D&D 3.5 Character Sheet Comments and Questions

Hello all. I recently upgraded to mentor so that I can edit the character sheet. I'm glad that there is a support forum like this available. First, thank you for Roll20. It has made gaming with friends that have moved away possible. It also provides a new spin on tabletop gaming with having the perspective change for each character in the game. Not being able to see the entire map at all times requires a lot more strategy and communication that wasn't required before. Now, a comment and hopeful correction to the sheet. There is a button at each weapon to do a simple critical damage roll, but it is producing incorrect results by multiplying the result of a damage roll. In D&D 3.5 you don't multiply the weapon damage result from one roll; rather, you roll the weapon damage multiple times. The macro for this is built into the button, so there is no way to have players or DM fix it on the fly. The sheet itself should be fixed and perhaps open this piece up for editing. On that note, how would you fix this situation? When the crit multiplier is x2, then you roll normal damage twice. When it is x3, then you roll normal damage thrice. So, since this button/macro is specifically for critical hit damage, if the weapon#critmult is 2 then only one normal damage should be rolled and displayed, 3=two rolls, etc. So, what syntax would you use to say "do this macro X-1 times and show me the result"? A normal damage call is [[@{weapon#damage}]], but how to you tell it to call it weapon#critmult - 1 times? The equipment section is over simplified and could use some gusto. What I'd like to see is something where you have a button to add each item. Different items have different fields that you would want to enter values for, but probably the most important that affects gameplay that should have columns are: Item Name, Cost, Weight, Hit Points, Hardness, and Notes. Overall weight along with your encumbrance (based on strength) should be displayed at the bottom. Having these values would reduce the player overhead in having to look things up and not require a separate spreadsheet to help manage encumbrance. Armor and weapon properties are already stored elsewhere, so those aren’t required columns. Anything specific to the item can be placed in the Notes column. Would this be something that the default character sheet could get or should I start a custom sheet? I understand that players that have been using the default sheet would appear to lose the content of the current items section, but it would still be available in the Attributes & Abilities page. If I need to do this myself, would an API call be required to provide a total of the weight of all items? I would like to be able to print the character sheets. What are options for doing so? Thank you!

I probably should just remove the crit roll button; there is no way to tell it do a macro x-1 times without using the API. The built-in macros expect you to build up your crit in the {{critdmg= [[insert what you want for your extra damage rolled on a crit here]] }} section in the attacks. Basically for 2x crit it would be the default {{critdmg1=+[[@{weapon1damage}]] crit dmg}}, for 3x it would look more like: {{critdmg1=+[[@{weapon1damage} +@{weapon1damage}]] crit dmg}} or however you wish to code it. (Could also code it as {{critdmg1=+[[(@{weapon1critmult}-1)d(whatever the damage die is) +(@{weapon1critmult}-1)*(all the other weapon damage bonuses) ]] }} --that's how you can get it to account for the critmult 'automatically' .) It is likely the sheet will end up with an editable box to put a crit calculation in, similar to the current damage calculation box, but that will probably end up on the tabbed version I'm working on. There really isn't enough room to put a box like that on the current sheet. There is currently no way to print sheets other than taking a screen capture. For equipment. Repeating sections (the areas which use buttons to add items) are not fully supported. You would have to use an API to calculate total weight (assuming it can be done; I'm not an API-scripter so not 100% certain on how the API interacts with repeating sections) or you would have to add it up manually. I also cannot put in lookups so I could give you a set of blank boxes to fill in: Weight carried=......; str=......; light load= ......; med load = ......; heavy load=......; max dex = ......; check pen=......; speed=......; run=....... etc. but they won't autofill or change unless you change them manually. That was the main reason I had not included them already; a bunch of empty boxes seemed rather pointless. I am willing to put in another repeating section for equipment but it may take me a while. I am more likely just to put in 3 columns: Name, Notes and Weight; I normally see cost, hit points and hardness (when items have them) typed in the notes (or name) section of character sheets and with the sheet in double columns there is not a lot of room. Would that be ok? Toby was working on a more advanced/full featured 3.5 sheet but I don't know the status of his project. If you would rather create your own custom sheet and wish to use the current 3.5 sheet as a basis, the files can be found at: <a href="https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets</a>... ; the charsheet_3-5.css and charsheet_3-5.html contain the code for the default 3.5 character sheet; the charsheet_3-5_Tabs-n-Roll-Templates.html is the in-development version of the sheet with tabs separating the sections. Because the latter is in-development, it is more likely to see changes and some sections (like the Other tab) may not make it into the final sheet, at least not in it's current form. Hope that helps.

Thanks for the reply! I would probably remove the button. Players can just make a macro to execute [[@{weapon1damage})]]+[[@{weapon1damage})]] for x3 crit damage for weapon #1. The standard attack macro has a working perfectly for x2 crit and you demonstrate something that I've already been doing for x3 crit. I've advised players to pretend that the button doesn't exist. Plus, since this seems to require API code to accomplish, which is not available to everyone then it probably shouldn't be in the character sheet. What is the problem being lookups being implemented? Some of the values may be based on a formula anyhow, but I haven't looked at that in detail. For equipment, the 3 columns would add to the value of the character sheet. Unfortunately, the more I think of it, the real value is in the totals and loads. I took a look at the tabbed sheet and I like it. It has a lot more real estate. I've already removed the crit buttons and will see about some other changes. I'm willing to share any successful changes. Thanks!

The biggest problem with lookups is we can't use javascript in the sheets so there is no way to have a real lookup. And select fields only give me access to set one variable. I can do formula, of course and I can sometime interpolate values from one set with a select but that doesn't quite make up for not being able to look up the values from a table, esp when things get non-linear. I would love to see what you do with the sheet. I enjoy seeing variations.

