This post has been closed. You can still view previous posts, but you can't post any new replies.

Edit Grid Pixel Size

1355394008

Permalink Quote

Hey folks, I'd like to be able to edit the grid's pixel size. Currently, each square is locked to 70px x 70px. To give you an idea about why this is an issue, let me explain what I would like to be able to do. I would like to be able to use a tilemapping program (<a href="http://www.mapeditor.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.mapeditor.org/</a>) to create my campaigns maps. The current problem is that the standard tileset is of a multiple of 8x8 (ex. 16x16, 32x32, 64x64, etc). There is not a single tileset online that is 70x70. This makes anything I produce look incorrect once I bring it into roll20. TL;DR Being able to edit the grid pixel size would allow for the use of tilemaps to create backgrounds. Allow us to edit it or make it a universal standard (multiple of 8px by 8px)

1355397309

Forum Champion

Permalink Quote

Have you tried to use the Align to Grid tool? - Gauss

1355403501

Permalink Quote

That tool is near worthless when using larger maps given that we're unable to edit the values after measuring. Even being off by a single pixel is enough to throw off the grid on the map and it's rather frustrating to use. You're forced to hack at it with the scaling handles that scale out from the center instead of the way most people expect images to scale. If there's even a small amount of grid left or above the map, as in not a complete square... it really, really makes it more difficult to align properly. All in all, this is the weakest area of Roll20 and could use a complete overhaul.

1355404225

Forum Champion

Permalink Quote

Jonathan, I personally (am not speaking for Roll20) disagree even on larger maps. I have had little problem with the align to grid tool on large maps. Perhaps I am doing something differently. My steps: Step 1: Increase the map size to about 1000 by 1000. Step 2: Expand the map image to fit that Step 3: Use the align to grid tool normally. Step 4: Use Alt to adjust the map my moving the map image grid to match the placement of the Roll20 grid. Step 5: Return the map size to just bigger than the map image. If on a large map there is still a bit of discrepancy far away I can either retry the above and attempt to get a closer fit or I can just use Alt+move the map when the players reach that section of the map. This will keep the map on the grid in the section it is being used. Other alternatives: Trim the edges so that incomplete grids are not on the map image. Turn off the grid. Use Alt while holding down the scaling handles. Adjust the map image using the 'Set Dimensions' tool in order to make minor adjustments to the map. While this takes a bit more time an experimentation it usually results in exact fit. Note, you will need to use Alt to reposition the map after using the 'Set Dimensions' tool, then evaluate the change. I am not saying there isnt a learning curve here but I have found this to be a much easier to use map system than other VTTs I have tried. Much quicker and easier to take a map from a PDF and put it in the game. I am also not saying that there is not room for improvement. There always is. :) - Gauss

1355404975

Permalink Quote

You shouldn't have to edit a map in another program. You shouldn't have to scale a map a half dozen times or more. You shouldn't have to use alt to scale and position a map. You shouldn't have to stop using the grid. You shouldn't have to change the size of the map using set dimensions. The simplest solution is to let us specify the size of the grid in pixels.

1355407031

Forum Champion

Permalink Quote

JonathanTheBlack: It is your choice to feel that way, but my advice is accurate. You can get a map, any map with an accurate grid, to fit Roll20 with the above information. Align to grid gets you close, Alt will allow you to move the map in case the map has incomplete grid edges, and Set Dimensions will allow you to tweak a map just slightly in order to match the grid even more closely. I have yet to see a large map that I cannot get to match. While I am not saying that the idea is not a good one, it probably is, I am saying that using current tools the same thing can be accomplished. Some people may not be aware of all of these tools and it is those people I am trying to assist. - Gauss

1355433693

Permalink Quote

The current tool is unwieldy and a kludge that doesn't work properly. It is near impossible to get the tool to align up properly on the first try which should be the goal of using that tool.

1355433834

Forum Champion

Permalink Quote

Well, we will have to agree to disagree then. In approximately 5 minutes I can get just about any map I have tried to line up. If you would like me to come show you how I would be happy to do so. - Gauss

1355440679

Sheet Author

Permalink Quote

I made up this tutorial some time which takes a rather large map and aligns it perfectly to the grid: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlS7cZ0vxIA" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlS7cZ0vxIA</a>

1355441163

Permalink Quote

It shouldn't take five minutes. I can take any map and have it aligned to the grid in maptool in less than a minute because I can edit the grid size. It's much simpler and fool proof.

1355442555

Pro

API Scripter

Permalink Quote

I haven't had any luck aligning the grid on larger maps either.

1355460951

Permalink Quote

I make my maps to fit to the grid, which eliminates any problems. If your map is an exact size in squares, it should snap and size itself in incredibly easily.

1355467396

Permalink Quote

Most maps from the internet aren't perfect gridded however. There is often a partial border around them that is not the full width of the grid square. This makes it very difficult to use off the cuff if you need a map suddenly due to unexpected player decisions or events.

