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Maybe the greatest questions to plague male tabletops fans....

December 18 (11 years ago)

Stmpeng MK.1 tankman

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(this is somewhat more a tongue in cheek kind of thing but still)
has ANYONE here manage to get there girlfriend(or for the women, boyfriends) into tabletop gaming, and if so, how? That if you even got a girl to at least be ok with your hobby of gaming.

I mean, I ain't saying there ISN'T women into table top gaming, but it not really common... not trying to stereotype or anything, but still.

December 18 (11 years ago)

Roll20 Team

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*raises an eyebrow*

Step 1: You get a S.O. of the geeky/gamer/nerdy persuasion.
Step 2: Invite them to play in your games.

The End.

December 18 (11 years ago)

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I've only recently played games that didn't have at least one girl in them.
You definitely want that girl in there, if you can find her.
Otherwise it feels a little bit like trying to bounce a basketball that hasn't been fully inflated.

December 18 (11 years ago)

Edited December 18 (11 years ago)

Forum Champion

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My home (not on Roll20) Pathfinder gaming group has 3 women and 3 men in it. My other two gaming groups are all men though. *shrugs*

For 20 years I have gotten some (but not all) of my girlfriends into D&D or Pathfinder. Most were not what I would consider die-hard gamers though a few stuck with it after we were no longer together (meaning they were not gaming just to spend time with me).

As an aside, none of them ever got interested in tabletop wargaming. Oh well. :)

December 18 (11 years ago)

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You might not be trying to stereotype, but you are doing it anyway.
Shocking revelation: There are women roleplayers on this very site!
If you aren't able to get women into roleplaying, maybe you are dating the wrong women? Get your priorities sorted! ;)

December 18 (11 years ago)

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Hrm. I never got my boyfriends to play! (this is actually not true, just used to illustrate the point that I am a woman and a GM - insanity!)
*runs*

Seriously though, just ask people. You get significant others' to play the same way you get anyone. Ask them, get them interested.

December 18 (11 years ago)

Edited December 18 (11 years ago)

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The last campaign I ran IRL was composed purely of couples (myself and my wife, and two other couples). Not sure which side of the couple convinced which to game though. The couples thing had it's own problems though, as both other couples eventually broke up, leaving the game on indefinite hiatus.

Wife is also part of a girls geek club and organizes oneshots/mini-cons every now and then. I usually GM the second table, and I have to say that GMing for a table of all women is pretty similar as all men, pretty much get the spectrum from power-gamer to pervert. I noticed a bit more of a split in mixed groups, where guys tended one way and gals the other, but maybe that was just me projecting my prejudices.

I guess the bottom line is that there are tons of people of both genders out there the play TTRPGs. If you find a partner that also likes to play, then great. If you find someone you love that doesn't enjoy it, don't try and force it: I can't name a single couple I know that shares 100% of the same hobbies and interests.

December 18 (11 years ago)

Headhunter Jones

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None of my girlfriends have ever known that I play RPGs.

December 18 (11 years ago)

Plus

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Does it count if some of your currently all male group choose to play as young female characters? And are just a bit too convincing at role playing :-D I'm only GM... I don't judge! ;-)>

December 18 (11 years ago)

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I've dragged three separate girlfriends into RP. Only one enjoyed it, the other two I made sure had other things to occupy their minds during my RPG nights :)

As a couple you don't Have to share everything you know.
(and, for the record, where I live roughly 40% of the roleplayers are female, we checked at a regular larp we had a few years back)

December 18 (11 years ago)

Stmpeng MK.1 tankman

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Kristin C. said:
*raises an eyebrow*

Step 1: You get a S.O. of the geeky/gamer/nerdy persuasion.
Step 2: Invite them to play in your games.

The End.

there a reason i said "tongue in cheek"

December 18 (11 years ago)

Edited December 18 (11 years ago)

Stmpeng MK.1 tankman

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G G said:
You might not be trying to stereotype, but you are doing it anyway.
Shocking revelation: There are women roleplayers on this very site!
If you aren't able to get women into roleplaying, maybe you are dating the wrong women? Get your priorities sorted! ;)

sorry, we wargamer sometimes act stereotypical sometimes....as this show , we have a MUCH harder time then most to find any lady friend then any other table top player, some times, we ARE steretypical, other times, we are BEING stereotype( <- that me), and besides, I didn't said there is not female rpgs or table tops fans, i just said there isn't alot of them.

