AoP campaign

I am looking for a DM who can run a campaign with a Apostle of Peace. This will need to be either a solo campaign or a group willing to play with an alternate playstyle. Basic rules for the Vow of Peace are I am not allowed to fight(or I must make every attempt not to fight) ANY creature intelligent enough that I can make a diplomacy attempt with. This means I can freely attack constructs and simple undead.

What I am looking for is a Dungeon Master familiar with Dungeon's and Dragons v3.5. Also familiar with The Book of Exalted Deeds and is counterpart The Book of Vile Darkness. I want to play a campaign not necessarily based around my Apostle of Peace(unless we do a Solo Campaign) but if we do play with a group, they need to understand and be ok with my Apostle of Peace's role(the diplomat who tries everyone oppurtunity to stop violence--- even possible converting Choatic evil characters into allies(Mindflayers^^)) I can stay fight unintelligent undead and constructs, this is something to keep in mind.

3.5 ain't my bag, but the request is rather refreshing. You'll likely be even 'more' popular than a paladin wielding a bag of assassins smacking around a circle of necromancers.

Regular 3rd edition works as well. And.. I am having trouble detecting what you mean by that lmao. So confused! My request is still open! Any DM's interested? Run me solo OR others can join in but they need to realize this will not be your normal playstyle of game!

The assassins and necros would likely be a tad 'emotional' being banged about by Sir Shiny Lawful Stupid.

I gather you don't care for Paladins. Therefore, the refreshing comment, was not sincere.

I am sincere though, I am looking for any DM and/or group that is willing to allow an Apostle of Peace(monk taking vow of poverty and vow of peace and prestige classes into AoP)

bump

OH, Hey there. The forum didn't flag me that you'd posted. Paladins are one of my top picks. I meant what I said. Paladins, Lawful Good. Assassins. Evil. Necros. Undead. Paladin = 'buzzkill' for players of same, typically. "Sir Shiny..." is intended to be reflective of the common attitude, esp from the evil, of a paladin. Rules wise though, pallys are gimped, and so pretty easily rode over roughshod. As an aside, and friendly, sincerely sincere note, you may wish to edit/integrate your multiple posts into one. Some here get a bit 'surly' when you 'dupe' posts like that. I would save you hours of assumption and annoyance. Peace and 'luck'

hmm ok i will work on fixing it.

Good call. The downside of Virtual, as opposed to FTF, is that I wasn't physically present for the blessed event.

^^

I am interested in joining as a player.

You may want to sidebar kethro. RM started this post with the intent of finding a specific game allowing for a very specific character type. I have a proto-game up if you'd like. It may be better for you if you have a clear idea of what you wish to do. Feel free to send a PM on the subject. If you are new here, 'welcome aboard'.

I think it's not understood what I was asking for. An Apostle of Peace still starts at level 1 like anyone else. In fact he doesn't start as an Apostle of Peace. An AoP is a Prestige class. He starts as either a Level 1 monk or Cleric. He starts by taking vow of Poverty.. meaning he can never use magic items. the only thing he has at that level is decent strong Diplomacy. He can fit into any campaign, he just starts.. changing things up after a few levels.

I get you RM. I think that Kethro wasn't tracking LFP v LFG. no worries. The overall irony is a bit funny.

lol so I am building an AoP for a game, but its DND next.. and.. it doesnt quite translate. It is kind of funny actually. Did you know that at level 6 when I take VoP I can have over a 35 AC... lol.. naked. Also around a 30 or higher diplomacy.. just kind of funny is all.

Add: You have a post specifically related to diplomacy/communication. Said post is rife with miscommunication and confusion regarding same. It would have been even funnier if everyone was flaming everyone else. Then (re: 'assassins and necros') You will have an apostle of peace, pissing off other players because you are stopping fights, which means no xp, or loot, which means that they will want you dead so that they can engage in pillage and plunder unimpeded. Apostle of Pieces. I think that you'll need all of the AC that you can get, including the non-naked variety. Highly advise 'spot' 'listen', 'tumble', MR and saves as well. Irony and hilarity. AoP being followed by an angry mob everywhere they go, till they die. Very strange but this does echo real life examples pretty well. If intentional, it is very clever. Should have called it 'The Martyr' prestige class.

Correction on one thing. I by no means stop anyone from getting exp. Loot .. maybe.. I do have the vow of poverty so my character could care less about loot. You get exp for resolving fights.. not for killing enemies. We fight 10 Mindflayers.. 10 Mindflayers decide to be my allies.. I get exp for resolving a scenario of 10 mindflayers. the exp is the same as if I were to have killed them. Loot.. I am unsure how that would work. Maybe my party members can get even better loot by keeping them alive. Instead of just looting the corpses.. the enemy decide to show us where the even better loot is and share it with us for the cause.

