Am I doing my LFP thread wrong?

For your reference:&nbsp; <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/2830615/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/2830615/</a> I spent several hours adapting my successful pencil and paper version to roll20, googling assets, programming macros and learning the user interface. All the while naively imagining how I will select from the hundreds of players that will be begging to play my game. After that I posted in every LFG that explicitly stated a willingness to learn new systems active within the last week. Results: I have one interested player who, through private messages, seems either disinterested or doesn't understand my request for availabilities. That is all. In reflection, there are some possible causes of my lack of success, but I'm quite new to the whole roll20 culture, so I may be overtly breaking some guideline or norm that long-time visitors know to be social suicide. Still, possible negative factors include: -The roll20 community expect combat and maps as "theatre of the mind" players may have abandoned roll20 years ago to form some other community more suited to their needs. -1 response per 24 hours may be a good average, so I just need to wait another week to get 7 more. -Failure to commit to a time and day may have put off players who don't want to spend days trying to figure out when everyone can make it. -I explicitly stated to not have a preference between GMing for serious characters and GMing for stupid characters. Maybe both camps refuse to spend any time invested in an activity that may involve a member of the other camp. (Understandably so. Some people only get fun from one style and not the other.) -Maybe I haven't yet earned my stripes, because I still haven't chosen an avatar and my stats show me to be a roll20 n00b. -Maybe I have poorly explained what my game is, and a better explanation would have helped. Any assistance towards this would be greatly appreciated. Let me know.

You posted an LFP for what appears to be a completely untested homebrewed rpg. You're going to have a difficult time finding players. If you posted an LFP for something like 5th edition D&D, you'd have no problems finding players.

Fair call. Yeah, I can run more popular systems. Pathfinder's Kingmaker was an adventure path I ran for many months. Then I grew out of combat. Waiting five minutes to find out what happens 6 seconds later is not my idea of fun, no matter how creative and descriptive those five minutes were. I always gaged my performance as a GM by asking players to summarize the events of the previous week, and the memorable events never happened during 6-second combat rounds. So I created a new system that skips combat and character stats entirely, and I found it much more enjoyable to run. Players that loved the role play side of the game liked my version more, and players that liked gaining levels and weapon shopping... Well, I don't miss them.

Should I have clarified that it has been tested with two different groups?&nbsp;

Your thread title is extremely generic. It's the first thing people see when making a decision about playing your game or not, and gives them zero actual information. Every &nbsp;game needs to figure out what time to meet, so asking what time people are available is a useless title. Most people won't even click the link to find out what game you're playing at all. Be as succinct as possible while still relaying as much important information as you can. In this case, the fact that you've got a homebrew system rather than something mainstream is very important, so that should be in the title. The campaign is also set in the Fallout universe, which is popular; putting that information in your title should help, as well. Something along the lines of "Homebrew system Fallout game" should get you more interested viewers than "What's a good time for you?"

Hi&nbsp; Jon C. - we've got two threads in the LFG forum ( What Makes a Great LFG and&nbsp; LFG Read First ) you may want to check out (if you have not already) and you may also consider&nbsp; adding your game to our LFG Tool . In reference to your previous question, I think clarity and comparison would be a great way to begin your next post. Clarity on your testing and rules and some kind of comparison to other popular games to help folks get a better understanding of what they might be playing. You may also consider a TL;DR for people who aren't willing to read it all. Wishing you luck on your next search!

Actually, it's not set in the Fallout universe at all. Had a couple of players very disappointed to hear that no fallout tech existed, and all modern day tech did. This is a universe where Fallout fandom created an underground society, but the tech never eventuates. Thanks everyone for the tips, and I'll keep it in mind for next time, but creating the whole post again with those changes would probably be SPAM at this point. I honestly do not believe that a full party's worth of great players overlooked my post because of a poor subject line and overly long description. Maybe one or two, but I'm not running the game just for two players. Avacyn, do you honestly believe the LFG tool will succeed where the LFG forum has failed? If not, what other communities do you know that would embrace a light theatre of the mind system?