December 18 (11 years ago)

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Let me say, with my tongue in my cheek (to echo your reply to Kristin), that it's kind of funny that you link an article which talks about the casual sexism that drives women away from wargames, after demonstrating the same casual sexism.

December 18 (11 years ago)

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My wife plays in my campaign, but follows a weird behavioral pattern.

Complains about having to play in my silly game, moans about having to get her iPad ready before the session, etc.
Gets totally into character, is funny, acts appropriately psychotic, interacts with everyone, and has a great time during play
Complains about having to make time for the next session as soon as the current session ends
Goto 10

This is her second-ever RPG group, after one she told me about in college where the entire party usually got killed before leaving the tavern (they tried to do the same adventure every session for months) and the mage used his arcane prowess to cast Enlarge on his genitalia. At least I don't have that high a bar to surpass.

December 18 (11 years ago)

Edited December 18 (11 years ago)

Roll20 Team

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I come from a community where the female to male ratio of gamers is pretty close to 50/50. Our entire lot met at a fantasy boffer LARP for the most part.

If you want my opinion, I think a lot of the gender gap has to do with exposure. For a very long time (and perhaps still is), tabletop RPGs were never really the "cool" thing to do. Even less of a game that woman were shown to participate in. Before the convenience of virtual tabletops, the means of getting introduced (as a male or female) to gaming was pretty slim - a high school club, a college dorm, a gaming store, like minded friends, etc. The tricky part about being female and going with some of these options is you get a lot of unwanted attention. You stick out. A lot. And you might get hounded for it. This doesn't really help get yourself acclimated to the community and might scare you off entirely.

I was introduced to tabletoping via the gateway drug of LARPing. Fantasy combat and costumes? Oh snap! Hell yeah! Get me some of that! I love fantasy. I love costumes. Met like-minded people there (and my husband) who roped me into White Wolf's Mind's Eye Theater. Then eventually into tabletop games.

There's also something to be said about rules systems. I love to roleplay, but dear gawd do I find D&D/PF/d20 systems really overwhelming! Back in the day, that's what my husband and friends were trying to get me to play and admittedly it was a struggle for me. If you're trying to acclimate a female friend/girlfriend to tabletop gaming, keep in mind they might be getting lost in the rules. Honestly, scratch that, this isn't gender specific advice. If you're trying to get anyone into gaming, be mindful of the ruleset and if it's causing a stumbling block for enjoyment. Not all rulesets are meant for everyone.

I'd recommend starting out on one shots too. Trying to bring in a newbie blind on a long running campaign might feel off putting because they're going to be reeling by the catch up needed to figure out what's going on. Not to mention they'll be lost when the in-jokes inevitably crop up of past misadventures.

If you were to ask me, just adding women to the table doesn't change the dynamic of it. The table is directed by the individual idiosyncrasies of the players sitting at it and doesn't have anything to do with their gender.

December 18 (11 years ago)

Roll20 Team

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LochaberAxe said:
Does it count if some of your currently all male group choose to play as young female characters? And are just a bit too convincing at role playing :-D I'm only GM... I don't judge! ;-)>

This is a puzzling thing to me. I RP male characters all the time. My spouse RPs female characters. Yet this is considered weird by a lot of people. I actually confused a couple members in my guild on Guild Wars 2 when they realized that I, as a player, was female when my main toon was male. "I thought you were a bro!" They make it sound like gender swapping is so hard to roleplay.

Kristin's guide to RPing a Character of the Opposite Gender

Come up with a character concept, personality, etcetera using your own gender
Swap the character's gender
Play the character as if the gender swap never happened

That's really all there is to it. Gender doesn't mean diddly to Randy or Rosella the Barbarian. They're both equally as likely to swig booze, throw caution to the wind, fly into rages, and beat stuff down into bloody smears on the cobblestones. The only difference between the two is who they hit on at the tavern... maybe. The only time gender really has any forced elements on your character's action is if you're going with a game that's historically accurate and you have to RP a woman who's dealing with all the social oppressions of the previous eras.

