Assistant GM's or Co-GM's, does this work?

I was thinking about the inherent asymmetry in the GM vs Player participant in Roll 20 games. Besides the obviously different roles, there are differences that can be quite frustrating for the GM: If a single player misses a game, we can play on, but if the GM is missing, the game cannot happen. The GM has to be 'on his game' every session for everyone to have fun. Players can coast some time. The GM has the greatest creative burden, in that he has to create the world / run the NPCs, etc! The GM also has the burden of making clear the game schedule, recruiting new players, and other general chicken herding. This is not different than in a face to face game, but on Roll 20 it seems worse, perhaps because of the somewhat more impersonal nature of the interaction. I feel that people are more likely to "flake" on sessions, or show up but not give the game all their attention. Some GM's have found requiring a camera to help with this somewhat, but that does seem to restrict your player pool quite a bit. I think this is one of the reasons there is a shortage of GMs. Many folks (myself included) give it a shot but just get frustrated at lack of player commitment, especially considering the work they do to make the game happen. One thing I can think of to help alleviate this is to use an Assistant (or Co) GM. One GM must be primary, I think, no matter what titles you use, but a second gm would help alleviate some of the creative burden as well as provide for back up when the primary cannot be there. During a normal session with both GM's present, they can switch off the role of adjudicating actions. The 'off' GM could concentrate on playing a single NPC or two, adding more richness to the campaign. So, does anyone have any experience with this? Does it work? Or does it just generate even more problems?

I co-GM with a friend every Wednesday. In my case, it's primarily because that friend is blind (he has some extremely limited vision, so high contrast, close zooming as well as some technology allows him to navigate the VTT somewhat). He is telling his story and I am facilitating the game via the VTT. Generally, he and I get together and chat about the next session, brainstorm about what situation the characters may find themselves in, what creatures to present, etc. I setup the encounters based on what we come up with, and he runs the actions while I account the details, look up rules clarifications, and generally make adjustments to what is going on. I also work with the players on getting their characters setup, making macros, and connectivity issues (G+, etc). For the most part, it has worked out really well, to the point where some nights that I can't join the game, he is sufficiently setup to where he is able to run things without me. I would also not undersell the value of discussing the plot with another person. He occasionally can't make it to a session and I could run those sessions if we chose to, though so far we have just delayed for a week.

I'm very eager to take-on an assistant / Co-GM to operate in the manner, most like what Ronald described, but also what The Aaron said. Haven't tried it yet so I'm offering 2 spots for someone who might want to do this, and then I will let you know how it works out. :) The ideal co-GM for my situation would be someone who could happily cover a discrete area of the game without differing to much from my campaign ideas (such as running the Sound Effects from the Jukebox, portraying a few certain NPC's, helping to organize and set-up monster tokens, but not to tell the story of the game). First opening would be for Basic Fantasy RPG where my open-table campaign has 50 players (Really needing an assistant to help run Monsters and Monster Tokens, and to assist Players with Character Creation, leveling up, and macro writing). Second, advanced tier, my AD&D 2E campaign that is long-term with 6 PC's, deeper character development, weekly journals written and scored from each Player, multi-media including video and digital art, custom tokens. For the AD&D, I need Co-GM'er help with managing-triggering the Jukebox sound effects at the right times, and also help with managing tokens, and possibly adding API scripts to sweeten the gameplay. More advanced media-visual work needed for this position. Up til now, I haven't found a good way to recruit someone for these roles, until this thread. Thought about making an LFG for LF Co-GM. I figure most GM's want to GM their own game and be in charge, rather than be someone's co-manager and not get to control the world setting. If anyone reads this and you want to apply to be a manager of API, tokens, jukebox, macro writing, monsters, NPC's, in a long term campaign with either of my groups, but you don't want to tell the story or guide the gameplay as the lead GM, feel free to reach out to me with your resume' / gaming background and DM'ing ideas!

Man, I think this is an amazing idea. As the GM, I definitely feel harried and out of sync during certain parts of most every session. It's almost like I am always lagging behind the players, since I have to answer all of them. This is one of the reasons that I keep my groups to 3-4 players. Any more than that and it is impossible to keep up, especially since I only do text based games. Even with only four players, I find myself skimping on the details just to keep up with the players. To have another person helping to deal with the actions and the NPC's while the other can focus on a good detailed description would be amazing. Plus, to have a sounding board for all my crazy ideas might help to work out the kinks before I try it on the players. I think I might try to set something like this up for future sessions. The only problem is where do you come up with the assistant GM :-).