the looking for group tool is good but still follows suit with people's wants. &nbsp;You're not running D&D, so not as many people would be willing to play. I run a cortex classic game, and whenever I recruit, its like pulling teeth to get good reliable players. &nbsp;(takes a week to recruit 1 person, and that person may drop out for various reasons, so is almost like 3 weeks per person) I've had the best luck on /r/lfg (reddit.com/r/lfg) These forums don't reflect the user base in sheer numbers, as a lot of people have their 'groups' already and only touch the forums for like bug issues and things. &nbsp; And if worried about spam, just delete your last post (delete the first post in the thread) and create a new one. &nbsp;No one is going to get puffed up about you posting two LFP messages over the course of 2-3 days. The LFG tool also takes 2-3 hours for your game to appear, and don't click the 18+ unless you plan on running a sex sim or Postal 4.

Jon, I've run dozens of games in Play by Post forums and one game here on roll20. I say one game on Roll20 because it was the only game of several that I ran with only a Roll20 recruitment.&nbsp; In all my games, no matter the system, I get plenty of responses. My second game on Roll20 filled up in one day (asked for 3 players, got 8) after using the Looking for Group tool. So, here's my suggestions in response to your OP. Take it for what you will... First, your title is too vague. Try something like: [LFG] 3 players needed for Home Brew d6&nbsp;game in [INSERT GENRE] Under System: Put all of your actual system in a google doc or such and link to it. The wall of text is a turn off for most players.&nbsp; Under Style: Most people would call "off the rails" a Sand Box game. I suggest not talking so much about splitting up the game for multiple campaigns. It kind of sounds like you don't care if your players are vested in the story or not. I know that splitting up the game might be a reality, but don't advertise that. Also, I would say not to call characters stupid or sensible. That's far to subjective and what I might call stupid, you might call sensible. I usually state what my desired feel for the game is. For example, dark and moody, upbeat and campy or serious and realistic.&nbsp; Under Backstory: Your idea is interesting, to me at least. One of the things I've done in my PbP games is present the backstory from an NPC's first person perspective, in character. It can really demonstrate the color and feel you are looking for in a group of characters. Yes, I realize that you're not doing a play by post. But I did the same thing for my last game on rolll20.&nbsp; About your Reflections: " The roll20 community expect combat and maps as "theatre of the mind" players may have abandoned roll20 years ago to form some other community more suited to their needs." I would say this isn't true. Both of my games have been map free/macro free. Much more cinematic in nature "-1 response per 24 hours may be a good average, so I just need to wait another week to get 7 more." My experience says that you need to be near the top of the LFG forum page to get traction there. It isn't a place where people shop page by page. They either see what they are interested in on the first page or two, or they just wait till it shows up later. The "search" tool isn't your friend in this regard.&nbsp; - Failure to commit to a time and day may have put off players who don't want to spend days trying to figure out when everyone can make it. This is absolutely true. Why would someone invest time and energy into pre game efforts just to find out that the rest of the party is 8 hours later than themselves? For most people, time zones matter. Better to commit to one time of play and let your players come to you. - I explicitly stated to not have a preference between GMing for serious characters and GMing for stupid characters. Maybe both camps refuse to spend any time invested in an activity that may involve a member of the other camp. (Understandably so. Some people only get fun from one style and not the other.) Again, I wouldn't want to play with a GM that says my character is stupid. It infers that I am as well. &nbsp; - Maybe I haven't yet earned my stripes, because I still haven't chosen an avatar and my stats show me to be a roll20 n00b. This is not my experience here. I find that a GMs lack of actual experience (in GMing or in the Virtual Tabletop medium) can cause people to avoid games. You can be new here and still know how to GM or how to use the basic VTT environment. Some people don't care about either of those things. Many I fact. - Maybe I have poorly explained what my game is, and a better explanation would have helped. I agree with you here. A better explanation of the game world, your story goals and the characters you are looking to would be helpful. You might provide a link to an example character so people know what to do. DnD is easy to recruit for because people know what it looks like. Well, hope some, all or any of that was useful. Good luck and happy gaming!

