Help! 5e OGL or Shaped ???

So I'm about to start my first game as DM on Roll20. I bought the  official LMoP module to ease me and my crew into it. Before I get started learning the ins and outs, I'm struggling deciding between using the default 5e OGL sheet or using the 5e Shaped. I've tried stumbling through to compare for myself, and also searching for documentation, but I'm can't seem to get an "apples-to-apples" comparison in my head. So, my basic questions/concerns are: Performance - How stable is the Shaped sheet? In my limited test it seems that it struggles converting the pre-gen module content. Specifically when pulling in spells on the bestiary sheets. Macros & Token Actions - This is huge. I've grown accustomed to making token action macros for all NPCs and bestiary in the ad-hoc game I'm playing in (thanks to Taking20's YouTube channel).  These include Actions, Traits, Reactions, Saves, & Stat Blocks. I've read that the Shaped sheet allows for automation of this via the companion API. Is there a similar script to do this with the OGL? API - Is there a great disparity in the availability of utility scripts for one sheet or the other? It seems as though a lot of great tools are available that will work with both but I might be mistaken.  TL:DR  - Looking for experienced Roll20 folks to help me compare/contrast the OGL & Shaped sheet. Does the Shaped sheet play nice with the official pre-gen WotC content? Is the difference to subjective to matter?

Personally I prefer the OGL because it is more streamlined but I do have to admit that the shaped is more powerful. Macro and token action wise, the shaped sheet does have a better setup for accessing a wide variety of abilities through chat menus that are built into the sheet; you can do the same thing for the OGL sheet, you just have to build it yourself. For scripts, the only scripts that the sheet matters for are the companion scripts.

I personally prefer the Shaped Sheet due to functionality and ease of use. To answer your questions from my perspective, for the Shaped sheet: The operation of the sheet itself is generally stable and fast. (However, for another sense of stability: the sheet is updated quite often, and sometimes that leads to things breaking - although they are usually fixed quickly). But conversion from pre-gen content will take a while when first opening the sheet, it is set up for the OGL content after all. Spells are specifically not imported from bestiary sheets, you'll have to do them yourself. Which is fast with the companion script, but it's something you have to do. Indeed, this is a one-click process with the Shaped Companion script. They only differ in the companion scripts. However, the companion script for the Shaped sheet is a lot more powerful, with the right setup, it can import monsters & spells for you really quickly, either from a JSON database or from a statblock. And some other neat automation tricks. (Although this might not matter too much for running purchased modules, if you're stricly sticking to what's in the module). Disclaimer: I've never used any of the official modules, so I cannot speak from experience as to how well they function with the Shaped sheet.

Here's another thread that you might find insightful.

Quite simply, the shaped sheet is more powerful for the advanced use cases. The OGL offers a more streamline, simple, pen and paper feel. The OGL sheet does have a companion script, though it simply automates consumed ammo, and spells. As for token actions, they aren't inherently attached to a token, though the OGL sheet supports drag and drop straight into the VTT to create a sheet, and attached token. The NPCs all follow a similar scheme as far as actions are concerned. %{selected|repeating_npcaction_$0_npc_action} will perform the first action on the sheet %{selected|repeating_npcaction_$1_npc_action} will perform the second, etc. It all boils down to this: If you want a more streamlined experience, go for the OGL. If you want a more powerful sheet with more advanced options, the Shaped is the way to go.