Instead of lookups, would it be possible to create a drop-down with the possible values then set the starting value to match your strength attribute or whatever is required? Just trying to think out of the box a little here...

I can set one variable with a drop down. If you don't want to be able to actually use the values, I can set up something like Str Carrying Capacity 14 Light load: 58 lb. or less; Med load: 59-116 lbs.; Heavy Load: 117-175 lbs. But the "Light load: 58 lb. or less; Med load: 59-116 lbs.; Heavy Load: 117-175 lbs." is just a string; you can't do anything with it. I haven't yet figured out how to calc the values for med and heavy loads from the light load; if I can figure that out, then I can interpolate the other values but there's some variance: for med load, the minimum value is light load +1 but the max value is 2x light load + one sometimes (the +1 is on str of 2, 5, 9, 15, 16, 17, 19, 25, 26, 27, and 29.) And I don't know how to model that. I have similar problems with max heavy load: it's light load * approximately 3 but not exactly 3 except for some values (if I use a multiplier of 3, the calc will be off by up to 2 lbs). Maybe could display the string but have you fill in the load values for use yourself? That's the only way I can think of right now to handle str greater than 29 anyway since "find the Strength score between 20 and 29 that has the same number in the “ones” digit as the creature’s Strength score does. Multiply the figures by 4 if the creature’s Strength is in the 30s, 16 if it’s in the 40s, 64 if it’s in the 50s, and so on." Is not exactly an easy 'formula' to put in a drop down. Any thoughts you might have are welcomed. I probably can hack something that will work for a drop down for the penalties associated with medium and heavy load but it won't look pretty in the HTML. (that's the one I've been thinking about/working on.) Haven't quite gotten the modifications figured out for the Armor Class Dex Mod or Armor Check Penalty formulas yet, however. I did submit a pull request to remove the crit button and add a crit calculation box on the tabbed sheet; those will be updated on the official repository next time the dev's go through those. (my personal, working directory is at: <a href="https://github.com/suldae/roll20-character-sheets" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/suldae/roll20-character-sheets</a>... )

I'll chew on that load stuff. I'm sure there's a formula in there somewhere. As for the equipment entries, I ended up putting this HTML code after Magic Items in the character sheet. It looks good and have gotten some positive feedback from my players so far. Let me know if you see anything out of sorts. &lt;b&gt;Equipment&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br&gt; &lt;table&gt; &lt;tr class="sheet-table-header"&gt; &lt;td style="width: 225px;"&gt;Name&lt;/td&gt; &lt;td style="width: 30px;"&gt;Qty&lt;/td&gt; &lt;td style="width: 45px;"&gt;Cost (gp)&lt;/td&gt; &lt;td style="width: 40px;"&gt;Wt (lbs)&lt;/td&gt; &lt;td style="width: 30px;"&gt;HPs&lt;/td&gt; &lt;td style="width: 30px;"&gt;Hard&lt;/td&gt; &lt;td style="width: 90px;"&gt;Location&lt;/td&gt; &lt;td style="width: 310px;"&gt;Notes&lt;/td&gt; &lt;/tr&gt; &lt;/table&gt; &lt;fieldset class="repeating_equipment"&gt; &lt;table style="width: 350px;" class="sheet-table-row"&gt; &lt;tr&gt; &lt;td&gt;&lt;input type="text" style="width: 225px;" name="attr_equipmentname"&gt;&lt;/td&gt; &lt;td&gt;&lt;input type="text" style="width: 30px;" name="attr_equipmentquantity"&gt;&lt;/td&gt; &lt;td&gt;&lt;input type="text" style="width: 45px;" name="attr_equipmentcost"&gt;&lt;/td&gt; &lt;td&gt;&lt;input type="text" style="width: 40px;" name="attr_equipmentweight"&gt;&lt;/td&gt; &lt;td&gt;&lt;input type="text" style="width: 30px;" name="attr_equipmenthitpoints"&gt;&lt;/td&gt; &lt;td&gt;&lt;input type="text" style="width: 30px;" name="attr_equipmenthardness"&gt;&lt;/td&gt; &lt;td&gt;&lt;input type="text" style="width: 90px;" name="attr_equipmentlocation"&gt;&lt;/td&gt; &lt;td&gt;&lt;input type="text" style="width: 310px;" name="attr_equipmentnotes"&gt;&lt;/td&gt; &lt;/tr&gt; &lt;/table&gt; &lt;/fieldset&gt; &lt;br&gt;

Looks like I can calc the load stuff *backwards*... ie: light load is trunc(Heavy_Max/3) and med_high is trunc(2*(Heavy_Max/3)) for all values 29 or less anyway. That'll work anyway for 29 and below. Realistically how far up should the str go? If I"m using a drop down I have to stop putting them in somewhere..... That looks like it would work fine. Currently planning on putting the load/encumbrance/total weight stuff between shield and single use items area since it's more likely to be looked at than the equipment itself.

If it works well for strength 29 and less then that's a good place to stop, I would think.

