I can't really speak for the morblins, since I have no idea how they work. But that doesn't mean instantly nerf them, I think they're fine were they are, if a little stronger than the rest of the other species. I like it, because it influences zeniri characters in both terms of RP and character creation to something unique, same with the Vampires (Or vampirs?). I would say keep them the way they are, but it's completely understandable if you made them a little weaker. Im glad you at least mention this - because both Factions - Zeniri and Vampir are pretty much top of the food chain in the Singularity Verse. I also like how you mention the morblins, because they have been designed ( hopefully) as a "universal" race faction, as in, a player 'should' be able to make them almost anyway they wish, stat an attribute wise, and physical looking wise etc. I wanted that on purpose, to give players seeking something different an opportunity to make just that - something very unique. Kaimana for instance is a 2 ft tall something humanoid mouse character. That in itself I find VERY unique. I can very much say neither Zeniri or Vampir will be 'nerfed' or anything. Some things might change with both in regards to abilities or powers, but both are the more powerful ( balanced or unbalanced) racial factions of the game verse. As a minor note - I also tried to design and envision the game in a way, that if players wanted to do say - a ALL Zeniri game, or a ALL vampir, or a ALL Terran game, the other races would be more NPC villains or even more alien to the players. Or both GM and players could focus solely on that Faction as a game world. I wanted to design a game with that in mind, and that as a playable scenario if wanted.

Josh E. said: Most powerful doesn't necessarily mean best. Look at the sheer numbers of the Terrans and Victorians. The fact that Faelin are reincarnated and come back more powerful than before. The variety of Morblins mean no two are exactly the same. Who knows what the Lolita and Gothica can do with their cunning and good looks? The Evanrill pass their skills down through their family making each child stronger than the parent. Depending on how you play, power doesn't mean anything. Vampir are weak to Beam weaponry and anybody with enough contacts and time can get their hands on some. A Zeniri with a high enough generation doesn't make them immune to space, one well placed explosive and they can be sucked into the vacuum of space that doesn't give two shits about your generation rating. And when your people are generally disliked/distrusted by most races and their is a rifle specifically designed for killing your people, that's saying something . Great comments both legit in game terms and roleplaying. Some notes which I want to say, to back JoshE and also give more discussion which I think he touches on in many ways also - Zeniri are the most physically and tech advanced. But DO have very limited numbers, or outside The Core, are few and far between. Also most Zeniri outside The Core are only Rank 1-2 Generation or 'watereddown' by inbreeding and etc. MOST interaction between Zeniri and the other factions happens between these weaker or lower generation Zeniri and other Factions. Which leads to a very very false perception of what the Zeniri truly are like as a Faction or race species. Few factions ( other than the Envanrill) have EVER had direct conflicts with the full might and fury of Generation 6 purebreed warrior Zeniri. Which frankly is a down right scary thought. Terrans and Victorians ( or 'Human') class Factions are the MOST prolific and have the larger and fastest growing populations. Zeniri in roleplaying see this as a threat, as numbers DO count for success over time in war or conflicts, or even slow colonial expansion. To the Vampir though, this is like wolves eyeing a abundant and massive group of growing and prospering cattle on the other side of a fence..... Lolita and Gothica are VERY weak physically and in numbers, but they are masters of disguise, subterfuge and merchant trade and economics. The Evanrill - it must be noted were the #2 Faction that was growing and successfully dominating the Verse and who were in control of nearly 1/3 of the Singularity Verse over 2000 - 4000 galactic cycles ago. Which was prior to most Terran and 'human' type Factions arriving in Singularity. If they had not aggravated the combined might of the Zeniri fleets down on them, they may have become one of the leading and superior Factions of the current age. ( i think) It is uncertain just how long the Evanrill have been in the Singularity Verse, but their war with the Zeniri had been going on for thousands of years. The Vampir are very few in number in fact. But regeneration and extremely long lifespans gives them an edge. They are also ( i do believe) immune to most adverse conditions of space, radiation, disease and planetary weather and conditions. Other than yellow - yellow/orage - red solar light, they are one of the most hardy Factions of the Verse. Of course they eat your babies... to survive... which not many like... or appreciate...