So, I have two ideas for that: 1) GM Apprenticeships -- Individuals interested in becoming GMs might apprentice under another GM in this fashion. They get to see the magic behind the curtain and take on some of the functions of the GM, slowly ramping up in what they do until they feel comfortable doing it themselves. Master GM teaches them how to do the macros, when it's right for sound effects, how to play NPCs and adjudicate player actions, how to run combat. At some point, the Master GM has the Apprentice run a one-off plot or two, and then they have graduated. Rinse Repeat. Really, the Master GM is providing a great service to the Apprentice. =D 2) Criss-Cross co-GM -- You facilitate my Game, I facilitate yours! Find some one that want's a co-GM and is willing to co-GM in return! You both get the benefit of having backup at the table and all the benefits of seeing "how the other half lives." Fool-proof! =D

Big fan of the apprentice gm idea. What a great way to help ease some of the angst of the new gm.

When my games have too many sign-ups, I often offer one of the standby players a chance to play different NPCs throughout the campaign. I think it adds a different angle than playing a PC, but still allows chances for combat and RP. It's also a gateway drug to eventually becoming a DM. :) After a campaign concludes, I'm always open to, "pulling back the curtain," and discussing my thoughts about it. I want to show people the ins and outs, and what I was thinking when I made certain decisions or scenarios, etc. I think it is encouraging to others to see what really goes on (not so much the Roll20 nuts and bolts, but the campaign and story arc stuff). I think a small group of GMs that review each other's campaigns and offer suggestions and ideas is something I've been wanting to try. The real difficulty is finding creative types that have something to offer. People do this on messageboards all the time, but restricting it to creative DMs will yield more interesting and unique ideas. Too many amateurs really just dilute good ideas, when what I really want is to add a bit of spice. I've seen people run with co-GMs before. The primary thing I took away was that one GM has to still be the primary GM, and the second GM a helper of sorts. This to me is what I would call a GM team. It works. I've also seen two tables, each with their own GM and players, running through a game which happens to conclude in the same map area, as each group of players competes for the, "goal." It basically is a team vs. team situation (and combat takes longer), but each time the players had a lot of fun. edit: I know writers that have done something like a story-chain. Basically, the rules for the world are written down. A story bible or foundation is laid out. Then one writer writes a story. Then a second writer writes a story in that same world with the same characters. Then a third, etc. I think people are sometimes talking about this when they say, "co-GM," but to me it requires a lot of agreement on the world and a clear foundation so everybody understands the boundaries. The more GMs you have, the more likely you are to step on somebody else's ideas for the campaign to keep flowing well. I can't say that I've done this, as my campaign bible carries a lot of details and history that most would find pretty boring. It can't always be raining dragon fire and meteors after all.

The Aaron said: So, I have two ideas for that: 1) GM Apprenticeships -- Individuals interested in becoming GMs might apprentice under another GM in this fashion. They get to see the magic behind the curtain and take on some of the functions of the GM, slowly ramping up in what they do until they feel comfortable doing it themselves. Master GM teaches them how to do the macros, when it's right for sound effects, how to play NPCs and adjudicate player actions, how to run combat. At some point, the Master GM has the Apprentice run a one-off plot or two, and then they have graduated. Rinse Repeat. Really, the Master GM is providing a great service to the Apprentice. =D 2) Criss-Cross co-GM -- You facilitate my Game, I facilitate yours! Find some one that want's a co-GM and is willing to co-GM in return! You both get the benefit of having backup at the table and all the benefits of seeing "how the other half lives." Fool-proof! =D This looks like a really, really awesome idea, and I think I'll try it out! I'm currently running a small community of GMs over at the Dungeon Master League, and this looks like a PERFECT way to get more new GMs to try it out without putting too much burden on them. Also, I've ALWAYS been a fan of the co-GM idea, since one could help run encounters and the Jukebox and the Journal while the other could focus on the players and the story and NPCs.

i think the GM apprentiship is a great idea..i might even set his up myself in my upcomming campaign, it will help others to migrate to the DMing side of the game

I've been considering a two DM set-up recently, but a little different than what others have described. I have been running a monthly game since December, but some players have been less than reliable. One reason, I think, is that it is hard to build a routine around a once monthly game. Unfortunately, I cannot put the amount of time in that would be necessary for preparing more frequent sessions. My thought is to recruit a second DM. We would run alternating sessions every two weeks, but the campaigns would be independent, possibly even in different settings. Players would have different characters in each session, and each DM would be a player in the alternate campaign. Benefits would be more frequent sessions, a chance for the DMs to relax and just play the game every other session, and possibly a more reliable group if each DM recruited from the pool of players that they at least know somewhat and have played with in the past. Some players might not be interested in simultaneous campaigns; I'm willing to bet however that just as many would be happy to get the chance to try out two different character concepts at once. Are there any other pitfalls I may be overlooking with this approach?