Well, if xp works as swimmingly as you say, the more munchkiny types will want to milk all of the non-violent xp they can, then go back when they can kill them and get that xp as well, and then loot the bodies, possibly after cooperating against a better enemy with more, better loot, and xp, possibly by getting their non-violent xp by negotiating from a position of strength. However, speaking of mind-flayers, I take it the prospective martyr has an alignment requirement?

You do realize that diplomacy only lets you go a max of two steps...and quote "is generally ineffective against creatures that intend to harm you or your allies", that is from the Pathfinder skill description, does the AoP class actually modify the way the skill works, or just makes you obscenely good at diplomacy checks? If there is not some sort of ability or super natural thing going on, i find it hard to believe that you are going to stop 1 mindlfayer, let alone 10. Piles of brain goo...very peaceful brain goo...:) I am not trying to be difficult, i think the concept is there, but is it there for RP challenge or crunch challenge?

Me? 3.X + "ain't my thing" generally. I'm pretty sure that you are addressing RM, but I didn't want to seem rude if you weren't.

You do realize that diplomacy only lets you go a max of two steps...and quote "is generally ineffective against creatures that intend to harm you or your allies", that is from the Pathfinder skill description, does the AoP class actually modify the way the skill works, or just makes you obscenely good at diplomacy checks? If there is not some sort of ability or super natural thing going on, i find it hard to believe that you are going to stop 1 mindlfayer, let alone 10. Piles of brain goo...very peaceful brain goo...:) I am not trying to be difficult, i think the concept is there, but is it there for RP challenge or crunch challenge? Well first of all, AoP does not work in Pathfinder. 1: They completely and Utterly gimped Vow of Poverty. 2: A billion other reasons to include your 'two step' rule you mentioned. In 3.5 with a 50 or higher diplomacy roll you can actual go from completely hostile to completely friendly. A roll that high also makes the target zealously loyal to you. There also rules that allow for Alignment changes. These are the things an Apostle of Peace does. An apostle of peace has no tolerance for demons.. they banish them upon site. Undead and constructs they destroy without mercy. AoP's need be Good. and Since I build them based on monks.. thats Lawful Good.

That actually sounds pretty cool I must say. The one inconsistency that I see is when clerical/"Holy/Unholy" is batched in with "magic" as in items as well as metaphysically. Balance wise it may make sense, but I'm not sure they should really be in the same category. Granted, I'm pretty much out of the 3.0 loop.

Oh and its Role play challenge. It's to test the players AND the DM. Most people are use to.. uh oh, big baddies .. roll initiative and kill! How do you respond when.. Hey baddies.. you don't really want to fight us, in fact, you should join our cause. Apostle of Peace's build armies meant to maintain a peace. There armies generally include very powerful Evil Creatures who 'have seen the light'

That actually sounds pretty cool I must say. The one inconsistency that I see is when clerical/"Holy/Unholy" is batched in with "magic" as in items as well as metaphysically. Balance wise it may make sense, but I'm not sure they should really be in the same category. Granted, I'm pretty much out of the 3.0 loop. I don't understand what you mean by this. I don't use any sort of magic item.. ever. Vow of Poverty states I can not maintain magic items or things of value.

A lot of this depends upon the theology of the game. What I'm saying is this. Example: A Holy Avenger (see 'theology' pref) is powerful because it is 'Holy', not because it is 'magical'. Are miracles, magical? Is 'magical' synonymous w/'miraculous'? Anyway, hope that clarifies, and this isn't really the place or function of the site, IMO.

How is it not the function of this site. I am a player seeking a D&D 3.5 campaign to join. If you mean the discussion we are having.. we are not allowed to have random tangents on this site?

And you still didn't clarify.... I don't understand what you said in the context of what we are discussing. An AoP is not theological. They merely use the power of words to get there way. "Pen is mightier than the sword"

In other words, the AoP isn't a theocentric class, correct? While the point still stands re: "magic v. miracle", if the previous is correct, then I suppose the distinction isn't that pertinent.

It's really.. complicated.. to put them into a category. They definitely have Cleric tendencies... Wisdom to cast spells, spontaneous healing, turn undead, divine spells. The two core classes that tend to synergize best are Cleric and Monk. However, as a monk who prestiges into AoP.. I don't consider my character very religous. He doesnt attend temples, doesn't pay tithe(his money goes to like orphanages and stuff like that). There is no specific Deity I must follow. I could even worship myself if the DM allowed it lol. So while they have theological tendencies I would not label them theocentric. There power comes from the vows the take, they are very monastery like. They perfect themselves and believe in the power of words above all else. Words are there weapon, not divine interference.