Hello There! Plz add Magic items tha provide armor bonus! Also you could make the skills atribute change? I have some players with feats that enable them to use DEX in Search & Disable Device instad of INT

&gt;Plz add Magic items that provide armor bonus! So, what I believe that you are asking for here is that under "AC Items" that some miscellaneous entries are added so the players could enter details of a magic item that affects the AC of the character and would affect the numbers presented at the top of the sheet in the AC area. Would that be accurate? How many miscellaneous entries do you think are needed; maybe 10? We can't do repeating entries since there wouldn't be a way to sum them up without using the API. What fields do you think would be required? I'm thinking: Name, AC Bonus, Bonus Type (for stacking purposes), and Notes. If these entries also needed to be used for keeping track of them as equipment then other fields like: Qty, Weight, HPs, Hardness, Location would be suggested. Since bonuses of the same type/source don't stack then the player would need to keep the lower bonuses from the same type out of this area and in the equipment area instead. &gt;Also you could make the skills attribute change? Climb and jump are already like this, so it wouldn't be a stretch to simply do this for all of them, but it could be going overboard since not everything is affected by a feat. Players can currently add their own skill and utilize the drop-down box there to adjust what stat affects the skill, so they can add their skill there and stop using the default.

The disable device change required is: &lt;span class="sheet-table-header-left"&gt;Disable Device&lt;/span&gt; &lt;span class="sheet-table-data-center-sm"&gt;&lt;input type="text" class="sheet-table-data-center-skills" name="attr_disabledevice" title="disabledevice" value="(@{disabledevice} +@{disabledeviceranks} +@{disabledevicemiscmod} )" disabled="true"&gt;&lt;/span&gt; &lt;span&gt;&lt;select class="sheet-table-data-center-sm" style="height: 24px; width: 44px; font-size: 0.75em;" name="attr_disabledevicestat" title="disabledevicestat"&gt; &lt;option type="text" style="width: 45px;" value="@{int-mod} " selected&gt;Int&lt;/option&gt; &lt;option type="text" style="width: 45px;" value="@{dex-mod} "&gt;Dex&lt;/option&gt; &lt;/select&gt;&lt;/span&gt; &lt;!--span class="sheet-table-data-center-sm"&gt;= Int&lt;/span--&gt; &lt;span class="sheet-table-data-center-sm"&gt;&lt;input type="text" class="sheet-table-data-center-skills" name="attr_disabledevicestatmod" title="disabledevicestatmod" value="@{disabledevicestat} " disabled="true"&gt;&lt;/span&gt; And search change is: &lt;span class="sheet-table-header-left"&gt;Search&lt;/span&gt; &lt;span class="sheet-table-data-center-sm"&gt;&lt;input type="text" class="sheet-table-data-center-skills" name="attr_search" title="search" value="(@{searchstat} +@{searchranks} +@{searchmiscmod} )" disabled="true"&gt;&lt;/span&gt; &lt;span&gt;&lt;select class="sheet-table-data-center-sm" style="height: 24px; width: 44px; font-size: 0.75em;" name="attr_searchstat" title="searchstat"&gt; &lt;option type="text" style="width: 45px;" value="@{int-mod} " selected&gt;Int&lt;/option&gt; &lt;option type="text" style="width: 45px;" value="@{dex-mod} "&gt;Dex&lt;/option&gt; &lt;/select&gt;&lt;/span&gt; &lt;!--span class="sheet-table-data-center-sm"&gt;= Int&lt;/span--&gt; &lt;span class="sheet-table-data-center-sm"&gt;&lt;input type="text" class="sheet-table-data-center-skills" name="attr_searchstatmod" title="searchstatmod" value="@{searchstat} " disabled="true"&gt;&lt;/span&gt; I post these to help Diana P out and to allow those GMs that have mentor status to use a Custom sheet and make these changes. Find the first line above then replace the existing next 3 lines with the remainder of what appears above. These are for the tabbed sheet. I've tested them in a test campaign and work fine.

I just noticed the little check boxes next to armor and shield in the AC Items section that only applies the bonuses when they are checked, so a player wouldn't have to remove these entries when they don't apply; rather, they would just need to manipulate the check boxes appropriately.

Since I am not familiar with all the feats, please let me know the names and sources for the feats you are using to switch the int to dex on the search and disable device skills. I am trying to keep the d&d 3.5 sheet aligned with the SRD rules; house rules and other optional rules are proper fodder for custom sheets or for the repeating section at the bottom of the skills area since there is no way I could include all of them without just removing all calculations and having the player fill out all the boxes from scratch. Was planning on additional room for AC bonuses, but haven't gotten it's form/function completely narrowed down yet. It might be something as simple as: Deflection _ bonus1 _ source _ worn? ------------------ bonus2 _ source _ worn? Bonus Armor _ bonus1 _ source _ worn? ---------------------- bonus2 _ source _ worn? Dodge _ bonus1 _ source _ worn? ------------ bonus2 _ source _ worn? Misc AC _ bonus1 _ source _ worn? --------------- bonus2 _ source _ worn? If I put in something like that, I will likely lock down the rest of the blocks on the main page and expect them to be adjusted purely in the armor section. I would expect that the main item providing the bonus be detailed in the equipment section to help prevent things from getting too unwieldy. And putting the bonuses in this way allows for bonuses from other sources than just equipment to be used. Since the bonuses don't stack, how many of each type do we really need? 2 for the 2 most commonly used? 3? And is there any other type that I forgot to list? Should I try to make the check boxes exclusive? Ie turn them into radio buttons? or just leave them as check boxes and expect folk to uncheck the ones not used (my preference since it's more adjustable and allows for house rules and stuff)? Still working on encumbrance and load; I moved it to above the AC items section and gave it it's own collapsible section but am still working on getting max dex calculated from the check penalty, working out the calculations for increasing/decreasing load based on size, and then figuring out the armor check penalty max between the armor and the load. Right now I will not be adjusting the movement rate on the stats page based on load; people will have to adjust that manually.

