Faction Points versus Random Loot

Hey everybody, So in the never-ending pursuit of perfecting the art of DMing I've come up against my oldest green-eyed nemesis: the Loot Beast. I would say that, being conservative, 30% of D&D is centered around loot. The issue has always been how to distribute it. Include random loot drops into a campaign where there is no real unifying element to bind the party together and this issue is compounded. In the last campaign I simply allowed Uncommon magic items to be bought for 500g and gave out raw cash to keep it simple. That worked a little too well due to a heavy cash flow and the campaign got a little top-heavy from all the magic items. So I've come up with something different for this module-campaign but I'd like some feedback. It's a system where you gain in Renown for completing quests and making a name for yourself. Your faction rewards you with magic items as your rank/status improves. In essence they are investing in your future success as you continue your good works in their name. The concept is that you gain a Faction Point each time you complete a major quest. You spend Faction Points to gain magic items. You can accumulate Faction Points to buy more powerful magic items. This occurs in-game as your faction contact rewarding you with magic items that you can use. However, as you'll see from the spreadsheet these items will still be quite rare. The idea is to remove the drama over loot split going forward. However, I realize that for some people random loot drops are far more interesting than just choosing a magic item and getting it. So I'm thinking that each player can choose one of two systems: Faction Points or Module Loot. This choice is permanent. I will continue to have items drop according to the module. Those players who choose Faction Points have no claim to these dropped items. Those players who prefer the randomness of dropped items can then discuss how they want to handle loot split as the items drop. If nobody in the party chooses Random Loot then I will just ignore the items that drop in that session and carry them over to a future adventure so that the module loot remains intact. I threw something together on the calendar: <a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zsq7mvy04s" rel="nofollow">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zsq7mvy04s</a>... Keep in mind I pulled the point costs out of my posterior and they are subject to change. So take those values with a grain of salt. Items that are associated with a specific faction allows members of that faction to buy the item for 1 less Faction Point (minimum 1 obviously), but that's an additional component that I may keep or trash. What do you guys think?

There's another aspect of this I want to clarify. The eight hour sessions are killing me! I'm working hard on segmenting the adventures into 2-3 hours (maybe 4 with roleplay). I have to do this to accommodate the module as it includes a heavy dose of random encounters associated with travel, but it also gives me a chance to say, "Okay, that's enough for one session." So I want to be clear on how this ruling would work. Let's say you show up for the first session, which is basically clearing out the entry-way for the dungeon, but then can't make it for any subsequent sessions. You would still gain that Faction Point for being involved in the adventure in any way once it gets complete. This has always been true for Quest Complete XP; it would be the same for Faction Point awards.

As I told you earlier, I see both positives and negatives to this system. That being said, I'm definitely down to give it a try. I do worry how cash loot will be handled if there are random loot items that drop and several people snag all of them and the rest of us have to split a small amount of coin, but with not having to buy items like the last campaign that may just be a moot point. It will hit the spell casters hardest I think, having to buy spells and some expensive components, but I trust you'll take care of us. I do like the clarification about participation in the quest and gaining the completion reward, thanks for clearing that up.

I think faction points are a fair way to do things, my only real gripe being immersion-related, but there needs to be a compromise I suppose. There's a few concerns I have. Balance. The value of items really needs to be dialed in the prevent a massive amount of magic items going around. I'm not sure exactly how many points you planned on giving per quest, but assuming you get 1 point per low level quest, the current values seem really cheap. A magic item should be given out every 4 or 5 levels, I think. At this rate, that equates to about 8 quests. So, if you gave 1 point per quest and the base price of uncommon items were 8 points(save potions and scrolls), that'd work out fairly well. At later levels and rarities, you could just up the costs and rewards. So, 2 points for 6-10 level quests and 16 points for a rare item, 3 points for 11-15 level quests and 32 points for very rare items, and 4 points for 16-20 level quests and 64 points for legendary items. Gold inflation. With no magic items to buy, gold begins to pile up even if our rewards are fairly balanced right now. I think we're safe for now and healing potions make a good money sink, but if you allow people to sell their magic items for a lot, that could change. Not to mention that the rewards from a Robe of Useful Items can be sold for almost 2,000g. Maybe instead of selling them for gold, they're sold back for faction points. New characters. How many faction points do new characters get? If the average level is 8, it won't be very fair to give new characters no magic items when everyone else will have around 2. New characters should start with a base faction points along with their base XP.

I think this is starting to look like a decent system, though ultimately your choice of course. (Making that spreadsheet complete with all magic items is going to take some time, I wager.) Many people I think will choose the Faction Point system so they can get what they want, meaning there will be less people using the Module Loot, which in turn gives less people remaining to discuss how to divide the magical items that drop in a session. As for myself, I want to be amused (and have you guys be amused) and surprised much more than I want to min/max my character, but still be able to keep up with the group. Module Loot it is for me. I know I can be reasonable dividing things. If I just have some useful Faction contacts, I'm more than happy.

