Bug with the non-custom D10 sheets (World of Darkness, exalted ect.)

Hi, Several of my players (that is to say ALL of them except for myself) are having problems with the non-custom D10 sheets. The problems appear across all of the D10 sheets we have tried so far, and it's to the point where using the sheets is almost more of a liability to the game than not having a sheet at all. The sheets delete information that is added to it, including both text and dots. Any text box will continuously delete itself, and dot ratings will reset to no dots. My players are all using firefox and windows 7, with one exception whom I believe is using Chrome and Windows 10. Not all of them experience the problem to the same degree - one guy I play with is based out of Arizona, and he only experiences the problem with text boxes being reset. He claims to have discovered a work-around which involves "clicking on something different to make it save the information", but this is a bit difficult to reproduce. We are two people who access the game from the same address and internet connection in the USA, and we do not have any problems. My other players are from South Africa, Sweden and Denmark, and are all suffering from the problems to an extent where we are slowly giving up on the sheets. One of my players is quite the script-monkey, and has made several custom sheets for our group. He understands the code-language of the sheets quite well, and claims he cannot see what is wrong with the sheet itself, so he says he thinks the issue is most likely something on the Roll20 servers, he said specifically that it might be a program that was designed to enhance sheet functions, but that these sheets are not updated to work with yet. Very rough quote. I cannot provide more information at the time.

I could understand if it was a problem across the Storyteller system sheets just with the dots, since I believe all of them except Exalted 3e (which I authored the current version of) are based on the code from the Exalted 2e sheet (which I also authored). But you're talking about it happening to things like text fields, which does not make much sense. Zunami said: one guy I play with is based out of Arizona, and he only experiences the problem with text boxes being reset. He claims to have discovered a work-around which involves "clicking on something different to make it save the information", but this is a bit difficult to reproduce. Text and number inputs (and textareas) only save their data to an attribute after they lose focus, so if for example you entered some text and then immediately closed the sheet, I could certainly see losing that information. Do you/your players lose any information on sheets other than ones from the Storyteller system family?

Do you/your players lose any information on sheets other than ones from the Storyteller system family? We do not to my knowledge. We do not play any systems other than this - with the exception of a custom D20 system, which my friend (who is a player in my troupe) designed a custom sheet for. This sheet doesn't have this problem at all and always saves the information. Also I can now confirm that it is happening to me as well. If you write something in the sheets, it just goes away again the next time you open it up, instead of saving information like it is supposed to. The attribute dots seem to always stay, but merits, skills, powers ect. seems to always vanish. It seems the only way to save the information is going through a neurotic process of clicking to the bio or maybe another part of the sheet to somehow have it save the information. I can't even confirm that I've found a solution to make it save. I haven't fully even understood when the deletion of data occurs. There's basically 7 of us experiencing the same thing. Admittedly one of our players is having it worse than the rest - my player who uses windows 7 and firefox from South Africa. I have no idea if this is important information at all - but she continuously has the sheet remove ALL of what she fills in. I've only had it happen to me once or twice. My other players experience it in varying amounts with some seemingly having found a strange method to avoid it happening, and others just probably normally doing it exactly that way (closing the sheet in some special way or what ever). I honestly am not an expert on this matter.

I just made a copy of your game and tested this out on several characters, and everything seems to be working fine. If you or your players ever experience this again, please have them go through the steps in the Solving Technical Issues wiki: Could you please carefully work through the first three steps of our guide to Solving Technical Issues ? Step 1: Make sure to use the right browser Please check if these issues persist when using both Chrome and Firefox. Step 2: Ensure that there are no extensions/addons interfering with Roll20 Please disable all add-ons/extensions and anti-virus programs. Step 3: Clear your cache If none of the above succeeds, please thoroughly work through Step 4 . ( Don't forget the complete Console Log !) Thank you!

Well, I haven't had any reports that the problems have stopped Phil, so how about I just ask them all to go through these steps and and I'll see how many of them figure out how to do step 4? I'll be receiving the logs as notepad files, and while I can certainly copy paste 5 people's worth of console logs here, it's going to get messy - I don't suppose you have some sort of upload system?

