Roll20 ... why does Roll20 offer non-public or hidden campaigns?

Roll20 Team, Why does this site allow GMs to make their campaigns non-public or hidden? According to your Industry Report, there are tens of thousands of games that depend on this site ... the site is incredibly busy and well-used. You send out tweets listing that there are thousands of games being played every weekend. Your marketing team clearly wants the site to LOOK successful and busy but ... But when you actually get to the Roll20 site, it almost looks deserted. There is no way to get any impression that real games even exist. To a newcomer, the site can look like thousands of people trying to play RPGs but none of them are succeeding ... the exact opposite of the truth. Hidden games really seem to work against Roll20's marketing efforts. So why are they even allowed? Why not make all campaigns public? Cheers! P.S. This is not a complaint about game availability ... I play all the time! I just want Roll20 to grow and succeed ... and hidden games don't make sense.

Define "non-public"? Is there even a way to actually see what campaigns currently exist on the site? I don't know if it, if there is. But I really wouldn't want my games "public", I'm not even sure what that would entail. Just outsiders being able to see "Askren's Rise of the Runelords campaign is playing now!"? Eh, not too bothered I guess. But actually having people able to drop in and spectate? That might get awkward. Most tabletop games are small events between groups of friends. They're not really meant to be public spectacles.

Hi Sterling, I'm not quite sure I understand your concern. We want people to be able to use Roll20 however best suits their needs. If they want a private game they should be allowed to play with just their friends. If they're looking to play with new people, our LFG has hundreds and hundreds of new games actively looking for players.

I think it would be neat to see how many campaigns are currently being accessed by the GM and at least one player. Something kind of like the quantum roll page. I agree that games shouldn't be made accessable by the public.

I was curious what 'public' allowed, because it has been awhile since I looked at my campaign settings. I wouldn't object at all to 'Acknowledge this campaign as a real working campaign and allow people to see the details page', if that was as far as it went. (I say this campaign because my other two campaigns are testing campaigns.) But 'the public' doesn't need to gawk at my handouts or our forum, 'the public' has no need for it and I value my group's privacy. This is why my campaign is not public, and I suspect I am not alone.

Thanks for the great questions, Askren. Let me clarify: In the Campaign Settings, the GM has the option to "Allow public access to the campaign? Yes OR No." If you select "no", then only players and the GM can see the Details page of your campaign. If you select "yes", then anyone with the correct URL can see the Details page for the campaign. Selecting yes does NOT give the public access to the VTT and the ability to spectate ... just access to the Details page. Currently, even for Public campaigns, you must know the URL of the Details page to see it ... the GM must give it to you or post it. Roll20 provides no method for browsing Public Campaigns (you still must know the GM). So, I was wondering if the Details page for ALL campaigns should be visible and if a browsing system should be implemented. I'm not actually asking for this ... I just want the Roll20 Team's and Roll20 users' thoughts on the subject. Overall, my goal is to make the site more inviting to new players and let folks desperately trying to get into games know that there is a lot of activity and a lot of hope for them. Cheers!

Sterling Cutter said: Selecting yes does NOT give the public access to the VTT and the ability to spectate ... just access to the Details page. So, I was wondering if the Details page for ALL campaigns should be visible and if a browsing system should be implemented. I'm not actually asking for this ... I just want the Roll20 Team's and Roll20 users' thoughts on the subject. Saying Yes does more than that, refer to my post above. And no, not ALL campaigns should be listed. Do you really want our test campaigns cluttering the listing? :>

GenKitty said: Saying Yes does more than that, refer to my post above. And no, not ALL campaigns should be listed. Do you really want our test campaigns cluttering the listing? :> Yes ... setting Public to Yes does more ... I paraphrased the most important part for brevity. Yes ... I think test campaigns should be included. I have seen so many new players who want to understand the Roll20 VTT but never realize the best way to learn about the VTT is to start your own test campaign. Seeing others do it would be a good learning experience. If a new player's profile says zero campaigns GMed and zero hours played, then they are a red flag to GMs who want experienced players. Someone needs to tell these folks to start a campaign and learn the interface ... leading by example seems great!

Imagine if Roll20 were a building with thousands of rooms and miles of hallways. In each room is a successful campaign being played by happy people. Imagine each room has a window so you can see in from the hall. So imagine if a newbie comes into this building and starts wandering the halls looking for fun. She hears fun streaming out from behind every door ... but, when she looks in the window to see what is going on, the players run to the door, cover the window with a curtain, and click the lock! Soon, she will leave the building unfulfilled and with a bad impression of the building and its community. Aren't we doing that to people now on this site? Aren't we hiding the most successful hobbyists away from the unwelcome eyes? Wouldn't you feel left out?

Sterling Cutter said: Imagine if Roll20 were a building with thousands of rooms and miles of hallways. In each room is a successful campaign being played by happy people. Imagine each room has a window so you can see in from the hall. Most campaigns are actually empty; the Orr report are the active ones, there's probably 6 or 10 times more abandoned campaigns. I'm not really in favor of listing everyone's games since TTRPGS tend to be private affairs for most. Even if it's just the details, forums, and journals, it's still something I do just for my players. Not to mention, if they can view the journals, if I'm using content I purchased and they use 'save-as' on those images; that would breach copyright.

I've started and thrown away a half dozen replies. My words will be even less polished than normal. I think this touches on a deeper topic: The right to privacy versus generic curiosity. Your newbie wandering the halls and staring in at people makes me feel like a performing monkey at a zoo, honestly :> Why can't your newbie do like the rest of us and hang out in the forums? What possible value can someone get out of seeing my handouts? Oh yay, there's tavern pricing and some pictures of NPCs, and some maps -- all of which have no context for Random Voyeur. Well, I suppose there's my Powercards Formatting handout, a nonsensical string of HTML to those who have never heard of the powercards script. I'm not even going to get into the subject of the forums, beyond how I feel they should be private and stay private. I view my game as my living room, and I'm an immensely private person.

Ken L. said: I'm not really in favor of listing everyone's games since TTRPGS tend to be private affairs for most. GenKitty said: I think this touches on a deeper topic: The right to privacy versus generic curiosity. Your newbie wandering the halls and staring in at people makes me feel like a performing monkey at a zoo, honestly :> Why is privacy so important? Is it just personal shyness? Don't you see how your desire for privacy hurts Roll20 and the RPG hobby? You may not care about the newbie but that newbie is Roll20's potential income stream. Roll20 must grow or it will eventually go out of business. FYI - I always maintained the Details page should be public. I concede that you may have reasons to hide forum posts and journals . However, I would make mine public because I think exploring others work is fun and exciting.

No.

Vince said: I think it would be neat to see how many campaigns are currently being accessed by the GM and at least one player. Something kind of like the quantum roll page. I agree that games shouldn't be made accessable by the public. A real-time version of the Quarterly Industry Report, would be cool. This would maintain individual privacy-anonymity of every campaign but report the aggregate number of players & games currently in-action across the site at any given moment. <a href="http://blog.roll20.net/post/116828584295/the-orr-g" rel="nofollow">http://blog.roll20.net/post/116828584295/the-orr-g</a>...

Sterling Cutter said: Why is privacy so important? That's something one should reflect on carefully. If you're applying it contextually it can become a slippery slope. Suffice to say what you and I see as 'should be private' is subjective.

This discussion isn't going to continue here. The service is plenty healthy in gameplay. The Industry Report has nothing to do with a campaign being public or not-- it's simply what you've shown via your profile or selected in your gameplay. We're comfortable with the amount of action visible to newcomers via Looking for Group. We have every intention of remaining a platform where the visibility of your individual game is your choice and no one else's.