December 18 (11 years ago)

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Kristin C. said:

There's also something to be said about rules systems. I love to roleplay, but dear gawd do I find D&D/PF/d20 systems really overwhelming! Back in the day, that's what my husband and friends were trying to get me to play and admittedly it was a struggle for me. If you're trying to acclimate a female friend/girlfriend to tabletop gaming, keep in mind they might be getting lost in the rules. Honestly, scratch that, this isn't gender specific advice. If you're trying to get anyone into gaming, be mindful of the ruleset and if it's causing a stumbling block for enjoyment. Not all rulesets are meant for everyone.

Yep that applies to everyone. I think the key as a GM is just to know all of the systems well enough so you can quickly run a game with a player that knows nothing about them. If a GM can't do this:

Player: I want to shoot that bad guy in the head with my pistol.
GM: (Knows everything pertinent to get the target number) Hit the Roll3d6 button. You want to get under an 11.
Player: (rolls) 9.
GM: Hit the PistolDamage button.

then simplification is probably warranted.

Side note: My wife is playing GURPS which has the third-worst reputation for complexity in the field, didn't read the rulebooks, and has no problems playing. It's all about the approach.

/derail

December 18 (11 years ago)

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My friend's wife played with us for a while. Over the course of three years, I don't think she ever learned the rules. Her husband made the character, and sat next to her to interpret the power cards for her.

This caused a lot of frustration for a while, but eventually I decided that it wasn't worth getting everything right, as long as she was enjoying the game and people weren't frustrated. So, I would handwave a lot of stuff with her, and never bother correcting her. And the game was robust enough to cope with that.

This approach, as observed, can work for anyone who needs to be eased into gaming, or has no head for rules. Focus more on their enjoyment and engagement than on getting everything right. In fact, do that all the time, with everyone.

December 18 (11 years ago)

Headhunter Jones

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Kristin C. said:

Kristin's guide to RPing a Character of the Opposite Gender
Come up with a character concept, personality, etcetera using your own gender
Swap the character's gender
Play the character as if the gender swap never happened

+1. Though a friend of mine would make fun of men whenever she played a male character. "I adjust my codpiece before shaking the Duke's hand..." or "We're lost in this forest but I'll be damned if I'm going to stop and ask for directions." It was hilarious.

December 18 (11 years ago)

Pro

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Kristin C. said:
There's also something to be said about rules systems. I love to roleplay, but dear gawd do I find D&D/PF/d20 systems really overwhelming! Back in the day, that's what my husband and friends were trying to get me to play and admittedly it was a struggle for me. If you're trying to acclimate a female friend/girlfriend to tabletop gaming, keep in mind they might be getting lost in the rules. Honestly, scratch that, this isn't gender specific advice. If you're trying to get anyone into gaming, be mindful of the ruleset and if it's causing a stumbling block for enjoyment. Not all rulesets are meant for everyone.

I do find that in general, female gamers I've met tend to hate crunchy systems. Yeah, it is a stereotype, but in my experience it holds true.

Also from my experience: 1) Having an SO that is open-minded is key, if they're not already a gamer that is. 2) Framing it as a shared/couple experience can go a long way. 3) Be aware of potential complications!

Even a stable relationship may not be as strong as the bonds at your gaming table. My group has outlasted many relationships. My relationships have also tanked many campaigns!

December 18 (11 years ago)

Stmpeng MK.1 tankman

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Dickie said:
Kristin C. said:
There's also something to be said about rules systems. I love to roleplay, but dear gawd do I find D&D/PF/d20 systems really overwhelming! Back in the day, that's what my husband and friends were trying to get me to play and admittedly it was a struggle for me. If you're trying to acclimate a female friend/girlfriend to tabletop gaming, keep in mind they might be getting lost in the rules. Honestly, scratch that, this isn't gender specific advice. If you're trying to get anyone into gaming, be mindful of the ruleset and if it's causing a stumbling block for enjoyment. Not all rulesets are meant for everyone.

I do find that in general, female gamers I've met tend to hate crunchy systems. Yeah, it is a stereotype, but in my experience it holds true.

Also from my experience: 1) Having an SO that is open-minded is key, if they're not already a gamer that is. 2) Framing it as a shared/couple experience can go a long way. 3) Be aware of potential complications!