Andy B. said: So, my basic questions/concerns are: Performance - How stable is the Shaped sheet? In my limited test it seems that it struggles converting the pre-gen module content. Specifically when pulling in spells on the bestiary sheets. Macros & Token Actions - This is huge. I've grown accustomed to making token action macros for all NPCs and bestiary in the ad-hoc game I'm playing in (thanks to Taking20's YouTube channel). &nbsp;These include Actions, Traits, Reactions, Saves, & Stat Blocks. I've read that the Shaped sheet allows for automation of this via the companion API. Is there a similar script to do this with the OGL? API - Is there a great disparity in the availability of utility scripts for one sheet or the other? It seems as though a lot of great tools are available that will work with both but I might be mistaken.&nbsp; TL:DR &nbsp;- Looking for experienced Roll20 folks to help me compare/contrast the OGL & Shaped sheet. Does the Shaped sheet play nice with the official pre-gen WotC content? Is the difference to subjective to matter? 1. Performance - Speaking from what I know of the development of the Shaped sheet, Kryx does not have access to any of the pre-gen WotC campaigns so the conversions have been worked on through player feedback, meaning that there may be gaps in what converts over correctly. Regarding the spells specifically, Shaped uses more attributes than OGL so it is easier to re-copy over the spells using the compendium or the Shaped companion script where necessary. Compendium & Volo monsters should work fine but the spells in applicable monsters are only stored in name, so you need to fill in the spell data regardless. 2. Macros & Token Actions - The companion script for Shaped does allow for a set of Token Actions to be generated when you either create a monster using the !shaped-monster command, or if you already have a monster/character made, you can apply a set of pre-defined token actions or use commands to add specific ones. As for OGL, beeke01 (not sure if that's his/her roll20 username) did some work on a TokenActions script for it, but there hasn't been any updates to it in almost a year so I'm not sure if it still works. Link is&nbsp; <a href="https://github.com/beeke01" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/beeke01</a> (The Shaped version of their script was rolled into the Shaped companion script). 3. API - Just going off what I use in my Shaped game. I use the Shaped Compendium script (to create monsters, token actions and also use the API functions of the sheet), Aura (which creates an aura around monsters that changes colour to indicate health levels as my PCs attack them) and TokenMod (to easily give my PCs/NPCs torches/lights/vision via a macro and easily change injury statuses, e.g. Charmed/Crippled/etc). I'm also planning to use It's A Trap and group-init in the near future. As far as I am aware, you can use all of the scripts (bar the Shaped script obviously) on OGL as well. Avatar of Woah made a Google Doc with some macros that combine a lot of usage of these scripts (for Shaped, but I'm sure at least some could be modified for OGL) here -&nbsp; <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qldVi5zAdXY2l6" rel="nofollow">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qldVi5zAdXY2l6</a>... Hope this helps and feel free to ask any questions :)

techiecarer said: beeke01 (not sure if that's his/her roll20 username) did some work on a TokenActions script for it, but there hasn't been any updates to it in almost a year so I'm not sure if it still works. That's Kevin on Roll20. Here's a link to the TokenAction creator thread.

I would strongly recommend shaped sheet over OGL. Performance - Tested the most recent version of shaped sheet on Storm King's Thunder and it converted all monster and NPC data without any problems. You can import monsters from Volo's with drag and drop from compendium and it will fill in all the data correctly. Macros & Token Actions - Shaped sheet allows automatic addition of all monster/NPC/Player traits and actions via API. API - Shaped sheet's companion script is by far the most complete all in one API that is associated with a character sheet. It allows importing of new data from statblocks, allows you to maintain a database of monsters/spells and import your own custom stuff from there, setting default parameters for non player tokens when they are dragged on the field, HP rolling, automatic ammo usage etc.. You will not find all of these consolidated on a single one-click-use script anywhere else. At the risk of looking like an asshole I want to point out that the OGL sheet is not needed anymore with the existence of the shaped sheet. I do appreciate the work that Roll20 devs have put into it, however OGL is just a sheet made by developers for the players whereas the shaped sheet is made by the players for the players. Kryx (Shaped sheet's author) is active in taking in requests and fixes by the community and shapes she sheet alongside the community and updates rollout every couple of weeks. Yes, shaped sheet might look a bit intimidating to use but you have entire documentations to help you with all the cool stuff like clickable buttons and macros inside rolls. Use shaped sheet, don't look at any other sheet.