1355470925

KS Backer

Permalink Quote

The point JonathanTheBlack is making, I think, is that Roll20 lacks what (to him, and to me, and it seems to some others) is the lower-effort and friendlier solution to this problem. Instead of asking me to scale and adjust my maps and tiles, which come from everywhere and are in all different sizes, let me adjust one setting in the VTT. It would make the experience of creating a map (IMO) much more pleasant. Perhaps this is a programming issue, similar to how the devs had mentioned that center-anchored scaling was put in place because the alternative is difficult when the overhauled the system. Having a fixed, Roll20-specific grid size does encourage traffic to the marketplace for assets, but other than that I remain unsure why the grid isn't made flexible.

1355472643

Forum Champion

Permalink Quote

Pat E.: If you would like send me a message to my Inbox and I can show you how to align the grid to large maps. The following is me speaking as a user and not a Moderator: Chris Clouser: I personally agree that the suggestion is a good one. I had not ever said it is not. With that said the current system IS workable even if it is not the simplest system to use. That was not a declaration of 'it works and therefore should not be fixed'. The problem here is that I was trying to help the OP get his maps aligned (if that is the problem the OP was having) when Jonathan came in with a statement that the existing tools are worthless. Cumbersome? Perhaps. Worthless? No way. Any map can be aligned with the existing tools. In any case, it is not productive for me to sit here and debate this so this will be my last post on this topic that is not a post to try to help people. If anyone would like me to show them how to better align their maps send me a message and I will come help. - Gauss

1355473136

Permalink Quote

The tool is worthless until we can edit the results we get from using it. If we could edit the results when it shows the guesstimated grid size, it would actually be worth using... but as I've said many times, even being off one pixel is enough to completely screw up the alignment of the map and make the tool an aggravating exercise in frustration.

1355473910

Forum Champion

Permalink Quote

Jonathan: You can edit the results using Set Dimensions. - Gauss

1355474634

Permalink Quote

I'm talking about the pop up results when you use the tool, where it guesses what the grid size it. Almost every time, it's like 35x36 or 34x37 which is one... not square... and two... not right. If we could edit those numbers when they pop up and then click to resize, it would actually be a useful tool. Instead, it's easier for me to use gimp or photoshop, chop off the borders, and re-size to 70 x number of squares in pixels. That's the opposite of how it should work. The inherent inaccuracy of the grid tool and the annoying scale from center is counter-intuitive and clunky for re-sizing maps. Especially when we already know what the grid size is but cannot edit the grid size in Roll20 that is hardcoded at 70px.

1355477444

KS Backer

Permalink Quote

All in all, this is the weakest area of Roll20 and could use a complete overhaul. Agreed. Along with adding an auto-fit approach for background images and maps: Fit To Canvas/Make Canvas For Backgrounds <a href="http://community.roll20.net/discussion/1070/fit-to-canvasmake-canvas-for-backgrounds/p1" rel="nofollow">http://community.roll20.net/discussion/1070/fit-to-canvasmake-canvas-for-backgrounds/p1</a>

1355479772

Permalink Quote

I'm not sure, but I also think that aligning Hex Maps is a bit of a bother, especially for larger ones. I tried following the advice you gave above Gauss, but I'm kind of not sure I'm following them correctly. Do you have anything like a set of screenshots, or better yet, a video, that shows how to most easily align a Hex Map? That would be great. Right now I'm spending quite a bit of time trying to fidget it into place, and it's just not quite working, even with the use of the ALT key, and trying to pull the scale bars around, as well as trying to use the Align Map feature. For future reference, while I don't disagree with JonathanTheBlack in terms of "Yup, this could be a little easier", I think my solution would be to offer the user the ability to select "Grid Map" or "Hex Map", and allow the person to point and click the Polygon to its actual size (rather than trying to drag "Three Units" which on a hex map happens to be a bit confusing so far as instructions go), and THEN allow the user to fix the final result by setting the exact values in a dialog box as JonathanTheBlack suggests. Between those two, it should meet everyone's needs. Quick and efficient scaling of imported maps is kind of an important feature since the entire purpose of the tool is to use maps and be able to effectively move tokens around on it. If we have to futz around with it, it takes valuable time away from other more productive aspects of GMing setup... *especially* if you are trying to do this spontaneously during the game. Anyway, just my two cents... and over all I give roll20 a huge and friendly slap on the back - Job well done! Thanks!!! It really is awesome!

1355481557

Forum Champion

Permalink Quote

VB W. Unfortunately, my advice on aligning grids is geared towards Square grids rather than hexes. I apologize for having a hex blind spot and will work up how to fit hex grids. - Gauss

1355482314

Permalink Quote

Thanks! I have managed to cajole it into place. It is time consuming to get it at first, but after a while, and some trial and error, I did manage to get it. It was a matter of using the left side scale to get the width first, and then the top scaler to get the height. Even knowing this it takes some work to get it right. If I have to do it in-game... I'm not so sure I'd be willing to try it. Nothing bothers my players more than me futzing around with the computer while they're waiting to get to the action. Anyway, I hope you will consider our recommendations. I think a polygone sizer for the hex grids would work fine, if it can be done without too much trouble. I'm a programmer, so I know what "too much trouble" actually means. :)

1355482601

Forum Champion

Permalink Quote

VB W. I am only a moderator so I am not the one to consider anything other than how to help people and to poke the dragon from time to time. I have created a thread in Help and Support with some tips and tricks for map alignment. I will investigate the hex maps and post some help for those if I can. - Gauss

1355492013

Permalink Quote

Hey Gauss, your steps do function as a workaround for the issue I'm having. However, I simply wanted to suggest the possibility of editing the grid so that this workaround isn't even required. Ideally, editing a page to use 64px by 64px squares would mean I could simply drag-and-drop a map into roll20 and play.