checkboxes are a good option... I've seen the feats that John G is talking about before... I don't have the time to look them up atm since I'm about to head out for work... but I do believe they were from an official 3.5 sourcebook I want to say it was in complete scoundrel but I could be wrong on that one... On a similar note there's the Illusionist Wizard ACF from Complete Arcane that lets an Illusionist Wizard... actually I'll just copy and paste the entry here: At 1st level, Hide is treated as a class skill for the illusionist. At 5th level, the illusionist may add his Intelligence modifier (in addition to his Dexterity modifier) to his Hide skill checks. There's actually quite a few feats and class features throughout the various 3.5 sourcebooks that let you change the attributes linked to various skills and actions... I believe I mentioned to you before (in another thread) that there's a few feats, items, & class features for using Wis, Int, or Charisma for attack & damage rolls instead of Str &/or Dex... For the most part there's a feat, item, or class feature for adding to or changing the linked attribute of nearly any skill or action to just about any other attribute... except for Con... there are very few options for using con for anything that it wasn't already linked to... about the only ones I can recall right now is a pair of feats that allows you to use Con for Reflex & Will saves...

*nod* I have access to but am not familiar with most of the books other than the base players handbook and dmg; my group doesn't use any of the others since our DM only wanted the base set used. Easiest way to adjust attributes for skills (now that I think of it) is to put a -[[@{dex-mod}}]] +[[@{int-mod}]] in the misc mod section. Nonetheless, I can put those two in; how far should I take it? Just make all ability attributes a drop down and anything goes? It would add a lot more code to the sheet but it's doable. It would also take a while since I'm still struggling with the encumbrance equations. Might just need to add a 2nd drop for load size multiplier but that wasn't my preference. *sigh* edit: Though the additional dropdown has advantages as I could put in quadruped load multipliers as well.... hm.

Chaotic Law said: &gt;Plz add Magic items that provide armor bonus! So, what I believe that you are asking for here is that under "AC Items" that some miscellaneous entries are added so the players could enter details of a magic item that affects the AC of the character and would affect the numbers presented at the top of the sheet in the AC area. Would that be accurate? How many miscellaneous entries do you think are needed; maybe 10? We can't do repeating entries since there wouldn't be a way to sum them up without using the API. What fields do you think would be required? I'm thinking: Name, AC Bonus, Bonus Type (for stacking purposes), and Notes. If these entries also needed to be used for keeping track of them as equipment then other fields like: Qty, Weight, HPs, Hardness, Location would be suggested. Since bonuses of the same type/source don't stack then the player would need to keep the lower bonuses from the same type out of this area and in the equipment area instead. &gt;Also you could make the skills attribute change? Climb and jump are already like this, so it wouldn't be a stretch to simply do this for all of them, but it could be going overboard since not everything is affected by a feat. Players can currently add their own skill and utilize the drop-down box there to adjust what stat affects the skill, so they can add their skill there and stop using the default. 1. Yes it would be a good idea. (I think 4 is more than enough, 10 is way too much) Is there a way to work like spells with add button? Name AC Bonus, Type, notes sound very good! You could also add weight. hardenes HP etc is not so important for that kind of items. 2. Ok This sounds good

Diana P said: Since I am not familiar with all the feats, please let me know the names and sources for the feats you are using to switch the int to dex on the search and disable device skills. I am trying to keep the d&d 3.5 sheet aligned with the SRD rules; house rules and other optional rules are proper fodder for custom sheets or for the repeating section at the bottom of the skills area since there is no way I could include all of them without just removing all calculations and having the player fill out all the boxes from scratch. Diana P said: Nonetheless, I can put those two in; how far should I take it? Just make all ability attributes a drop down and anything goes? It would add a lot more code to the sheet but it's doable. It would also take a while since I'm still struggling with the encumbrance equations. Might just need to add a 2nd drop for load size multiplier but that wasn't my preference. *sigh* edit: Though the additional dropdown has advantages as I could put in quadruped load multipliers as well.... hm. The feat is called Tactile Trapsmith. Its from the Complete Adventurer supplement. So not SRD! Adding a drop down menu in all skills is a bit too much I think. I would love to see these 2 skills but if you want to stay with the srd I respect that! I could use your workaround! I have another question. When I roll with a weapon that I have set to x3 critical, Why do I get x2 critical damage? Thank you in advance! EDIT. I would also like to thank you! You have done amazing work so far with the Character Sheet!

The reason why the rolls give you a 2x crit is because when I built the attack rolls I hadn't figured out how to get the crits to work properly; it expects you to add the additional crit value yourself. The tabbed version now has a crit damage field to build the crit in directly. You can either replace {{critdmg1=+[[@{weapon1damage}]] crit dmg}} in the attack field with {{critdmg1=+[[@{weapon1damage} + @{weapon1damage}]] crit dmg}} or with {{critdmg1=+[[[[(@{weapon1critmult}-1)]]d6 +[[(@{weapon1critmult}-1)]]*([[@{weapon1damagestat}]][Weapon Dmg Ability] +@{weapon1enh}[Weapon Enh] +@{weapon1specialize}[Weapon Spec] +?{Power Attack Bonus?|0}[Pwr Attk] +?{Additional Damage Bonus?|0}[Ad'l Dmg Bon]) ]] crit dmg}} the latter will auto calculate the crit based on the crit field (and is the value for the new crit damage field in the tabbed sheet). Also will have to adjust the damage die, of course. The tabbed version of the sheet in my personal GitHub (at: <a href="https://github.com/suldae/roll20-character-sheets/tree/master/D%26D_3-5" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/suldae/roll20-character-sheets/tree/master/D%26D_3-5</a> ) has the encumbrance and load in and working (I think). If anyone with mentor would like to grab it and test it with your numbers and make certain I didn't get something wrong, I'd appreciate it. I went with using a 2nd drop down for size in that area since the equation was starting to get insane and still didn't work for small creatures. So I added quadruped values in the drop down. On the off chance someone wanted those numbers. :) Right now I have the str field set to use values between 1 and 29. The other possibility for that field would be to open it up and have folks fill out their own str and max heavy load. I think the rest would calculate correctly off of that and it would allow for higher str values. Let me know what you think. edit: the CSS is updated as well to support the new collapsible sections in the equipment area.