Franky H. said: The OGL offers a more streamline, simple, pen and paper feel. Offering a good user experience that mirrors the pen an paper experience is one of the main goals of the Shaped sheet. There are definitely differences between the two sheets, but I'd quite disagree on this point. Regarding streamlined: The shaped sheet's customization options are designed in a way that they are not obtrusive. The goal is to allow for customization, but don't let it get in the way of normal use. Many customization options do not show unless you use a setting on the settings tab or go out of your way to use it. In version 9.0.0 I'm streamlining the sheet even more with this in mind. Franky H. said: though the OGL sheet supports drag and drop straight into the VTT to create a sheet, and attached token. The Shaped sheet does as well. Performance - How stable is the Shaped sheet? In my limited test it seems that it struggles converting the pre-gen module content. Specifically when pulling in spells on the bestiary sheets. I convert spells quite well from what I have tested and seen. If there are errors I'd appreciate an issue being opened on my&nbsp; issue tracker . I watch that and try to implement fixes quickly (currently working on 9.0.0 so focusing many hours into that) Macros & Token Actions - This is huge. I've grown accustomed to making token action macros for all NPCs and bestiary in the ad-hoc game I'm playing in (thanks to Taking20's YouTube channel). These include Actions, Traits, Reactions, Saves, & Stat Blocks. I've read that the Shaped sheet allows for automation of this via the companion API. Is there a similar script to do this with the OGL? The Shaped sheet is designed so that you won't need to create any macros - they're all already on the sheet! See the settings page for Statblock, traits, actions, etc. It's quite helpful to have them there by default and they regenerate by default. You can create your own as easily as OGL, but the design goal of the sheet is that you shouldn't need to. The Shaped sheet has a companion script. The OGL has one too, but it is no where near as feature complete as Lucian has created for the shaped sheet. See&nbsp; Shaped Companion Script for details. Brother Sharp said: At the risk of looking like an asshole I want to point out that the OGL sheet is not needed anymore with the existence of the shaped sheet. The Shaped sheet has been around much longer than the OGL sheet. It has gone through several updates along the way, but I'm quite proud that I've been working on this project for several years now.

I think Kryx is biased. &nbsp;;-P

***[Kryx]( <a href="https://app.roll20.net/users/277007" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/users/277007</a>) said:*** I convert spells quite well from what I have tested and seen. If there are errors I'd appreciate an issue being opened on my issue tracker . I watch that and try to implement fixes quickly (currently working on 9.0.0 so focusing many hours into that) Thanks for your reply! Hearing directly from the author is about the best sign of how well supported the sheet is I can think of! As to spells: I was referring to the fact that they seem to create 2 versions of each spell when converted. One outputs the entire spellcard and the other just the basics. After posting and playing around a bit I realize this is probably by design and is quite useful so my original comment was quite premature.

Vince said: I think Kryx is biased. &nbsp;;-P Definitely, which is why I tried to stay out of the opinion and more inform the OP on facts. And not the "alternative" kind. ;) I probably did slip on that goal with my replies to Franky :P

Andy B. said: Thanks for your reply! Hearing directly from the author is about the best sign of how well supported the sheet is I can think of! As to spells: I was referring to the fact that they seem to create 2 versions of each spell when converted. One outputs the entire spellcard and the other just the basics. After posting and playing around a bit I realize this is probably by design and is quite useful so my original comment was quite premature. That sounds like a bug. It sounds like I'm converting spells (the ones that turn out fully formed) while also parsing the spellcasting trait to spells. When I parse the spellcasting trait to spells (just showing the name, which should later be filled in by the user as that's all I have access to) I search through the list of spells to see if it already exists and I don't add it if it does. That case works fine for importing a monster, but it seems like in this case the conversion doesn't happen before the search which is why the empty spell is added. It'd be great if you could open a bug for me as I'm off to bed right now, otherwise I'll do it in the morning.