1355492453

Forum Champion

Permalink Quote

Squizm, Im glad I could help. Regarding your suggestion, I am not part of the decisions to implement code changes. One of my jobs is to try to help folks use what we currently have available. :) - Gauss Edit: In case it is not clear, my attempt to help folks does not mean that the suggestions do not reach the Developers. They do. But in the meantime I am here to help use what we have.

1355557886

Permalink Quote

... it's easier for me to use gimp or photoshop, chop off the borders, and re-size to 70 x number of squares in pixels. That's the opposite of how it should work. That's what I also do, but I am not sure that it is the opposite of how it should work. It is easy, fast (just counting the squares and multiply by 70). Even easy fitting tools within Roll20 wouldn't work as good and fast. After all, even if you could choose the squares size, you would still have to crop the border in another program before use.

1355563712

Permalink Quote

No, if we could set the grid size it would be two steps. 1. Set grid size to match size of grid on map. 2. Alt+Move map to line up grids. The only time you would have to re-do step one would be if you didn't know what the grid size is. You could find that using the grid align tool, but not actually re-sizing the image.

1355579577

Permalink Quote

Ah, yes, no cropping then.

1355584359

Roll20 Team

Permalink Quote

Well, this thread seems to be getting rather long. I'm just going to pop in here and clear up a few things relating to the original post. I'm not going to attempt to answer all the back-and-forth because that would take me all day. I would like to be able to use a tilemapping program (<a href="http://www.mapeditor.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.mapeditor.org/</a>) to create my campaigns maps. The current problem is that the standard tileset is of a multiple of 8x8 (ex. 16x16, 32x32, 64x64, etc). There is not a single tileset online that is 70x70. This makes anything I produce look incorrect once I bring it into roll20. Tiled is a fun tool (I've used it in fact for other projects), but as far as I know you can easily adjust the grid size to whatever you want. (See attached image "Tiled.png"). If you set it to 70x70 I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work just fine. So are you saying it's not a tool issue, but a "resources" issue (e.g. tileset images themselves?) That being said, if you want to use a 32x32 grid in Roll20, you CAN change the size of the grid, by using the "Units" box next to the "Grid Enabled" checkbox in the Page Settings dialog. As an example, I created a new map in Tiled using a 32x32 tileset. I then changed my Grid Size in Roll20 to 32/70 = "0.45714285714286" (I pasted that value into the Grid Size box in Roll20 out of my Calculator app). I switched to the map layer and drag-and-dropped to upload the exported image from tiled (which I also attached to this post so you can test it, called "testtiledmap.png"). That gave me the screenshot attached ("Test Tiled.png"), which as you can see features the exported image from Tiled lined up perfectly with my Roll20 grid. So basically when you create the first page of the Campaign you have to do a little light math to figure out what the Grid Size should be. After that you can just use the handy "Duplicate Page" button to create new pages in the Campaign. Resizing and moving will line up to the grid just fine. For reference: 32x32 = "0.45714285714286" Grid Size 64x64 = "0.91428571428571" Grid Size Hope that helps. - RD

1355586915

Permalink Quote

The problem with using that method however is that it completely neuters the use of the measurement tool.

1355593678

Roll20 Team

Permalink Quote

The problem with using that method however is that it completely neuters the use of the measurement tool. Yeah, it does make it more difficult. You can use the opposite of that math to figure out what to use for scale, though. If I want every square to equal 5 ft, I can do 5/0.45714285714286 = 10.93749999999993, and use that number as the scale, and the measurement tool will correctly show 1 square = 5ft. Changing the grid size to be 32x32 is, to us, an advanced operation. You're working against what the software expects, and that's why you have to work a little harder to do it. Is it possible using the options you have available? Yes. Is it easy or recommended? Not really. With that said, if you do the math and set the Grid Size and the Scale to the appropriate values, it should work. - RD

1355596830

Permalink Quote

Why is changing the grid size an advanced operation?

1355829617

Permalink Quote

So are you saying it's not a tool issue, but a "resources" issue (e.g. tileset images themselves?) This is entirely accurate. As you mentioned, there are ways of working around this: - resizing your tileset to use 70x70 - resizing the grid using calculations - manual resizing of an image dropped in Each of these works like a champ. I simply started this fiasco...er thread to suggest the possible inclusion of this feature in future iterations of Roll20 :)

1