Small, Tiny, Even Smaller Tokens

In Pathfinder and 3.5, you have creatures that are "smaller" than the single unit of 5 feet. Cool, simple enough, I can just resize the token with the Alt key and get a smaller one. I'm having two issues with this: 1) The resized token seems to be snapping to the bottom right corner of the cell it is placed in... it should be the center. 2) Resizing a small token can be kind of tricky — shrink it too small and it vanishes altogether and you have to bring a new token out of the library. Solutions below for voting:

Small tokens should snap to the center of the grid, not the bottom right corner.

Tokens that get too small should STOP shrinking at the point when they would normally vanish, and that should reflect whatever the minimum practical token size is for Roll20's limitations.

A "small" size (and perhaps a "tiny" size) would be nice for snapping tokens when you shrink them. Rather than having to hold Alt whilst resizing all my goblins, it would be nice if just shrinking the medium token a little "snapped" it down to small.

If you hold alt when moving the token it wont snap at all. But it wold be awesome to see a size setting on the tokens for not just small/tiny but all the way up to colossal

Just create smaller versions of the said tokens.

I don't really understand the use. I suppose that if a dragon is ten times larger than a human, its token is drawn ten times larger? I am also a little lost with your descriptions, what would be the ratio between small, normal, colossal,...? A percentage would be more accurate, I suppose?

To abstract the problem for roll20 in general - it's nice to snap to grid but sometimes the grid isn't resolute enough. Half-unit and quarter-unit grid snapping would be helpful for GMs who want 1 unit to represent the PC but still want to visualize size discrepancies without editing the token's source and without "freehanding it" with the ALT key jammed down. I don't really understand the use. I suppose that if a dragon is ten times larger than a human, its token is drawn ten times larger? In d20, a creature's size (small, medium, large, etc.), space (the amount of 5x5 squares they take up on a grid), and reach (the border around their space that they can attack) all affect combat modifiers. Although creatures smaller than a human's medium size occupy the same 5x5 space, they get bonuses to Attack rolls and Armor Class when battling larger creatures. The modifiers are based on size discrepancy and ramp up drastically - being able to literally show the size difference would be helpful. For example, remembering that goblins are Small and get +1 bonuses (to AC, Attack, Hide, etc.) versus most of the party members makes up for how weak they are at low levels. Alternatively, noting the party's Halfling's size (small) against the angry ogrillion (large) grants the little guy +4 bonuses versus the monster, enough to save him from getting crushed to goo next to the splattered remains of his medium-sized compatriots.

Ok. I suppose that there is a definition of the number of squares a creature occupies normally. One square for a human obviously, and so on. I think it would be clearer for graphics to speak about tokens in pixels or squares, because tiny/large/... are probably too specific for D20. Ok, let's imagine the human is drawn at the scale of one square (70px per square). I say scale of one square purposefully, because he can occupy a space a little different than just one square if his arm is extended, or whatever. So, this human is going to be a token of something like 65X92 pixels (just an exemple). And a halfling drawn at the same scale would be maybe 45X70 pixels, in correct proportion. Now you have an ogre. Let's say he is big and that big is 2X2 squares (I don't know, just an example). Being an ogre, he has been drawn much larger than the human. So, he is maybe 135X 160 pixels. You don't really need any resizing, because they are all in correct proportions. So, both the visual representation and the effects on play that you describe should both work correctly or am I wrong? But, anyway, you would just need a (right-click on the tokens-advanced-set dimensions) if you wanted a controlled resize (for example, if you wanted the human above upsized to the same scale as the ogre, you would just enter 130X184 pixels, and if you wanted him at a half scale, you would enter 63X46 pixels). If you have the correct size for your tokens, snapping is just a question of movement that can be avoided by moving with Alt key. I don't know if I am really clear. I'll add an example if needed. I am probably missing something because I don't really see a problem.

Most of the assets available in the marketplace are those nifty, obscurely-sized, top-down tokens, which makes scaling (and, by extension, this idea of snapping) a total pain. When I think tokens, I go immediately to "A picture in a circle meant to fit the grid." So... a medium creature (human) always fits exactly into a 1 unit x 1 unit. a tall large creature (ogre) is always 2x2, a long large creature (horse) is always 2x1, and so on. So maybe the solution is when "snap-scaling" a token, it's relative to the token size and not to the grid? Man, that got way more complicated than anticipated. Maybe it's just time for me to abandon my circle tokens, or resign to setting dimensions and then Copy/Pasting all my small minions. Having those small tokens align in their squares centered would be nice, though. (4 tiny creatures should fit in a 1x1 square, but screw it - mobs of tiny creatures suck anyway.)

Yes, had same issue trying to resize to small (vanishing token). A small and smaller setting would be nice.

I think that you are using tokentool? You could set it to 70 pixels for one square, they shall always snap easily within it (meaning your humans shall be 70x70; your ogre 140x140). For tokens smaller than 70 pixels, you can move them without snapping if you want more than one in a square. And you can make a tokentool frame to center one in a square if you want. At the time I was using portraits tools, I had even made a special mounted "token frame" for tokentool (2x2 squares) that enabled me to have all my tokens mounted and unmounted (see here under, the mounted version is a 2x2 squares token). Don't forget that you can set manually the dimensions of any token in Roll20. So there should be no reason to abandon your circle ones if you prefer them. I am now using top-down tokens. Resizing is not so bad as long as you remember that there is a difference between a 70 pixels size and a 70 pixels scale.

I always use a might higher resolution in token tool than it necessary because I like things to look great zoomed in.

I was normally using 128 pixels/square scale in Maptool (see token here) and played at around 50% display. After a while in Roll20 (at 70px/square scale) I think that it was probably a little overkill. 70 px scale maps and tokens can suffer a 150% display without losing too much quality.

I have a possible idea for you: Create tiny creature icons where 3/4 of the icon is transparent and the creature is in one corner of the icon. The below icon is an example: T represents transparent while C is the tiny creature TT TC Now, when you place a tiny creature icon on top of a another tiny creature icon you can rotate them so you see both. Eventually you can fit all 4 of them, each rotated in a different direction. CT TC - Gauss

Create tiny creature icons where 3/4 of the icon is transparent and the creature is in one corner of the icon. - Gauss Yeah, that's the hack I'm rolling with right now. It works fine.

I still think that the "disappearing shrinkers" issue needs to be addressed, regardless of token size and game rules.

I have found that you can use the ALT key to shrink tokens to a smaller size also, I tried this with a simple skull token I wanted to set on a table and found I could shrink it fairly small, even copy and paste it.