My group is starting there 1st 5E game this weekend (upgrading from 3.5) and I ended up choosing the OGL sheet. I really liked the Shaped but I went for the OGL because it is Roll20's sheet. Any updates (i.e. new books etc...) with new content should be adapted and compatible to their sheet when it comes out. The shaped may not be until he has time to research it and update his sheet. We will find out as we play if I made the right choice for us.

Mike B. said: My group is starting there 1st 5E game this weekend (upgrading from 3.5) and I ended up choosing the OGL sheet. I really liked the Shaped but I went for the OGL because it is Roll20's sheet. Any updates (i.e. new books etc...) with new content should be adapted and compatible to their sheet when it comes out. The shaped may not be until he has time to research it and update his sheet. We will find out as we play if I made the right choice for us. I'd love to hear your thoughts after the session if you don't mind posting. So far I'm leaning towards the Shaped now that I've been playing around with the API.

Mike B. said: Any updates (i.e. new books etc...) with new content should be adapted and compatible to their sheet when it comes out. The shaped may not be until he has time to research it and update his sheet. Unfortunately Roll20 does not inform me of any updates to 5e and I only learn of them when you do. That said there has only been a delay of 1 week on things like dragging straight to the tabletop. On the flip side I will support UA and other content while the OGL doesn't. (Artificer and UA Ranger coming in 9.0.0 - it will be a quicker turn around in the future).

Brother Sharp said: Performance - Tested the most recent version of shaped sheet on Storm King's Thunder and it converted all monster and NPC data without any problems. You can import monsters from Volo's with drag and drop from compendium and it will fill in all the data correctly. What is your method for creating NPCs from Volo's Compendium content? When I try to simply drag from the Comp., a new sheet is created and converted, however the Token is just a 1-pixel image(?) that bugs out when I try to resize it. Should I be creating the sheet first then drag/drop the Comp. data, followed by a manual token creation?

I do agree you have the better sheet and I like the fact you will support other content. (my group would probably try to kill me if I made them change right now, but we'll see after we use it a bit.) Now I did have one other reason for choosing OGL. They are a group and could always hire a programmer if needed. You are only 1 person. I know better then a lot of people, that shit happens. I really really hope nothing ever does, but if you disappear for awhile, what happens to your sheet. I've been burned before (not here) by choosing a popular alternative instead of the official version. And yes, I will post how we like the sheet but I screwed up the date. Its next weekend we start.&nbsp;

Andy B. said: Brother Sharp said: Performance - Tested the most recent version of shaped sheet on Storm King's Thunder and it converted all monster and NPC data without any problems. You can import monsters from Volo's with drag and drop from compendium and it will fill in all the data correctly. What is your method for creating NPCs from Volo's Compendium content? When I try to simply drag from the Comp., a new sheet is created and converted, however the Token is just a 1-pixel image(?) that bugs out when I try to resize it. Should I be creating the sheet first then drag/drop the Comp. data, followed by a manual token creation? Nice catch, after some testing I found out that tokens that only take a single unit of space seems to be imported with 0 unit of width and height. Tokens that take 2 or more seem to import without that bug. When I did my testing I only happened to pick up large tokens and was not aware of this. I do not know if this is only for the shaped sheet but this can easily be fixed by selecting said tiny pixel, right clicking and setting dimensions. I will report this to the shaped sheet's thread later if Kryx does not see this. Mike B. said: I do agree you have the better sheet and I like the fact you will support other content. (my group would probably try to kill me if I made them change right now, but we'll see after we use it a bit.) Now I did have one other reason for choosing OGL. They are a group and could always hire a programmer if needed. You are only 1 person. I know better then a lot of people, that shit happens. I really really hope nothing ever does, but if you disappear for awhile, what happens to your sheet. I've been burned before (not here) by choosing a popular alternative instead of the official version. And yes, I will post how we like the sheet but I screwed up the date. Its next weekend we start.&nbsp; If Kryx disappears for a while then nothing really happens. The shaped sheet is officially pushed as a usable sheet by everyone everytime it hits a landmark as a stable version. Currently version 7 is the sheet that is usable by the public and people with pro are testing/using version 8 with version 9 being the next stable release. If you are afraid of losing data then stay on the stable version and nothing will happen to you, at all. Please don't compare the work Kryx has done with just a "Roll20 can hire a programmer" because he is the kind of programmer Roll20 would hire. And Kryx receives donations via Patreon. OGL is supported by the handful of people at the Dev team, Shaped sheet is supported by the entire community. The Devs have the distribute their time to maintain an entire site with over 100s of gaming systems and character sheets, Kryx maintains a single sheet that receives feedback every day and any major bugs can be fixed within a week's time. I don't want to force you to use what you do not like but your reasons for not using the shaped sheet are worse than the excuses that children make for not having done their homework.