Zunami, you could use a service such as&nbsp;<a href="http://pastebin.com/" rel="nofollow">http://pastebin.com/</a>

Brian said: Zunami, you could use a service such as&nbsp; <a href="http://pastebin.com/" rel="nofollow">http://pastebin.com/</a> Thanks, I'll look into this once I start getting the reports back. If I get them - You know how it is, motivating my players to do much more than make their character sheets can be a bit of a hassle. This will likely take a while. Two of my players have also just gone on temporary hiatus for 2 weeks time, so I will probably not be getting back to you on this until then.

One of my players is working on a log now - and so am I, but I just wanted to notify you that I've found a way to recreate at least part of the problem. 1) Open sheet. 2) click one of the speciality text boxes (as in, click so you can now write in it) 3) write a distinctive recognizable sentence (theoretically write anything - but this is so it's easier to confirm the problem) - DO NOT CLICK ANYTHING ELSE AFTER WRITING. 4) close the sheet. 5) open sheet 6) Text is now gone. NOTE: If during step 3, you interact with the sheet in another way after writing, the text seems to save. This is not the entire problem though - we still have problems with dots not saving that I currently haven't figured out how to recreate.

Here is my personal log, created right after deliberately provoking the issue to happen multiple times in a row. <a href="http://pastebin.com/bCFQvBgR" rel="nofollow">http://pastebin.com/bCFQvBgR</a>

This report is from the player Tristan P. <a href="http://pastebin.com/yzneLGQu" rel="nofollow">http://pastebin.com/yzneLGQu</a>

Zunami said: 3) write a distinctive recognizable sentence (theoretically write anything - but this is so it's easier to confirm the problem) - DO NOT CLICK ANYTHING ELSE AFTER WRITING. This is always going to cause a problem. Content entered into a field is not saved until the cursor moves out of that field. It's a good habit to get into tabbing or clicking out of an edited field to select another field to be sure that your content has been saved.

Rabulias said: Zunami said: 3) write a distinctive recognizable sentence (theoretically write anything - but this is so it's easier to confirm the problem) - DO NOT CLICK ANYTHING ELSE AFTER WRITING. This is always going to cause a problem. Content entered into a field is not saved until the cursor moves out of that field. It's a good habit to get into tabbing or clicking out of an edited field to select another field to be sure that your content has been saved. This is not a problem with out custom sheets

It's probably related, specifically, to the type of field you're entering the text into or to the way the information is being handled by the sheet via the sheetworkers. I would say, the best solution is to get in the habit of clicking out of the text box before closing the window. This is a good habit to have on the internet in general, because there is a lot of JavaScript out there that is set to respond to text changes, but the browser doesn't fire the "text changed" event until you click off of the element.

Right - if you're so readily going to dismiss this issue, then I suppose I'll tell my players to treat our RP sessions as if it they're playing candy-crush. The issue with dots also not being saved still persists - and that issue definitely cannot be fixed simply by clicking around. I had a character practically fill out her entire sheet multiple times just to have it all (or most of it) erased. That very issue should be represented in Tristan P's log, but not my own.

I will take another look at the textbox not saving, but I'm 90% sure that is an issue with how browsers handle text inputs and is not something that I can do anything to change. Which of your games is this happening in? The dots not saving is definitely something I can look into, I missed that piece. Is it happening in the same game as the previous issue? If not, which one?

Any game I am active in or GMing that uses a d10 Story teller sheet. That's quite a few: Fabletown Vampire mage 2E: Eureka Exalted 3: Sui Generis. A Skald's Tale I understand that the issue may not be fixable, and I believe you when you say so - I just find this very strange because we don't have the same problems with other campaigns that do not use the d10 story teller sheets. We haven't found out how to reproduce the problem where the sheet doesn't save the dots we add, which makes it even more frustrating trying to report the issue - it seems to happen at random. At first I didn't even believe it, but it started affecting ALL of my players. The first game we experienced the issue in was Fabletown, but I seem to recall having the issue in A Skald's Tale and Sui Generis too. The problem persisted through Mage 2e and Vampire. We got so fed up with it, we changed systems used a custom d20 sheet that my friend designed. We eventually changed back though because it just wasn't what we wanted for that game. Unfortunately the two players who most frequently experienced these problems (with the rest of us experiencing them too, just not nearly as often) going on hiatus for several weeks due to exams, I can't say that I will have any logs any time soon. At any rate, I've instructed my players that they need to be clicking around the screen when they fill things out, and I suppose it's just something we will have to get used to until my player who makes sheets for me eventually flips a table and doctors up a custom sheet without the errors like he did when we first started using D10.