Even a stable relationship may not be as strong as the bonds at your gaming table. My group has outlasted many relationships. My relationships have also tanked many campaigns!

see, that what i want to hear, how CAN you get girls to join, not arguing where ever or not she WILL join or there is there EVEN ARE girls into table top, I know there are, I'm just trying to get a girl who does not into table-top games to at least be ok with it.

December 18 (11 years ago)

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Stmpeng MK.1 tankman said:
see, that what i want to hear, how CAN you get girls to join, not arguing where ever or not she WILL join or there is there EVEN ARE girls into table top, I know there are, I'm just trying to get a girl who does not into table-top games to at least be ok with it.

Probably the same way you get anyone interested in anything else. For example, beer: there are thousands of different kinds of varying qualities and flavours. You just have to get a person to try a bunch until they find one they like. If they never find one they like, there isn't much you can do about it.

December 18 (11 years ago)

Stmpeng MK.1 tankman

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G G said:
Let me say, with my tongue in my cheek (to echo your reply to Kristin), that it's kind of funny that you link an article which talks about the casual sexism that drives women away from wargames, after demonstrating the same casual sexism.

not really trying to have "sexism"(there a reason i said "or ladies try to get there boyfriends...."), just don't really know HOW to word this.

in my case, i can't even get to point of asking about table top to girls because my school is banning the "girlfriend\boyfriend" thing, to the point that you can't talk to a girl(even if she your friend) unless it about school work, so I'm not really at the point of knowing full well HOW your supposes to talk to a girl on anything much really, much less table top.

and I wasn't EVEN trying to go for that with the tongue in cheek, the term means "somewhat jokingly", or "not really sure". Like your biting your own tongue your having your tongue in your cheek. In fact, WHERE DO YOU GET THE IDEA OF SEX FORM THIS!?, I mean sure....making out, but YOU should known better that I wasn't meaning THAT!! Who REALLY got's the sick mind here?

sorry if I offended someone because of this, wasn't trying to cause this to look like something it wasn't, sorry, you don't have to talk to me again, ever, but at least understand I wasn't trying to offend anyone here. OK?

December 18 (11 years ago)

Stmpeng MK.1 tankman

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Canso said:
Stmpeng MK.1 tankman said:
see, that what i want to hear, how CAN you get girls to join, not arguing where ever or not she WILL join or there is there EVEN ARE girls into table top, I know there are, I'm just trying to get a girl who does not into table-top games to at least be ok with it.

Probably the same way you get anyone interested in anything else. For example, beer: there are thousands of different kinds of varying qualities and flavours. You just have to get a person to try a bunch until they find one they like. If they never find one they like, there isn't much you can do about it.

there you go, that what I was thinking

December 18 (11 years ago)

Pro

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My wife will only play with me if I ask her and it is not her preference so usually I leave it alone.
I only ever had one girlfriend that gamed, funny thing was when we gamed it was mostly females in the group. My current group however only has one female player (but she is a great player).

The only universal I have seen with every female player I have played with is they have all been sticlers for pretty characters. None of them were willing to play an ugly woman. This may be a unique feature of just random chance from the dozen or so I have know, but I would rather think it is a stereotype.

December 19 (11 years ago)

Phnord Prephect

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While it's true that the population is primarily male, believe me, there are real live girls who actually like playing!

December 19 (11 years ago)

Stmpeng MK.1 tankman

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Phnord Prephect said:

While it's true that the population is primarily male, believe me, there are real live girls who actually like playing!

I know, but still, not alot

December 19 (11 years ago)

Roll20 Team

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Stmpeng MK.1 tankman, I think you're confused. Sexism isn't what you think it means.

As for your current predicument. I think the inability to talk to members of the opposite sex in your school is probably going to be a bigger problem than anything else we'd recommend.

December 19 (11 years ago)

Edited December 19 (11 years ago)

Stmpeng MK.1 tankman

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I wasn't trying to do that Kristin
i mean "tongue in cheek" as

Tongue-in-cheek

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look up tongue-in-cheek in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.

No entry for 4-wheeled carriages unless they hold a permit. Given the density of vegetation nearby at 548305 and 547415, a horse and carriage would have real difficulty. Someone's tongue-in-cheek?