It wasn't meant as an insult.&nbsp; I really didn't know what would happen.

I really like the functionality of the shaped sheet when I used it as a player. &nbsp;How well does it work with the official 5e modules (LMoP & SKT)? Thanks!

This is probably addressed somewhere else, but is there a way to transfer characters from one sheet to the other - specifically from the OGL sheet to the Shaped?&nbsp; Or does it require re-doing the characters in shaped sheets.&nbsp; I've got a lot of monsters already made in OGL sheets.

Gozer the Gozerian said: This is probably addressed somewhere else, but is there a way to transfer characters from one sheet to the other - specifically from the OGL sheet to the Shaped?&nbsp; Or does it require re-doing the characters in shaped sheets.&nbsp; I've got a lot of monsters already made in OGL sheets. Monsters are converted automatically from OGL to Shaped. PCs need to be redone.

Ok, thanks!

So much great feedback! Thanks folks! So I'm pretty sold on the Shaped sheet at this point. Spent a lot of time tinkering and installed a few scripts last night (Companion, Aura, TokenMod, GroupInit). All seem to be chugging along nicely. However, I'm having an issue with default Token options after fiddling with the "New Character" options from the Companion script. Where is the best place to post seeking advice on this? It started after messing with script options, so API forum I'm guessing? Basically, the Roll HP on Drop option isn't working most of the time, and the default Bar options are being randomly weird. I probably just need tips on the proper Attributes but am stumped at this point.

Andy B. said: I'm having an issue with default Token options after fiddling with the "New Character" options from the Companion script. Where is the best place to post seeking advice on this? 5e Shaped Companion Script Thread 2 Field names can be found in the documentation (click the button on the bottom left of the sheet and you'll get a link in chat).

Excellent, thanks! Also: I haven't yet posted the issue re: Spell dupe on conversion from WotC OGH sheet. Did you already note that this morning?&nbsp;

Yes,&nbsp; #105: Duplicate spells (empty details) created when converting a creature with spellcasting from OGL

Andy B. said: So I'm about to start my first game as DM on Roll20. I bought the &nbsp;official LMoP module to ease me and my crew into it. Before I get started learning the ins and outs, I'm struggling deciding between using the default 5e OGL sheet or using the 5e Shaped. I've tried stumbling through to compare for myself, and also searching for documentation, but I'm can't seem to get an "apples-to-apples" comparison in my head. So, my basic questions/concerns are: Performance - How stable is the Shaped sheet? In my limited test it seems that it struggles converting the pre-gen module content. Specifically when pulling in spells on the bestiary sheets. Macros & Token Actions - This is huge. I've grown accustomed to making token action macros for all NPCs and bestiary in the ad-hoc game I'm playing in (thanks to Taking20's YouTube channel). &nbsp;These include Actions, Traits, Reactions, Saves, & Stat Blocks. I've read that the Shaped sheet allows for automation of this via the companion API. Is there a similar script to do this with the OGL? API - Is there a great disparity in the availability of utility scripts for one sheet or the other? It seems as though a lot of great tools are available that will work with both but I might be mistaken.&nbsp; TL:DR &nbsp;- Looking for experienced Roll20 folks to help me compare/contrast the OGL & Shaped sheet. Does the Shaped sheet play nice with the official pre-gen WotC content? Is the difference to subjective to matter? Hey OP, glad you dig the videos. I was all about OGL, and someone convinced me to jump to the shaped sheets... wow... what a nightmare trying to get the SKT module to convert over. I had constant bugs and tons and tons of sheets that I thought were updated and converted, then come gametime stuff would bug out a bit. TLDR: From scratch campaign, use whatever sheet you like; Official Roll20 module, use the OGL SRD sheets. &lt;---- my opinion Cheers! Cody