&gt;Was planning on additional room for AC bonuses, but haven't gotten it's form/function completely narrowed down yet. You are right in thinking that these should not be magic items. There are more sources than just equipment for bonuses to AC. A generic set of groupings that would bubble up the bonuses to the Stats tab is the right way to go. I'd stick with the check boxes. Magic Item Compendium shows that there are magic items that can provide bonuses to natural armor AC and its useful to know what the AC is when you get an encounter with your armor off, so that should be a grouping. I would change "Dex Mod" to "Ability Mod" and have a grouping for that since classes like the Monk can get bonus to AC from different abilities (Con, Wis, etc) by taking feats or prestige classes. I'm not sure that Misc Mod grouping is necessary since it should fall under one of the groupings. It could remain a single editable field just in case something was missed. I'd think that 3 entries per grouping would be sufficient in most cases. I don't see a need to have a Dodge grouping, but I could be wrong. Each entry should be collapsible, so it can hide a little bit of itself off of the sheet. Ultimately, we are looking at populating the full AC, Touch AC, and Flat-footed AC. I'm by no means as well-versed in D&D 3.5 as I'd like to be, but I get this from the PH. Full AC includes everything. Touch AC includes size, abilities (Dex), and deflection. Flat-footed includes everything but abilities (feats can make them included). So I suggest that your list of groupings should be: Deflection, Abilities, Armor Bonus, Natural Armor Bonus.

Here is a little contribution from me. I 've made a turn undead macro that makes all the turning checks and automatically calculates the values from the turning table. I have set a +4 max on the check but haven't been able to set the -4 min value. &{template:DnD35StdRoll} {{basicflag=true}} {{name=@{character_name} Turns Undead}} {{subtags=He raises his shield with @{deity}'s holy symbol}} &{template:DnD35StdRoll} {{name=@{character_name} can turn}} {{abilityflag=true}} {{check=Turning Check:}} {{checkroll= [[@{casterlevel} + {4, round([[0.33*[[1d20 + [[@{cha-mod}]] ]] -3.66 ]])}kl1]] max HD}}" &{template:DnD35Attack} {{pcflag=true}} {{name=@{character_name}'s turning dmg}} {{damage1=is [[2d6 + @{selected|level} + @{cha-mod}]] total HD undead creatures}}

Chaotic Law said: I don't see a need to have a Dodge grouping, but I could be wrong. Each entry should be collapsible, so it can hide a little bit of itself off of the sheet. Ultimately, we are looking at populating the full AC, Touch AC, and Flat-footed AC. I'm by no means as well-versed in D&D 3.5 as I'd like to be, but I get this from the PH. Full AC includes everything. Touch AC includes size, abilities (Dex), and deflection. Flat-footed includes everything but abilities (feats can make them included). So I suggest that your list of groupings should be: Deflection, Abilities, Armor Bonus, Natural Armor Bonus. The dodge bonus field was actually a request by me some time back. The reason for it is due to the way that dodge bonuses function compared to most other bonuses to AC. Most people only take note of the single +1 dodge bonus from the dodge feat applied against a single target. However, there are actually many more feats and spells that provide dodge bonuses, and not all of them are applied to a singular target. Not to mention the fact that certain classes provide a significant dodge bonus (or in the case of the monk an untyped bonus that is functionally identical to a dodge bonus). The functionality I speak of is the fact that all dodge bonuses are lost when you are denied your dexterity. Most of the bonuses you can add to your AC are not lost in this way. So the dodge bonus field exists for any bonuses that you would lose when denied dexterity or are otherwise flatfooted. So that means your monks, ninjas, battle dancers, swashbucklers, ect... should all be putting their class AC bonuses into dodge, since every one of them is either explicitly (swashbuckler) a dodge bonus or is functionally a dodge bonus. I would very much prefer to not see something that I had requested to be added to the sheet (and for good reason) be removed.

Don't worry, I won't be removing the dodge field. Question: for dex-based contributions to AC, the dex bonus is limited by the Armor worn as well as the load (the most restrictive of the two). Those calculations are currently in the sheet and do work. For others who use other abilities, are those ability bonus' limited by the armor and load in the same way dex is? Ie: can I sum those fields and run it through the same code the dex goes through or do I need to try and handle it differently? edit: oh.. and do the other ability bonuses follow the same rules as dex with regards to FF AC and penalties?

Diana P said: Don't worry, I won't be removing the dodge field. Question: for dex-based contributions to AC, the dex bonus is limited by the Armor worn as well as the load (the most restrictive of the two). Those calculations are currently in the sheet and do work. For others who use other abilities, are those ability bonus' limited by the armor and load in the same way dex is? Ie: can I sum those fields and run it through the same code the dex goes through or do I need to try and handle it differently? edit: oh.. and do the other ability bonuses follow the same rules as dex with regards to FF AC and penalties? I don't thing there is a limitation in dodge or deflection bonuses on AC except stacking. The only thing that is limited by the armor/shield and load you carry is dex as far as I know.