I just did some more testing with the Specialities not saving, and was still not able to reproduce the issue. (which doesn't mean it's not happening, it just means it's something more complicated) Just to make sure, on the Werewolf: The Forsaken sheet, on the "Second" tab half-way down the page on the right under "Specialities". I one of those text fields and then click the X to close the window. After I do this I see: Really updating character sheet values compiled.js:29660 Setting up repeating sections took until 17ms compiled.js:29720 Finding list of dirty attributes took until 17ms compiled.js:29729 Querytest took until 17ms compiled.js:29743 Attribute cache compliation took until 19ms compiled.js:29922 Set values (including auto-calcuating variables) took until 23ms compiled.js:29934 Took 24ms Show up in the console log, showing that it's saving the new data. When I reopen the sheet, all of the new text is there. When you do this, do you see these extra messages show up in the log? You can know for sure if you clear the log right before you enter the text and close the sheet. You can do this by clicking the "circle with a line through it" at the top right corner of the log area. If you are not seeing these messages, and the text isn't saving, what messages are you seeing? Can you paste just that part of the log here, so I can be sure of what part of the process I'm looking at.&nbsp; As for the "dots" issue. There are a. lot. of. dots. on these sheets. Is there a specific area of the sheet dot that you notice is failing to save. I clicked around a bunch and it seemed to respond and save as expected, but I may have missed something.

Phil B. said: I just did some more testing with the Specialities not saving, and was still not able to reproduce the issue. (which doesn't mean it's not happening, it just means it's something more complicated) Just to make sure, on the Werewolf: The Forsaken sheet, on the "Second" tab half-way down the page on the right under "Specialities". I one of those text fields and then click the X to close the window. After I do this I see: Really updating character sheet values compiled.js:29660 Setting up repeating sections took until 17ms compiled.js:29720 Finding list of dirty attributes took until 17ms compiled.js:29729 Querytest took until 17ms compiled.js:29743 Attribute cache compliation took until 19ms compiled.js:29922 Set values (including auto-calcuating variables) took until 23ms compiled.js:29934 Took 24ms Show up in the console log, showing that it's saving the new data. When I reopen the sheet, all of the new text is there. When you do this, do you see these extra messages show up in the log? You can know for sure if you clear the log right before you enter the text and close the sheet. You can do this by clicking the "circle with a line through it" at the top right corner of the log area. If you are not seeing these messages, and the text isn't saving, what messages are you seeing? Can you paste just that part of the log here, so I can be sure of what part of the process I'm looking at.&nbsp; As for the "dots" issue. There are a. lot. of. dots. on these sheets. Is there a specific area of the sheet dot that you notice is failing to save. I clicked around a bunch and it seemed to respond and save as expected, but I may have missed something. This is getting a little technical for late night errands. I'll revisit the log stuff tomorrow (I hope) and post my answer. As for the dots - The intention with the dot system is that it's supposed to be simple on a paper sheet - unfortunately it doesn't really seem to have the same effect when digitalized. So, my personal experience is that the attribute dots do not seem to fail to save. Skill dots however are very prone to vanishing acts. The skill dots are the ones that there are multiple rows of, listed as Mental, Social and Physical below the attributes (which there are only 9 of). The merits are also very frequently lost, but I think the reason why I assume the merits may not be as bad in this area as the skills, is because the other problems we've had with merits has somehow overshadowed the entire issue. So in short: Skills and merits are the primary sinners - where as I don't think we've experienced a loss of dots with attributes. I can't say anything in regards to willpower, Health, integrity (morality under different names), Power Stats, powers and juice stats. I simply haven't made any observations.

I haven't gotten around to what you asked me about yet, but I have logs from two more players - both claim to have experienced the issue with dots disappearing from their sheet (not the text issue). Jonas S: <a href="http://pastebin.com/vhR6m13K" rel="nofollow">http://pastebin.com/vhR6m13K</a> Daniel H: <a href="http://pastebin.com/Q3RfaNkH" rel="nofollow">http://pastebin.com/Q3RfaNkH</a> We're experiencing some strange issues with Daniel's log - namely actual misspellings in his console log pulled straight from his browser, so we're currently trying to find out why there would be typos in his firefox browser.