Thanks for all your support. I'll be playing this game at a physical table Thursday (if all goes to plan) and DawnforgedCast (the YouTube channel) will soon be answering a question I have about managing expectations, such that players have all the information they will need going in on if the game is to their taste or not. Once both of these things are resolved, I will try again. One more question, what is a popular time? I'm quite open and flexible with times, and I don't want to create a game during the one time of the week that the website is almost empty. (I've been asking that one a bit, and haven't got any good responses. Is there a graph somewhere that shows roll20's peak game times?)

There is not any graph that shows what is best time but the devs have posted on the roll20 twitter that this saturday had around 11,000 members online at the same time.

Thanks Pat, but which time was that? I live in Australia, and I'm assuming most people here are American, but are they morning players, afternoon players or evening players?

The twitter post was made about 9 hrs ago from the time this post was made. There was no additional information given. You best chance to get the info you are wanting is to just email the devs at <a href="mailto:Team@roll20.net" rel="nofollow">Team@roll20.net</a> and ask.

There is a graph of Rolls Per Hour on the Roll20 Quantum Roll status report page, <a href="https://app.roll20.net/home/quantum" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/home/quantum</a> As a practical matter I've found that more people play in the evening than in the afternoon or morning (my game is in the afternoons though). However the website is populated by people from around the world, so afternoon and evening can match up to almost any time of day. There are 1000's of players on any day and time, many of them already in games, some looking for new games. The peak announcements seem to almost always fall on weekends (Friday and Saturday).

Jon C. said: Then I grew out of combat. Waiting five minutes to find out what happens 6 seconds later is not my idea of fun, no matter how creative and descriptive those five minutes were. So,... this is probably one of the big things you've made a mistake in. There's a lot of systems that do combat way more interesting than D&D and it's derivatives. There are many ways to include conflict, but man vs man is the primary method, and a lot of people are going to feel like there is no threat, or danger in your game if you call out 'combat' as something boring, and unengaging. You may wish to look around a bit more, and play fewer d20 derivatives to find a method of 'combat' that you actually enjoy. The other big ones are: the failure to commit to a time. A lot of players prefer consistency. I have yet to play with someone who has had the expectation that sessions will be entirely based on which day and time is best of the players. Instead they choose players who can regularly make the time and day instead. And: no preference towards serious or comedic characters. These two are fairly incompatible. Players who expect a somewhat serious experience will find the fourth wall breaking, and lightness probably un-immersive for them. There's a pretty solid line of belief that players know when levity is necessary, and break the tension when appropriate. If there is no tension, some people don't feel engaged. The general consensus is that if your game is not on the first page (and your game isn't niche), you're not going to get any bites. If your game is niche (Exalted, WoD, etc), then players will probably look for a couple of pages to find games for these systems. For homebrew? Good luck. There's no means of verifying the system won't break down quickly, that some player won't find the game-breaking loophole, or that the game will even function. Even published games have this same problem (Wild Talents, Mutants & Masterminds). I, admittedly, have not looked at the thread, but it stands to reason that Fallout-esque games have a problem of Fallout being a massively overhyped, and overrated game. And that a lot of people are seeing that, and going 'Welp. Pass.' Try describing it as something that people either a: aren't familiar with, or b: doesn't suffer from wildly varied opinions on quality (I'd pass over any game that describes being a Fallout-style Post-Apoc game. But I'd be interested in a game that claims it's inspired by S.T.A.L.K.E.R.) Things that aren't true: Use of maps makes or breaks the game! No one uses Theatre of the Mind! False. I currently run Exalted - I have a single map and a splash page. That single map is a white page with circles and range bands on it. The players have no problems with combat in a game that runs entirely on the player's ability to narrate engaging fight scenes. I have seen one reply in 24 hours! Does this mean my game isn't well-liked!? &nbsp;No. There's a ton of reasons why. But 24 hours in the LFG system is normal. Threads also tend to see 10~20 hour wait period before anyone replies in the thread. Often times, people do so via PM. Unless your game is the current hotness. D&D (4e and 5e, currently) tend to see a lot of people scrambling to play these games. Pathfinder has begun to see a decline lately, and even once popular games are seeing a slower intake of player interest as more people become interested in the hobby. I'm new, and no one will think I'm capable of running a game! &nbsp;Not even in the slightest. I ran my first game on Roll20 with ~5 hours played. That game had a significant number of applications. I actually get -fewer- applications now, at something like 2k hours than I did at 5. Nothing stops you from sitting and idling in Roll20, and just spamming games to get the account badges. It's a system that can be gamed, and no one takes that system seriously. Anyone who does... probably isn't someone you want to play with anyway? Hopefully that helps with why, perhaps, your LFP isn't as successful as you thought it would be.