Armor and Load don't limit the dodge or deflection bonuses; I'm asking more for say the monk who can get ac bonuses from Con or Wis (per what Chaotic Law said). If I'm adding a section for additional ability bonuses instead of just Dex, I need to know how to handle them. Basically the dex bonus has a formula for calculating whether it is constrained by the armor and/or load. Are Con/Wis/whatever constrained by it as well. If not, would it be better to just leave the dex alone and expect the con/wis bonuses to be put in the Dodge field since it affects the same AC types. Or do you lose the Dex bonus if you take the con/wis stuff? basically my working chart: Size + Deflection (does not stack) + Misc (may/may stack)/ are in AC, Touch AC, FF AC Armor Bonus (includes enhancement bonus, does not stack) + Shield Bonus (includes enhancement bonus, does not stack) + Natural Armor (may stack under certain circumstances....ie monk feat gives +1 each time taken) are in AC and FF AC but not in Touch AC Dex (constrained by armor/load) + Dodge (may stack) are in AC and Touch AC but not FF AC (dex penalty is in FF AC) Other ability (wis/con/?) are in AC and Touch AC but not FF AC but... are they constrained? do they give a penalty (or is it a moot point 'cause you wouldn't take the feat/whatever if it would give a penalty?)?

Monk AC: AC Bonus (Ex) : A monk is highly trained at dodging blows, and she has a sixth sense that lets her avoid even unanticipated attacks. When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level). These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load. Yup... immobilized, helpless, armored, with shield, and when carrying a load. hm... I swear it said lost when denied dexterity before... dodge bonuses are lost when flatfooted though... to my knowledge the only option that adds con to AC replaces dex and is lost when you would have otherwise been denied your dex bonus, but is not affected by armor.

So if I label which categories go into what, I can just pipe the ability (dex and Wis?) through the same equation that limits dex now and then maybe expect that folk will put the con one (or anything else that is not affected by the armor limit) into the dodge area? Is that reasonable? Edit: hm.. So wait.. the Wis one get treated differently from dex then? should I just leave dex alone? the Wis one could go in Misc since that affects everything? And add something to turn off the dex part of AC? errg.

Diana P said: So if I label which categories go into what, I can just pipe the ability (dex and Wis?) through the same equation that limits dex now and then maybe expect that folk will put the con one (or anything else that is not affected by the armor limit) into the dodge area? Is that reasonable? Edit: hm.. So wait.. the Wis one get treated differently from dex then? should I just leave dex alone? the Wis one could go in Misc since that affects everything? And add something to turn off the dex part of AC? errg. I am quoting 3.5e PHB: "AC Bonus (Ex): A monk is highly trained at dodging blows, and she has a sixth sense that lets her avoid even unanticipated attacks. When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level). These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load." So the wisdom bonus in not lost when flatfooted. But it is lost when armored or with load.

One thing i would LOVE to see on the sheet is a 'total skill points spent' to sum up the total amount of skill points a player has spent to date... would really help with those post levelling up checks for cheaters... as well as helping players gauge their spend. :)

Ziechael said: One thing i would LOVE to see on the sheet is a 'total skill points spent' to sum up the total amount of skill points a player has spent to date... would really help with those post levelling up checks for cheaters... as well as helping players gauge their spend. :) Thats a nice idea! Another good idea would be if you could add Untrained skill boxes. (maybe just a black box symbol "■")) Also could you put maybe a field named Temporary Hitpoints that actually adds hitpoints to both current and max hp? That would be really usefull also! :)

I can easily sum up how many boxes in skills you have but I can't easily tell you how many points you spent: the formula would need to know which class you were when you spent the points and whether it was cross-class or not at the time. You could customize a macro for each player with the points spent information: [[@{useroperanks}*2[crossclass] +@{usemagicdeviceranks} +@{tumbleranks}*2[crossclass] +@{swimranks} +etc]]) If you want, I can change the class skill box to return a 1 or 0 instead of 'class' or 0 which would allow a @{swimranks}*(2-1) to calc if it's cross class or not right now, but for multi-class characters, a simple formula would still not work. Let me know what you think. I'll think about untrained; no promises. Thoughts on the temporary hit point field: I hadn't put in a temporary hp field, mostly because my group doesn't ever actually open the sheet to change hit points; they are linked to one of the bars on the token and we just change it there. (nonlethal damage is sometimes linked to one of the other bars). And right now, if I change it, you either lose 'hitpoints' as the name of the total or it will just be a box (like the non-lethal damage one) and won't be reflected in the current hitpoint. I don't want to change the hitpoints name since that will potentially break peoples macros and if I were to turn it into an autocalc field, all the currently entered information will overwrite the autocalc. I can't make a field both editable *and* an auto calc. If you think it worth just the box with no logic on the sheet, I'll add another one in for it, but you would have to create your own attribute which is the sum of the two. Let me know. If you want to check out the current incarnation of the sheet (the tabbed version which is getting closer to replacing the other version), you can hop into my testbed: <a href="https://app.roll20.net/join/878035/zEe4CQ" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/join/878035/zEe4CQ</a> and let me know what you think. This one has the encumbrance/load stuff as well as the AC stuff in it.

When you replace the current one. Will the stats remain?

