Experience? and thoughts on the game

Interesting run last night. What's our XP? I'm sure we all want to continue expanding our horizons. I'm a bit bothered by the gyrojet rules. It automatically puts that weapon at a disadvantage with no real upside to balance it out. -10% at our level can be seriously debilitating in combat.

I'm glad it was interesting. I hope everyone enjoyed it. I'll post something in the main forum later today regarding XP as soon as I get the log done. The -10% for gyrojet was already built into the original system. It's not that it's -10% across the board, rather they don't have a PB range, so they aren't intended for close combat. As such, even using the original system, gyrojets are probably somewhat rare in the domes on Outer Reach, because range is so constrained by the living conditions. Gyrojets still have an advantage over projectile weaponry in that they do more damage per hit. This means they will go through armor much faster, but also that they have the potential for more damage. They are equivalent to needlers, except that they will go through defense. This is especially true if you are trying to cause structural damage - they do double or triple damage in that case. I know that the house rule regarding damage is the biggest change I made to the system. It made the weaker weapons stronger. The average human can no longer take an average of 8 bullets before they go down. It also made the bigger weapons weaker. Just because a 20 SEU laser will punch through anything, every hit is not instant death. Only a well-placed hit is truly deadly. More importantly, in addition to hitting more often, a skilled user will do more damage (on average). In other words, better aim means increased likelihood of better hits. No, it doesn't make sense under all circumstances, but I think it's a big improvement - not only for realism, but also for gameplay. Regarding the differences between weapons - I actually feel that all the weapon classes are too similar. If I felt it was necessary, I'd like to give additional benefits to each of the different categories. For example, needlers are a lot like futuristic shotguns -> look at the picture on p2 of the basic book. Perhaps they should always be considered bursts? Or have an increased chance to hit or a cone or area of effect? That might help offset their big disadvantage. In any case, I'm not planning any more house rules for this game. On the other hand, the players could discover or invent new technologies to get new effects like this... Later, I'll post this same text on the campaign forum so everyone can discuss.

Yeah, on rereading, I realized that past one box on a map (meaning 5 meters) everybody's in the same boat. And the damage balancing act seems fine to me. It's going to be scary until we come up with some credits but it means an autopistol won't feel like shooting a nerf gun. Still OK with the gyrojet, though, just like Dear Ol' Dad. Just to be clear, this is where I should be posting stuff right? The forum is more of a general discussion, not a campaign one, if I understand it.

Huh... I guess this is the forum. That's what I get for trying to read and post quickly during my lunch break.

We haven't gotten into combat yet (thanks to some quick character thinking) but I wanted to sound out about tangler grenades. I disagree about what they're combat-effectiveness should be and this passage from the basic book seems to confirm my supposition: The grenade clearly prevents the character from acting, not just moving. Now, the rules also say that you can break out if you have a stamina of greater than 100. while below, you're helpless. Since I deal with Hero Games Entangles, which have definable defenses and hit points that can determine how strong you have to be to break out, I'd like to suggest a house rule: When hit with a tangler, any character can make a STR breakout roll. There should be a firm baseline penalty (say, -40%) to the roll with a guarantee success at 01 -05 not matter what your chance is. The amount of times this can be attempted, I'd leave to the GM. And finally, I accept that all GM decisions are final and if you disagree, that's cool. Part of the reason for me pushing this is the nature of the character I created. Eusyl, while relatively skilled in fighting and a Yazirian, isn't a casual killer. She likes having real options in getting out of situations that leave everybody breathing. And unlike doze grenades, Tanglers allow for questioning...

another go question is, if you see an opponent using tangler grenades can you pour a bottle of solveaway over your self to keep you from getting tangle.

No problem. I like looking carefully at the rules to make sure I'm doing it right. If you find I'm running something off kilter (which is way too easy), then please tell me. I'm trying my very best to run this well, so don't worry about second guessing my decisions. Running original Star Frontiers is actually really hard, because the original rules are much more difficult to use and justify compared to a modern straight-forward system. When I added house rules, I was hard pressed NOT to just keep adding more and more. The last time I ran this same campaign, I gave up at the beginning and ran a set of home-brew rules. As an easy example, I can point to that "lava race" last session, which was just too complex. Even, if there had only been two vehicles, I bet it still would have been too complex to be fun. So, I quickly broke the rules for the purpose of gameplay, and broke them several times as I made split-second decisions during that race. From my point of view, it ran terribly, so I hope you guys had more fun with it than I did. Regarding the tangler grenades, the only rules I have to go on is the specification on p27 and the explanation on p43. If you make the RS check, your or have more than 100 STA, you are not entangled. The first reason is obvious (you dodged or rolled away from the grenade), the second is less so, but I think implies you are a BIG monster so it can't cover you. Either way, the effect on p27 only specifies that you can't move, which is great for stopping a fleeing enemy or an animal that specializes in melee. It's also great because it can't be blocked by something simple like a gas-mask for doze grenades. However, it doesn't say you can't attack - which I think makes sense, since it's just sticking you to the floor. Regarding the "black blob" in the basic rules intro story, I never considered it to be a tangler grenade. To me, it sounded like a Sathar organism which I interpreted as killing the target. Regarding another house rule for tangler grenades - I think you may want to consider both sides. If you get a STR check to break it, it becomes less effective. Especially if you get more than one try. I can easily imagine materials where STR just doesn't matter - such as the plastics on those hospital wrist bands. I bit one off once because I was so annoyed by it, but you can't tear them. However, as a GM, I will always mitigate special circumstances. For instance, there are no rules for wiring a vehicle parabattery to create an EMP pulse to short out of bunch of robots. If you use your equipment (knives or snips?) you could probably cut your way out of a tangler quicker than the 30 timer.

I would believe that tangler grenades would behave a lot like sticky foam tested by USA military, according to test in situations where a single prisoner were involved the foam basically cause the prisoner to focus on removing the foam then attacking the guard. It appears that it was more helpful in restricting mobility than completely immobilizing the target.

Hadn't considered the Sathar tech angle. It just sounded so much like what a tangler might do. And hadn't considered the RS check as well.

Cool picture! Was that from a real grenade or a sprayer of some sort? Based on the description on p27 as "strong sticky polymer threads", a tangler grenade is probably a lot like spider silk. It allows small movements, but won't stretch far enough to allow movement out of your current location. I agree that if the tangler was stuck on you, it'd probably make aiming a weapon more difficult (especially melee weapons). But it wouldn't prevent attacks entirely. I could add a house rule where it gives you a penalty, maybe -10% for ranged, -20% for melee, but I really don't want to add more house rules unless I see a real need. On the other hand, I'd could see a general -10% "disadvantage" penalty which would make sense for all sorts of situations. That's not even a house rule, since it's already suggested by the system. Regarding the black blob, if it was a tangler grenade, wouldn't it be described as such? Instead, the reader is "horrified" and the guard is "terrified", so I'm guessing it's something unusual.

Well that from a sprayer, it had two different nozzles. but ti works in a similar tangler, the major problem is that the foam could enter a human's mouth and they could choke to death.