Bumping this - This is STILL a problem - Now we're also experiencing dots disappearing after they have been filed and stored for a while - as in, the dots stay there for multiple sessions and then just randomly disappear. The problem is getting particularly problematic for us - Our game is getting impossible to play. I'm sending in ONE more log, and then we're honestly going to have to find a new solution, because this is getting ridiculous.

This log is from Amber, She is using windows 10 64 bit, firefox latest version, adblock is her only extension, standard OS anti virus. <a href="http://pastebin.com/WUqTUQN1" rel="nofollow">http://pastebin.com/WUqTUQN1</a>

Phil B. said: I just did some more testing with the Specialities not saving, and was still not able to reproduce the issue. (which doesn't mean it's not happening, it just means it's something more complicated) Just to make sure, on the Werewolf: The Forsaken sheet, on the "Second" tab half-way down the page on the right under "Specialities". I one of those text fields and then click the X to close the window. After I do this I see: Really updating character sheet values compiled.js:29660 Setting up repeating sections took until 17ms compiled.js:29720 Finding list of dirty attributes took until 17ms compiled.js:29729 Querytest took until 17ms compiled.js:29743 Attribute cache compliation took until 19ms compiled.js:29922 Set values (including auto-calcuating variables) took until 23ms compiled.js:29934 Took 24ms Show up in the console log, showing that it's saving the new data. When I reopen the sheet, all of the new text is there. When you do this, do you see these extra messages show up in the log? You can know for sure if you clear the log right before you enter the text and close the sheet. You can do this by clicking the "circle with a line through it" at the top right corner of the log area. If you are not seeing these messages, and the text isn't saving, what messages are you seeing? Can you paste just that part of the log here, so I can be sure of what part of the process I'm looking at.&nbsp; As for the "dots" issue. There are a. lot. of. dots. on these sheets. Is there a specific area of the sheet dot that you notice is failing to save. I clicked around a bunch and it seemed to respond and save as expected, but I may have missed something. My players have noticed that it appears you are using the wrong place on the sheet to record specialties. See the picture above to see where we normally record specialties. The second page is just a convenience page to record modified information for different forms in the game.&nbsp; My players wouldn't mind inviting you to sit through a session with us or at least speak with us directly on our team speak server to get a better understanding of the issue. We're very eager to see this resolved. Right now, if you can't figure out what the problem is, I suggest you declare the sheets bugged beyond fixing and remove them from roll20 for now, to be honest, because they are obviously not working as intended.

In addition, one of my players ran through the tests you asked for - he said that when running the tests on the particular fields you were using, he got the same result as you, but when running the tests on the fields we're ACTUALLY having problems with, then he got this: Also, I can't seem to find this post in the bug forum anymore. It appears as if it has disappeared from the bug forum, so I will make a new post with a link to this thread if I don't see a response to this in about 24 hours or so, as I'll assume it was removed from the forum for some reason. Edit: Over 24 hours have passed and I have not gotten a reply - So I made a new post linking to this one, because it appears that this post has been sunk due to some sort of date-stamp bug. I appears that this thread got stuck with the date signature of 15th July for quite a while, and while it now appears to have updated it's date stamp correctly again, it remains stuck on page 4 of the bug boards. I've opened a new thread to call attention to the sinking issue: <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/3889976/bug-repo" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/3889976/bug-repo</a>... Please direct any inquiries about the time stamp, sinking issue and what not to THAT thread, and NOT here. And this is the thread in which I link to this one to call attention to the fact that the bug remains unresolved: <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/3887762/data-dis" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/3887762/data-dis</a>... Because this particular forum thread appears bugged, I ask that continued discussion on this bug takes place in the new thread, and I request that this thread be closed once a forum moderator has assessed the reason why the thread was sunk. Here is a picture showing the strange placement of the thread on the boards, where it remains stuck among the 15th July posts: The post appears on the 3rd or 4th page of the board as of this date (8/28/2016). Again, I request that any posts regarding the sinking issue or placement issue of this thread are directed at the respective thread I have opened that pertains to that particular issue, and NOT here.

In addition, one of my players ran through the tests you asked for - he said that when running the tests on the particular fields you were using, he got the same result as you, but when running the tests on the fields we're ACTUALLY having problems with, then he got this: "Correction this was on the 'Repeating Sections for merits. Not all merits had this problem only the created ones'"