Tongue-in-cheek is a phrase used as a figure of speech to imply that a statement or other production is humorously or otherwise not seriously intended, and it should not be taken at face value. The facial expression typically indicates that one is joking or making a mental effort.^[1] In the past, it may also have indicated contempt, but that is no longer common.^[2]
By 1842, the phrase had acquired its contemporary meaning, indicating that a statement was not meant to be taken seriously.^[3]^[4]^[5] Early users of the phrase include Sir Walter Scott in his 1828 The Fair Maid of Perth .

December 19 (11 years ago)

Edited December 19 (11 years ago)

Roll20 Team

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Doesn't really explain your overreaction to G G's comment and taking it waaaayyyy out of context. I figured you didn't know the definition. *shrug*

Edit: I also don't see how your OP was really tongue in cheek either. It's a valid question which has serious answers to it above.

December 19 (11 years ago)

Stmpeng MK.1 tankman

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sorry, I sometimes over-react when I'm getting talk to the wrong way.

December 19 (11 years ago)

Stmpeng MK.1 tankman

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weKristin C. said:

Doesn't really explain your overreaction to G G's comment and taking it waaaayyyy out of context. I figured you didn't know the definition. *shrug*

Edit: I also don't see how your OP was really tongue in cheek either. It's a valid question which has serious answers to it above.

about the later, I don't think it the BIGGEST problem for table top fans, so i was being a bit "jokey" when i said "biggest"

December 19 (11 years ago)

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There are quite a few woman on Roll20...they have a group even :)

But how to get someone to join? Ask? Just like everything else. Want to see this movie? Do you want to play this board game? Etc.

December 19 (11 years ago)

Stmpeng MK.1 tankman

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[GM] Keaggan - GMA Mod said:
There are quite a few woman on Roll20...they have a group even :)

But how to get someone to join? Ask? Just like everything else. Want to see this movie? Do you want to play this board game? Etc.

ok, thank you, I wasn't saying there WEREN'T female table top gamers, but you don't see them to often, part of it for good reason, the other part, not so much.

December 19 (11 years ago)

Edited December 19 (11 years ago)

Roll20 Team

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Stmpeng MK.1 tankman said:

ok, thank you, I wasn't saying there WEREN'T female table top gamers, but you don't see them to often, part of it for good reason, the other part, not so much.

That reason being?

December 19 (11 years ago)

Phnord Prephect

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Seriously? Why is this still an argument? Let it go already...

December 19 (11 years ago)

Stmpeng MK.1 tankman

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well a good reason is is all the "male Only" gaming clubs(and this is for reason why females avoid clubs)
the not so good one, getting stereotype with gun-ho male warhammer-fans
keep in mind, I'm not saying ALL Females hate table top clubs(I know there's women who do like them so don't give me crap on that, I also know there a rise of female table top fans, which is good, in fact, I'm trying to make my home-brew table top game more well like by females(and non wargamer in general),so don't give me crap saying that I'm trying to be sexiest), it just that table tops games(and wargaming having the worst of it) is INFAMOUS for being stereotyped being "anti-women","anti-church","anti social", Ect., which, while not true, is hard to get rid of the bias thought that a lot of people have about table-tops.

December 19 (11 years ago)

Stmpeng MK.1 tankman

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Phnord Prephect said:
Seriously? Why is this still an argument? Let it go already...

sorry about that, trying to explain that I'm not a sexiest.

December 19 (11 years ago)

Roll20 Team

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Tankman, you need to calm down. The only one who's been getting out of line in this thread is you. No one is giving you guff in the thread as I can see it.

You can't craft a game to be liked by a gender. Us female gamers sit on the whole spectrum of what we don't or do like when looking for games. We're identical with our male counterparts in that regard and our gender is just happenstance. Instead of trying to craft a game catering to women, cater to a single person. Figure out what sort of game your female friend/love-interest would like to play and go from there.

December 19 (11 years ago)

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Well folks, I'm now going to stop following this thread and recommend that you all leave this horse alone, then focus on something more pleasant, like Christmas, the recent publication of Blood and Smoke or some loved ones in your life, heck, cinnamon buns would probably fit the bill! (I think we can all agree that cinnamon buns are pretty awesome)
Merry whatever to all of you, and a happy new year! (or month, if your calendar has another opinion when the new year starts)
:-)

December 19 (11 years ago)

Forum Champion

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Before this thread heads much further south I am going to close it. :)

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