Cody, Sorry to hear about your experience. I think there are some likely scenarios to explain your experience (in order of likelihood): 9.0.1 bugs . If you're on 9.0.1 you should definitely upgrade. There were some breaking bugs that occurred in uncommon scenarios. That said 9.0.1 worked without issue beyond the new lair actions on OGL content from the Monster Manual (which is the same format) so perhaps this isn't the issue. 9.0.1 will be replaced by the new release this coming week. Conversions did not complete . Perhaps you closed the sheet before conversions completed? Specific Monster Bugs . Perhaps some specific monsters are bugged - if so and you'd like it investigated my issue tracker is the best place to raise an issue. Some other issue . I would expect #1 or #2 being the most likely scenarios, but I cannot say with any certainty. Whenever you add another step in software (in this case Conversion) there is always something that can go wrong. That said I think your implication that the Shaped sheet does not work with OGL content is quite unfair as many people are using it for just that purpose. If you're still keen to try I'd recommend upgrading to the latest 10.x.x release and trying to convert new monsters and opening issues for those that don't work.

OGL.

I played in one game with the OGL and then I created a game with Shaped. &nbsp;I hate that I have to read so much because I hate programming and learning all that "gobbleydegook" syntax and stuff, BUT, I LOVE that they built a huge documentation sheet for Shaped and I absolutely cannot live without the Shaped Companion. &nbsp;I don't like building things for myself and the Shaped Companion is AWESOME!! &nbsp; A new character needs setup or one not working right? &nbsp;!shaped-update-character (or something like that) &nbsp;DONE Token not working the way I want them? &nbsp;&nbsp;!shaped-apply-defaults &nbsp; &nbsp;DONE All the WORK is done by me selecting options from a chat menu. &nbsp;Super easy. &nbsp;The hardest part is figuring out what all the options mean because I had only played 5E once and never read the books for it. &nbsp;I still don't know what several of them are for but I have all my tokens aura/healthing correctly and can drag and drop bad guys and make their tokens work perfectly with two commands. &nbsp;Plus I probably am not even using half of the coolness that is the sheet cause I STILL haven't figured out where to get spell/monster files to import and that's a cool part as well. Now, I would say, don't be an idiot and install the one click. &nbsp;They tell you several times not to do this and so of course I went ahead and did it (to avoid reinstalling every update). &nbsp;Now 3 days before my game it says there is an issue with this version and that I should use a lower version in order to use Shaped Companion. &nbsp;Which they also said was nearly impossible to downgrade, sooooo, don't do that. Oh, i forgot to mention what I like about OGL. ummmmm, it's nice and clickable. &nbsp;(so is the Shaped Sheet). &nbsp;Basically, the Shaped sheet seems superior in every way I have used it. Also, I purchased the Yawning portal bundle and everything works great with Shaped. I just update the characters using the commands (well I did until it broke) hahaha and it works fine.

I unfortunately joined a one shot using the shaped sheets last week and everyone in the group had nothing but problems with it. Kept having to constantly re-load roll20 to make the sheet editable or clear whatever issue was causing it to lock up and make it uneditable. I haven't had that problem with the OGL sheet. We wasted more than two hours fucking around with the shaped character sheets when we could have been done and playing within a half hour with the OGL sheet.