Animus said: &nbsp;just spamming games to get the account badges. Spamming is against the rules and will get a person banned fast. Now that I said the moderator bit, on with a personal comment. I'm a narrative styled GM so I don't use maps or not much as some GMs but what I found out in my posts is that you can not use a generic post. You have to get players attention, you have to sale your game, you have to sale yourself basically. Get people excited to play your game and everything else will come together. You inquire about the best time, there really is no one best time since roll20 is worldwide so just pick a day and time that works for you and stick with it. I just recruited for a game that is going to be ran on friday at 1130pm (UTC-6) and have 4 players within 24hrs. I post a blurb that gave the players a specific taste of what the game is going to be about and then I also went into the games setting menu and made it viewable to the public while supplying a link to the details page. I use the game forums to host various rules for character generation and additional information for the game so those players get to learn more about my game. Good luck and don't give up.

Pat: Thanks, I may do that, but not just yet. Gold: Good graph, but did not cover all 24 hours Animus: You may be correct about combat, but I'm not yet convinced. As a security officer, I've seen and even participated in real combat, and even the real thing has never been interesting to me. As for Hollywood combat, Jackie Chan is good, but almost everything else bores me. Also, Jackie Chan is good for three reasons that just can't easily be replicated in an RPG setting: -The question is not "will he succeed?" but "what method of success will he use for this situation?" As an audience member, I'm always wondering what he'll do next, and his ideas are always more ingenious than mine. -The pacing is perfect. He performs intricate moves in a tiny fraction of the time it takes to describe it. -He never performs the same action twice (overstatement, but you get the point). Every action he takes is unique to his circumstances and has consequences unique to the action he took. Even if you know a system that solves all these problems (and I am well aware that many come close) I still don't find combat to be interesting. They only have two possible outcomes, and no matter how you rule it, failing a combat isn't exciting. It's just annoying or depressing. Not at all similar to the combat situations I face professionally. Rather than traps, puzzles and combat, I prefer negotiations, logistical problems and bizarre circumstances. If I want my players in situations that only have one enjoyable outcome, I'll just write them a story and read it to them. That way they will get the thrill of success in every encounter, and I can tweak the number of times they fail without having to figure out encounter balance. When I run a game, I have a map, but no idea where the party will go or what they will do when they get there. Every situation I put them in, I make sure it's one where even I don't know what I'd do, and the best course of action is probably something I didn't even think about doing. So combat isn't really compatible with my style of GMing. Also, regarding "theatre of the mind" and maps, I'm not saying that the two styles are incompatible. I'm saying that whenever I use the term "theatre of the mind" I mean that that's where the map is. If I run the exact same game, but put the map on the table, I stop calling it "theatre of the mind" because now only some of the theatre is in the mind. The rest is on the map. This is not a statement about how games can or should be played, it's just that that's what I mean whenever I use the expression.&nbsp;

Just realised a possible self contradiction: Yes, I have a map which negates the idea of theatre of the mind but: 1. The players never see the map 2. Each hex is 25km from corner to opposite corner.

I think we have drifted off the topic that is roll20 specific. If no one has anything to add that will bring this thread back to something that is allowed, we will have to mark this thread done and off topic.

Pat S. said: Animus said: &nbsp;just spamming games to get the account badges. Spamming is against the rules and will get a person banned fast. Could you quote the bit that says I can't just make 5 campaigns and do nothing with them? Because I'm not talking about spamming LFG or the forums. I wasn't aware I'm not allowed to do what I like with campaigns that aren't public.

Since this thread has gone off the OPs request I will go ahead and close it. Good luck in your next LFG post!