Benson Y. said: The Aaron said: So, I have two ideas for that: 1) GM Apprenticeships -- Individuals interested in becoming GMs might apprentice under another GM in this fashion. They get to see the magic behind the curtain and take on some of the functions of the GM, slowly ramping up in what they do until they feel comfortable doing it themselves. Master GM teaches them how to do the macros, when it's right for sound effects, how to play NPCs and adjudicate player actions, how to run combat. At some point, the Master GM has the Apprentice run a one-off plot or two, and then they have graduated. Rinse Repeat. Really, the Master GM is providing a great service to the Apprentice. =D 2) Criss-Cross co-GM -- You facilitate my Game, I facilitate yours! Find some one that want's a co-GM and is willing to co-GM in return! You both get the benefit of having backup at the table and all the benefits of seeing "how the other half lives." Fool-proof! =D 82 This looks like a really, really awesome idea, and I think I'll try it out! I'm currently running a small community of GMs over at the Dungeon Master League, and this looks like a PERFECT way to get more new GMs to try it out without putting too much burden on them. Also, I've ALWAYS been a fan of the co-GM idea, since one could help run encounters and the Jukebox and the Journal while the other could focus on the players and the story and NPCs. Hello All, I'm a player in Joshua W's game and an old school gamer/role-player in my own right. I started gaming in the summer of 1982 and if you're really interested you can see my gaming resume' here. I've been interested in running games here on Roll20 but have found the interface to be a bit of a challenge. I think the idea of an apprenticeship type program is very interesting and I like the concept of a Dungeon Masters' League too. If anyone is looking for an apprentice please let me know and I would be more than willing to have a conversation. While I have no experience with running games I'm more than willing to learn. Also, I'd like to join the Dungeon Masters' League if there is room for a new guy. Thanks for your time --Mike

Mike Blanc said: Benson Y. said: The Aaron said: So, I have two ideas for that: 1) GM Apprenticeships -- Individuals interested in becoming GMs might apprentice under another GM in this fashion. They get to see the magic behind the curtain and take on some of the functions of the GM, slowly ramping up in what they do until they feel comfortable doing it themselves. Master GM teaches them how to do the macros, when it's right for sound effects, how to play NPCs and adjudicate player actions, how to run combat. At some point, the Master GM has the Apprentice run a one-off plot or two, and then they have graduated. Rinse Repeat. Really, the Master GM is providing a great service to the Apprentice. =D 2) Criss-Cross co-GM -- You facilitate my Game, I facilitate yours! Find some one that want's a co-GM and is willing to co-GM in return! You both get the benefit of having backup at the table and all the benefits of seeing "how the other half lives." Fool-proof! =D 82 This looks like a really, really awesome idea, and I think I'll try it out! I'm currently running a small community of GMs over at the Dungeon Master League, and this looks like a PERFECT way to get more new GMs to try it out without putting too much burden on them. Also, I've ALWAYS been a fan of the co-GM idea, since one could help run encounters and the Jukebox and the Journal while the other could focus on the players and the story and NPCs. Hello All, I'm a player in Joshua W's game and an old school gamer/role-player in my own right. I started gaming in the summer of 1982 and if you're really interested you can see my gaming resume' here. I've been interested in running games here on Roll20 but have found the interface to be a bit of a challenge. I think the idea of an apprenticeship type program is very interesting and I like the concept of a Dungeon Masters' League too. If anyone is looking for an apprentice please let me know and I would be more than willing to have a conversation. While I have no experience with running games I'm more than willing to learn. Also, I'd like to join the Dungeon Masters' League if there is room for a new guy. Thanks for your time --Mike Sent ya a PM, go ahead and check that. xP

Hello any co-gm seekers. I run a game every other* Monday at 6:30pm PDT (GMT-7). While the game is full of players, I think I could have a co-gm if that is something someone is interested in. It is a 5e, homebrew world (if you like world building, there is plenty of space left on the world to build). My plan is to take the group to level 20, they just hit level 3 and are almost at level 4. I'll do most of the heavy lifting, so if you are inexperienced that isn't an issue. The world is high fantasy. No guns or airships. PM me if this interests you. *other is subjective as we have been playing almost every Monday, but i keep telling my players itll be every other Monday because one day it might be!