Yes. I am trying to be very careful to not break naming or anything so that if you are using macros and pulling information from the existing sheet, it should all be there. The only thing that changes is some of the intermediate names in the AC calculations shuffle around. So if you were doing something with the autocalc field which displayed whether you were using dex or the max dex from your armor, that one is renamed. The old one may be still there, but the field being used in the future is named slightly differently. Any macro which uses the end values (armorclass) will still function exactly as it does right now and I preserved the current attributes in the new AC section so if you never opened the sheet, you probably wouldn't notice the change. Hopefully. For the characters that I use, I have swapped the new sheet in and out with the current sheet from the pull down and I can run fights etc without really paying attention to which sheet I have in at the time. My custom version of the sheet has some specialized stuff which works with the API and when I'm having API issues, I just swap in one of the sheets on the GitHub repository and we keep playing without the API. No issues we've seen. I have import character turned on in the test-campaign; if you wish to import a character in and let me know, I can give you permissions on it and you could verify that it works as you expect.

I just took a look at it, it's looking pretty good. A few small additions for the AC section... Misc Touch & Misc FF bonuses... Uncanny Dodge toggle (Keep Dex when FF)... Immobilized AC (Since there are factors that cause your AC when immobilized to be different than when FF, despite them originally being the same)

Added the checkbox back to dex to allow it to apply to flat-foot ac. Are there any misc touch and misc ff bonuses which don't affect regular ac? if not, then they can go in the abilities section; the Y and N (except for the one for touch on dex) are stylized check boxes which can be toggled to set which they affect. And I can add the 4th line back in to allow for 4 sets of bonuses in there instead of 3. Immobilized AC: If it's not FF, how does it differ then? Ie what goes into it? Simple solution1: I give you a box to type it in? Simple solution2: I give you FF ac and a box to put the delta in and it then shows the immobilized AC? Not as simple solution3: I duplicate everything for FF ac with what changes? Just another set of toggles for the abilities section? or are there more differences between the two?

well there are some armor & shield enchantments that allow your enhancement bonuses to be applied to Touch AC... Immobilized is normally identical to FF, however, there are AC bonuses & abilities that modify existing AC bonuses (ex: Uncanny Dodge, & Monk AC Bonus) that cause your Immobilized AC to differ from your FF AC. A monks AC bonus is not applied when Immobilized but is applied when FF. A rogue with Uncanny Dodge keeps their Dex when flat footed, but not when Immobilized... For the most though, ALL ability bonuses are lost when immobilized regardless of if they apply when FF or not, beyond that anything that is lost when FF is lost when Immobilized.

Is there anything which goes in the immobilized AC which is not in flat-footed? (or touch or anything else?) I can just calc immobilized AC the way I was originally calculating flat-footed AC before adding the stuff for exceptions to flat-footed AC? (basically Armor, Natural Armor, Deflection, and Misc.) Trying to make certain before I change large chunks of code around.

Nope, nothing extra... and yes, your original Flat-footed AC calc withhout the exceptions would be exactly what Immobilized would be (just be sure not to include any ability modifiers in the calculation, a monk does not get his Monks AC bonus when immobilized etc...)

Ok. New version up in my test bed. The misc AC category is now truly miscellaneous..... Moved Armor check penalty up a line and abbreviated it's name to make room for the immobilized ac. Other minor cosmetic adjustments to get stuff to fit nicely. Let me know if it will work.

It looks good... and as for the armor/shield properties to apply enhancement bonus to touch AC, with the new additions to Misc those can be handled down there. might suggest changing the abbreviation to Armor Check Penalty to AC Pen... I had to mouse over it to see the name of the field to realize what it was... I can't wait till this goes live... I'm going to be using that Misc section a lot... hm... I should probably check how many misc bonuses I actually have on my character... *runs off and counts real quick* O.o 7 that can't be right... *checks again* 5 documented... it's 5AM I'll have to comb through my charactersheet later to figure that mess out.. your tabbed sheet will make things so much easier when it's live... perhaps an AC penalty section as well... for people who use feats such as Robilar's Gambit... technically the penalties from such feats are temporary and only apply when the user wants the benefit of the feat... but typically anyone who takes those feats opts to gain the benefit constantly...

As far as I am concerned, a penalty is a negative bonus. I would rather add a couple more lines to the misc section than add a whole other section just for penalties. How many lines do we need there? Currently have 6. I'll change the abbreviation to AC Pen. I'd rather spell it all out but it's too long and won't fit in there nicely. :( Going to leave the campaign up with no changes for a bit longer to see if more folk want to comment. (That and I need to work on campaign prep so won't be working on programming the 3.5 sheet any further this weekend.)

Well, since no one has had any additional comments in the last week, I'm pushing the tabbed sheet to live. It will update once Roll20 merges the commit on GitHub and the Roll20 site updates. It has the encumbrance/load stuff, the additional AC stuff, a couple of fixes to the NPC sheet, all as I have on the sheet in it's current iteration on my testbed. I do not have anything in yet for untrained skills; I think I've figured out what I want to do with it (and I think it should be possible), but haven't figured out how to do it yet. Need to do more reading on html/css I guess (or beg in the css tricks thread :D ). Hope you like it.

This update is really neat! I showed the updated character sheet to my group, and they love it. Tabs will save our spellcasters so much time scrolling down, and the encumbrance changes take a load off of my shoulders as DM. Thank you!

Diana P said: Well, since no one has had any additional comments in the last week, I'm pushing the tabbed sheet to live. It will update once Roll20 merges the commit on GitHub and the Roll20 site updates. It has the encumbrance/load stuff, the additional AC stuff, a couple of fixes to the NPC sheet, all as I have on the sheet in it's current iteration on my testbed. I do not have anything in yet for untrained skills; I think I've figured out what I want to do with it (and I think it should be possible), but haven't figured out how to do it yet. Need to do more reading on html/css I guess (or beg in the css tricks thread :D ). Hope you like it. You could add just a small square (■) beside their names. since untrained do not change! Their status is determinded by the srd rules. No scripting required!