Just to clarify one more thing: When I say Module Loot I'm referring to the magic items only. Not the cash. Money is still split evenly as always. With the cash flow I'm seeing so far things like Alchemist's Fire, Holy Water, Hunting Traps, Poison, and Potion of Healing are still good cash sinks. Magic items cannot be sold no matter where you got them. There simply isn't a market for them. If you decide you're done with a magic item that you found then it goes into the War Room or Study of your mansion since you've clearly won at adventuring. Or it goes back to your Faction for another up-and-coming adventurer to make use of. You gain 1 Faction Point for completing a major quest. There won't be more than one major quest per weekend, and sometimes not even that. So at most you could get 4 Faction Points in a month which I think is fair. I haven't looked forward that far into the module to see how the loot drops line up yet so that's also subject to change. What I'm not sure about is trading dropped magic items. For example there's a warlock and a rogue in the party when adamantine plate drops. What do they do with it? At this point the list is only Uncommon items, minus the flying ones. It's actually super easy to build that list. <a href="http://donjon.bin.sh/5e/magic_items/" rel="nofollow">http://donjon.bin.sh/5e/magic_items/</a> Click Rarity to Uncommon. Copy the page. Paste to Excel. Done.

"There won't be more than one major quest per weekend, and sometimes not even that." The thing I'm worried about with that is that someone could be unlucky and get into every session except for the one that gives faction points. That happened a lot last campaign with treasure where one session is pretty dry and the next gets a 1k+ haul and tons of magic items.

Already addressed. Re-read the second paragraph of the second post.

One thing that I have to ask is how is this system going to work with items like admantine armor or other items that ha've a different base stats and values? Will you need to add the base value in addition to the points? Need to pay more points? overall I think it's a nice system that needs to be polished a bit; what about magic items that are not from your faction? I'm assuming trading magic items is off limits from balance and story point of view, otherwise the 1 less point for the faction can be abused.

Good points Drizet. For Plate armor I think the Faction would already know your measurements and have it ready to go. The idea behind Faction Points is that your faction contact has it ready to hand over to you as a reward for a job well done. I had considered the concept of some characters getting items at a lower Faction Point cost and then trading them to other characters in the campaign. I like this idea and I don't see it as abuse. I see it all in-character as two people who value each others' friendship over any faction loyalties (hence the trust in spending Faction Points for someone else) and I approve of that.

Well.. When you look at it this way it sounds legit and completely positive, I just thought you didn't want to sell magic items so there won't be a market between us like a guy from a faction would be some kind of a specific magic item dealer haha. anyways when you put trading magic items this way it can definitely increase in character friendship development (and concourse make it easier on us getting the magic item we want :)

That's another good point though Drizet: I don't allow trading magic items when they're obsolete. You'd have to arrange this trade ahead of time and once done it's final. (Kind of like a pre-attunement). A couple other things of note that have come up: 1) I haven't memorized every drop in the module. I have no idea how things line up with the point costs I have chosen for the Faction Loot system. So the idea is you can gamble by choosing random drops or go for the guarantee and choose Faction Loot. This is exactly the same choice you have when rolling for hit points or choosing median. 2) I will basically follow the module with this concept: When the module calls for magic item drops I will award a Faction Point. However, I will not award bonus Faction Points; it's always only 1 point. This is to reflect the added risk/reward of gambling on the random loot. If the module calls for a Rare item to drop it makes no difference to those who choose Faction Points; everybody gets 1. 2a) If I find that people have read ahead in the module and know what is going to drop I may begin rolling randomly on the random loot table in the DMG to preclude this. Further, if I find that people are reading ahead in the module more bad things will happen to their character as the gods do not approve of foresight outside of their knowledge.

I've never liked random loot.

Due to the nature of this campaign I'm seeing another issue popping up: lack of magic items. With most players participating with two characters, and attrition in the campaign (a normal symptom of the campaign style), there aren't enough magic items. The module assumes a certain amount of magic items within the party since it is written for a static group that accumulates them. So I'm proposing a new component to Random Loot, but I want to know what you guys think first: The Armory Magic items that drop to groups of all Faction Pointers just vanish into nothingness. But the module assumes these items to be present so what if unclaimed magic items go to the Armory? The Armory is where all the random loot people go at the start of the session and pick items out. How they handle distribution is, as always, up to them. Magic items are returned to the Armory at the end of each session so it's always stocked for the next session, even if an adventure is still in play. (Remember: they're magic! ) Also, magic items that belong to characters who do not play for 4 weeks or more are sent to the Armory. If/When those characters return, their magic items are returned to them of course. Spell Sharing Related, but not combined, with the Armory is Spell Sharing. It seems to me that wizards in the campaign (or anyone with the Spell Book feature) might be willing to share spells. There have been several scrolls that have dropped that a wizard would be assumed to know. But with the campaign style there are a lot of opportunities for wizards to miss out on these drops. So what if there were a Master Spell Book at the Feathergale Spire where wizards are assumed to copy spells into their personal books? They still have to pay the cost to copy the spell into their book of course, but at least it increases spellbook size for wizards who may miss scroll drops. What do you guys think?

Sounds like a reasonable compromise to me. I like both ideas.

Both seem like very solid / logical solutions. The dude abides.

I love the idea of a master library at the Spire and that is something that Mystra would encourage Kelyn to do.&nbsp; She encourages her priests to preserve magical knowledge and spread magic across the land after all. Edit - Oh, the idea of the unclaimed magical items being used by the Alliance in our battles against the evil cultists is Mystra approved also!

Quinn would of course support the sharing of knowledge as would be expected of any Oghmaite and he could always find a use for magical items&nbsp; Personally i think its a great solution to the problem!