Just a few discussion notes - I do want to work towards some changes or 'balances' or something to both Terrans and Victorians - for sure. This discussion has given me some brain food ideas to chew on, which has been awesome! A little adjustment to the Lolita - Gothica I feel is needed too. An then maybe something for the Faelin They are one of the newer races to the Singularity verse, and to be honest, like the Evanrill maybe not one of my favorites, but I do still love them. Do they need some work too? I've gotten different comments about the Faelin. Hopefully not a spoiler for anything, but I hope, or my plan for the game is to complete the core game book. Art and rules and etc. And then make a Faction sourcebook for each Faction race, with more info, gear ideas and game content. The core game book is to set the base rules of play, and the base game world and scenario, then I want / hope to build on that world, and get more in depth with content and game world lore. After the Faction books, I want to work more on Verse lore and Planet specifics or descriptions and details. Also - hopefully not random question = But do players want more starship designs, space station designs, imagery etc etc . Basically more specifics on ships , worlds, or the typical things one encounters in the Singularity Verse fleshed out more? ??? The core book has alot of weapons and things, but its fairly 'all encompasing'. What would you all as players ( or gms??) like to see?

More details is always nice but I would say trying to focus on a few things at a time is probably best so you don't burn yourself out. This is as you said the core rule book so all encompassing basic things is good. Sad to see you don't like the Evanrill =P Probably my favorite of the bunch at the moment and been kind of wanting to play one in your games to find out more about the way you imagined them against the way I did. I'm going to have a look at the faction traits myself since the discussion REALLY got going here. I remember having some thoughts about it before so will have a look at what changed before I make and ass of myself here. Only thing I can say is Morblin are going to get wild with all these mutations they can get. You might need to change it from minor and major every rating level to minor or major. Just to reign things back but we can see what happens with Kaimana next time we play.

I think the Faelin are pretty balanced. Considering most of the time players will probably max out Reincarnation at the start to get 5 free Rank 3 skills but never touch it, and max out Bio armor and occasionally raise that instead. Same for Evanrill, maybe the Prestige could be adjusted or clarified a little. Like how this part works: "Characters may also attempt to locate resources or contacts equal to their Prestige Rating to assist them based upon their needs or chosen trade specialty when in need. +1 additional contact available per every Rating level of Prestige. Difficult Task check vs. Prestige. +1 temporary Lifestyle resource level available per Rating of Prestige can be accessed, borrowed or discovered. Very Difficult Task Skill check vs. Prestige Rating." But other than that they both seem pretty balanced as is.

"Also - hopefully not random question = But do players want more starship designs, space station designs, imagery etc etc . Basically more specifics on ships , worlds, or the typical things one encounters in the Singularity Verse fleshed out more? ??? The core book has alot of weapons and things, but its fairly 'all encompasing'. What would you all as players ( or gms??) like to see?" Well, we can't even get our hands on a bloody starship yet :P Although if when we get ships, I'm definatly looking forward to go space trucking around the stars.

Josh E. said: I think the Faelin are pretty balanced. Considering most of the time players will probably max out Reincarnation at the start to get 5 free Rank 3 skills but never touch it, and max out Bio armor and occasionally raise that instead. Same for Evanrill, maybe the Prestige could be adjusted or clarified a little. Like how this part works: "Characters may also attempt to locate resources or contacts equal to their Prestige Rating to assist them based upon their needs or chosen trade specialty when in need. +1 additional contact available per every Rating level of Prestige. Difficult Task check vs. Prestige. +1 temporary Lifestyle resource level available per Rating of Prestige can be accessed, borrowed or discovered. Very Difficult Task Skill check vs. Prestige Rating." But other than that they both seem pretty balanced as is. Some of this sounds like old rule stuff that didnt get caught or adjusted yet. Will fix.

Jim F. said: More details is always nice but I would say trying to focus on a few things at a time is probably best so you don't burn yourself out. This is as you said the core rule book so all encompassing basic things is good. Sad to see you don't like the Evanrill =P Probably my favorite of the bunch at the moment and been kind of wanting to play one in your games to find out more about the way you imagined them against the way I did. I'm going to have a look at the faction traits myself since the discussion REALLY got going here. I remember having some thoughts about it before so will have a look at what changed before I make and ass of myself here. Only thing I can say is Morblin are going to get wild with all these mutations they can get. You might need to change it from minor and major every rating level to minor or major. Just to reign things back but we can see what happens with Kaimana next time we play. Well, I like em, but they not my favorites I think xD I will have to look at the Morblin stuff again, maybe some wording is wrong. Ill fix.

Just wanted to give a big thank you for everyone's comments. I hope to go through the game book over the holidays since my schedule is rather slow from xmas to new years. ( more or less). Everyone has been catching parts of the rules that need review or fixing or Updating to the newer version. Its hard to catch it all. Especially when the doc is 200+ pages. After reading and double checking and then making updates and corrections, you get really dazed and miss things after awhile...

Some notes - What i want to do is go back through the Factions abilites and stats etc. And not balance things, but if one Faction is getting like +3 skills or +2 this bonus, as people noted, I want to give all Factions that +3, and +2 etc etc or something with same rating. While Attributes and such will keep more advanced Factions or races more 'evolved' and such, I do feel other bonus's should be more balanced out.