Ok. For now, just added an asterisk (*) next to the trained-only skill names. Also there is one set of data which will go missing from the sheets when they change over; the class skills buttons will all reset and will need to be re-checked. edit: one way to do this is to go into the Attributes & Abilities tab and change all the &lt;skill&gt;classskill attributes from 'Class' to '1'. Otherwise, just re-check the boxes.

Diana P said: Ok. For now, just added an asterisk (*) next to the trained-only skill names. Also there is one set of data which will go missing from the sheets when they change over; the class skills buttons will all reset and will need to be re-checked. edit: one way to do this is to go into the Attributes & Abilities tab and change all the &lt;skill&gt;classskill attributes from 'Class' to '1'. Otherwise, just re-check the boxes. that's ok! :) I have another question! How do we manage multiclass/prestige class? As far as level, skills, etc..

My group puts the classes (bard/rogue, fighter/cleric, etc) in the Class area and (6/4, 8/2, etc) in the level section. The total level (10) in the HD box. If they bother changing the Class boxes, they change it to the class they took most recently. This is one of the reasons why I can't autocalc skill points spent; there would have to be some page with all the skills listed and what class/level you were/whether it was a class skill etc to keep track of costs. And since I can't use repeating section and have those sum, I'd have to hard code in a certain number of levels. And I can't use table lookups to find whether it is a class skill or not, that would have to be input for each level, etc. I could see that easily tripling or more the size of the sheet. Sorry, I won't be coding that. We actually still use our original HeroForge spreadsheets to keep track of a lot of that for our characters; only need it when leveling and it gives us a backup-copy of our characters 'just in case'.

Just got notification that the changes have been merged into the master database on GitHub. Once the next Roll20-Github refresh goes through, the tabbed sheet will be live. :)

Diana P said: Just got notification that the changes have been merged into the master database on GitHub. Once the next Roll20-Github refresh goes through, the tabbed sheet will be live. :) Great news!

Awesome! Can't wait to see the new version. I'm pretty new to roll20, but your sheet seems very easy to use for most things; it sounds like some of the things that are difficult are going to get easier with the new version. Also, in regards to switching the ability modifier a skill uses. Undead use charisma for concentration. I have modified the concentration macro with -conmod +chamod already, but doing that in all of the spells is somewhat annoy, and the total bonus field shows an inaccurate value... I had not thought of creating a custom skill like "UndeadConcentration" that uses Cha instead, I will try that out.... *steps away to do some testing* I put in @{bluff} into the ranks bit and it read that just fine... so a workaround I could do is to subtract the conmod and add the custom skill's value in the ranks or misc box, that way anything that wants to use the character's concentration gets the correct value. That brings me to the question of how one goes about getting the value of a custom skill: Diana P, I saw your post about accessing the spells, where do I go to find the syntax for the repeating section for skills? Also, undead do not have a Constitution, other than putting in 10 for the base and just remembering that undead don't actually have any, how does one represent that? (since the default math gets -5 mod for a deathly low score, instead of +0 that I understand a non-existent one to yield) I don't think these are that big of a deal, but perhaps these situations can help with the development. Oh, I almost forgot, could you add a "weapon" box or two specifically for dealing with touch and ranged touch attacks? I think that would make some spell calculations easier to do and cleaner to look at. I'm currently planning to give up one of the 6 weapons that are currently implemented and modify it into a calculator touch attacks, but this might be useful to people as a native implementation in the sheet. Thank you for your amazing work, keep it up! -W.

One way to deal with the constitution-mod for an undead (which will confuse all kinds of things if not used carefully) is: regardless of what is shown in the auto-calculated values (the fields you cannot change) on the sheet, if you manually make an entry on the Attributes & Abilities tab with the same name, that will over-write the calculated value when the value is used in calculations. At least until Roll20 changes that behavior. It is possible to make a custom Attribute with the name con-mod and give it a value of '0' which should then over-write all the con-mod values in other calculations. I recommend great caution with this method though because if you forget that's what you did, it can cause all kinds of confusion later. for custom skills: @{selected|character_name} @{selected|repeating_skills_0_otherskillname} check: [[1d20 +@{selected|repeating_skills_0_otherskillstat} +@{selected|repeating_skills_0_otherskillranks} +@{selected|repeating_skills_0_otherskillarmorcheckpen} +@{selected|repeating_skills_0_otherskillmiscmod}]] is the full syntax for a skill check. (output for this snippet: Name test skill check: 24) You can not use the total bonus column by itself; you must recreate the calculation for the check roll unless you want to just use the roll button on the sheet itself. That's a limitation of the repeating section. Also even though it looks like the boxes are pre-filled with zeros, they are really empty; you have to click on and adjust each number/box in the roll. Including the ability drop-down. There are a total of 10 weapon boxes on the new sheet. I wasn't planning on adding any hard-coded (if you would) attacks in; I already have calculations for melee attack bonus (meleeattackbonus) and ranged attack bonus (rangedattackbonus) which can be used directly in macros for attacks/spells ie the attack portion of the Produce Flame spell might look something like: &{template:DnD35Attack} {{pcflag=true}} {{name=@{character_name}}} {{subtags=reaches out and touches his target with the flames. }} {{attack1=He hits touch AC [[d20+[[@{meleeattackbonus}]] ]]}} {{fumbleroll=Fumble:[[d20]]}} {{damage1=for [[1d6+{@{casterlevel},5}dh1]] fire damage.}} The melee and ranged attack bonuses are below the BAB and grapple sections on the Abilities tab. Those two boxes are not directly used in the pre-set weapon calculations so any modifiers to them would not affect the weapon attacks.