I think pathfinder is flexible enough to be able to have a prestige class that still has the challenges and obstacles of the AoP from 3.5. But, it is not going to accomplish its goals by busting the system with Alignment changing dice rolls. I think it should have an aura system, where your holy peace extends about you, and as you level up, you aura gets larger/ different abilities. If it is a prestige class based on a monk who take a Vow of peace thematically it is interesting to me. Make him better at fighting the few things he can fight. Maybe he has the ability to banish evil outsiders...there is plenty of ideas. I still am unsure as to how, or if i would personally fit the concept into my game, but its a viable idea. It just needs to be balanced, and rely on something other than broken crunch. Also, you don't want to make a game into your experiment. I think in order to have other people take the idea seriously, it needs its own thematic and mechanic to go on aka aura's or something

Outside the way diplomacy works as a whole in D&D 3.5 there really isn't much broken about this. Vow of Poverty some would argue is broken... but that's a huge debate. level 1-6, or maybe 1-10. The power of Vow of Poverty is kind of noticeable, but after level 10, there starts to become a huge gap between those with Magic items and those without(vow of poverty). The power of vow of poverty also depends on the magic level of the game. If your a stingy DM, then Vow of Poverty becomes even more powerful. The one and only ability from Vow of Poverty thats sorta hard to replicate with magic items is the Attribute Bonuses they get. AoP is not based on monk, it is based on Vow of Peace. It's based off a set of feats that any class can take. I just prefer to do it with Monk. Vow of Peace gives them a 20 ft aura that when monsters get in that bubble, they make DC to resist having Calm Emotions put on them. Also if non magical weapons strike them, the weapon needs to make a Save or it shatters. The alignment change thing, I am actually unsure of, I can't find the source to back up that statement I made. I wouldn't mind modifying AoP a little to change some things. I would love to have a bigger, stronger(higher DC) aura of Calm Emotions

Thank you for reminding me of why, with rare exception, 3.X annoys me. Even in the basic game, you play a fighter, does it do what the description "Best all around fighter" say that it does? No. It doesn't, not after the munchkins nibble and gnaw at the bindings for a bit. Sheesh. All you dudes. Sincere thanks though, really. I was considering playing it as a last resort. Saved me time. I don't recall the last time I heard of anyone playing... a fighter.

The topic is not to remind us why we don't like crunch. Its not just DnD...it is relevant to any game with a system. There always exists the potential to break down a mechanic or process to exploit the boundaries of the original idea/character/etc. Thematically, i understand the idea of the AoP. But, it is not alone. There are a bunch of wonky themed prestige classed, some of which are can be exploited to manipulate a portion of the power curve, mainly rewriting its own in comparison. It is the same thing as a power combo in CCG's. The AoP is a perfectly viable idea...I am coming from a point of role playing. The crunch that goes behind it, just needs to be thought out better. AoP is exactly what i was designed to be, a Prestige Class for a celestial themed splat book, designed as a resource, just like the Book of Vile Darkness. A lot of the presentation involved justifying Crunch with Story. The Story needs to come first, and be the origin of you perspective, in order to avoid labels, and other terms that other people reading may find offensive. Oath of Poverty, Oath of Peace...sounds like good story stuff. I know the 3.5 crunch. My suggestions are not for 3.5, it was for pathfinder conversion. Play up on the theme of peace. A trained martial artist who doesn't fight, and uses inner peace to promote peace and non violence...to me sounds super awesome Monk story goodness. Monks still often are part of the clergy or church structure, or it could make clerics more monk like as part of the goodies of the not yet created Apostle of Peace Pathfinder Prestige Class. And the Oaths are fine as well...that is a good hook. Make it a life choice, rather than a career choice. Those are easy enough to bring over or up to pathfinder...In a medium or high magic world, as pointed out, may make that more the drawback when your party is armed to the teeth with magic at level 10. Still, I just don't run 3.5. I will play it if i am comfortable with the other players not being crunched to the max. I will run pathfinder cause its smoother, and seems to be efficient when paired with people that know the system well. AoP could fit into any game, just needs to repainted and brought in line with the boundaries of Pathfinder.

But not every game is intentionally designed to exploit same as a marketing scheme. Anyways though, we can game, or play ranty ping pong. When we do more of the latter, than the former, that is pretty sad. On that note....

Ever game by its very existence is a marketing scheme. My goal is to communicate to OP, what i think he could do to avoid your labels.

...if you say so, again, rather game or write than make an unpaid career out of it. Peace out. Time to yank the bookmark.

I wouldn't mind trying to play Vow of Peace in Pathfinder, there are just a few things to keep in mind. He needs to have ways to neutralize situations without violence. Aura of Calm emotions and Pacifying touch are two key things that do this. The issue I actually have is they do not have high enough DC's. I actually wouldnt mind modifying my bonuses, losing on some, for ways to improve those DC's on those 2 abiliites. 10+level+wis bonus is not high enough.. with a 18 wisdom, and level 20, thats 34, which may sound high, but at level 20 i am sure enemies are probably rolling +34 minimum.

+34 on a will save? wizards have a +12 will save @ lvl 20, where is the +24 coming from?maybe +10-15 extra, but not 24. The DC's of those saves is right in line with every other spellcaster, even soft casters. All magic uses the formula. Maybe +1 DC bonus twice throughout the progression.

10+level+wis modifier.