AD&D 1st edition character sheet update

Just wanted to report a bug. The new () values after each ability score are handy for our cavalier, but the Charisma and Constitution fields are linked somehow. Whatever i place in the Charisma field changes what was in the Constitution field and vice versa..

Will (GM) said: Whatever i place in the Charisma field changes what was in the Constitution field and vice versa.. Healthy = attractive. But seriously, hopefully the coder/author who most recently updated the sheet will see this message. Was it Vince? I think Vince did some work on this sheet earlier in the year.  I usually use the AD&D 2E (Simple Sheet) but sometimes use the AD&D 1e. I'll load up a game with it and check out the latest version soon.

I haven't done any work on the sheet in long while...  I'll look into it though.

Weird, some one updated it. I am running a 1st ed game and it changed from last week to this one. 

Looks like  Cowtankerous  made some changes/updates (comeliness, backstab, changed the to hit ac system to set amounts, non-weapon prof, hmmm...) to the sheet.  I would send him a PM.

For the record, I was never informed that anyone intended to make changes to the sheet and as far as I can tell, there was never a post made informing users of these changes. Typically it's common courtesy to communicate with a sheet author if and when someone intends to make changes to another's sheet. ;-( I don't claim to be the sole author of this sheet, but I think I have made enough changes to have more than a passing "interest" with it. While personally would not have added non-Ad&d 1e changes such as Comeliness, percentile ability fields (besides STR), changing to THAC0 vs the DMG's To hit AC tables by class(which now breaks the whispered hit tables btw), and adding a non-weapon proficiency section, I could see making these additions as optional (although these changes seem more along the lines of OSR)if the users of the Ad&d 1e sheet requested them. Apologies for my rant. Go slay some orcs...

Vince said: For the record, I was never informed that anyone intended to make changes to the sheet and as far as I can tell, there was never a post made informing users of these changes. Typically it's common courtesy to communicate with a sheet author if and when someone intends to make changes to another's sheet. ;-( I don't claim to be the sole author of this sheet, but I think I have made enough changes to have more than a passing "interest" with it. While personally would not have added non-Ad&d 1e changes such as Comeliness, percentile ability fields (besides STR), changing to THAC0 vs the DMG's To hit AC tables by class(which now breaks the whispered hit tables btw), and adding a non-weapon proficiency section, I could see making these additions as optional (although these changes seem more along the lines of OSR)if the users of the Ad&d 1e sheet requested them. Apologies for my rant. Go slay some orcs... Based on your Changelog, some of those types of stats actually are added in official AD&D 1e later books: Unearthed Arcana (Comeliness; and Cavalier class which uses extra percentile ability scores), and Oriental Adventures (nonweapon profs). Of course a lot of people, probably majority of AD&D community, tends to play with the "Core Books" (PHB, DMG, MM) and don't use the optional extensions, UA and OA. In fact some people colloquially call it edition 1.5e when you add Unearthed Arcana and OA. It would make sense to have these kinds of Roll20 Character Sheet additions to be optional to appear or to simply hide for regular AD&D 1e core-book players; or to have 1e-UA and-or 1e-OA, or just 1e (Simple Sheet), and 1e(UA+OA). Forking it to 2 separate sheets might be the best approach. Vince, I agree what said about someone new changing the sheet code, that a forum post communicating with the community, and a PM connecting with the previous sheet editor, would be courteous and practical. Hopefully a line of communication can be established going forward.

I would have preferred to have the original sheet still available. People need to be aware they are making changes for an entire community and not just their personal campaigns. I would like to see a 1.0 and a 1.5 character sheet available. I wonder if he/she bothered to keep a copy of the original code before he started tinkering?

Will (GM) said: I would have preferred to have the original sheet still available. People need to be aware they are making changes for an entire community and not just their personal campaigns. I would like to see a 1.0 and a 1.5 character sheet available. I wonder if he/she bothered to keep a copy of the original code before he started tinkering? The original code is always still around, since Github keeps track of the changes, so no worries there. In fact, as a Pro user, you could install it right now:  code .

Thanks for the input Gold, Will, Jakob.  We can always step back if needed, but I would prefer to move forward.  I can see the benefit of having the additional features and I would recommend making them optional (hide/show).  Not sure if or how that will work with THAC0/To Hit Tables...  I'm sure I can make the necessary changes if Cowtankerous doesn't make the changes first.  I'll PM to hopefully get the ball rolling.  Cheers

since ideally there is 1 sheet for a system should have all the places to put available options. i figured since they were options they should be there, plus with wishes working in an incremental manner in the DMG there was no where to record those incremental changes, yes Unearthed Arcana, and Dungeoneer Survival guide, and Wilderness survival guide all use the optional proficiencies, they are just that options, as well as Dragonlance setting. comliness is optional sure, it doesn't mean you're forced to use it simply that it is there as an option. like how backstab was entirely omitted, it should have been added. and oops sorry i found a typo i'll fix that. (thanks for the pm Vince) the THAC-10 to THAC10 tables adjust if you just change the THAC0 field to do the math on THAC0. figured it would save time and effort to make it auto do simple math. also they're supplements not different versions of the game it seems petty and pedantic to seperate them

Will (GM) said: Just wanted to report a bug. The new () values after each ability score are handy for our cavalier, but the Charisma and Constitution fields are linked somehow. Whatever i place in the Charisma field changes what was in the Constitution field and vice versa.. Did this get addressed?

Cowtankerous PM'ed me and said he has addressed this issue.&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets/pull/3182" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets/pull/3182</a>

That's great that&nbsp; he did all the changes and I applaud anyone doing work to try and improve things, but he should have had enough pride in his work to at least sign it if he wasn't going to inform anyone about the changes he made. The bottom of the Character Sheet still only lists Adam Ness and&nbsp; Vince as authors. My first reaction would be to go to Vince for any problems with this latest change, since he's the one named on the bottom of the sheet.

Thanks for addressing the bug. I'm just beginning to learn to code. Eventually I may try to design a sheet myself. For now I appreciate all the work it took, from everyone who worked on it.&nbsp;

Cowtankerous said: &nbsp;the THAC-10 to THAC10 tables adjust if you just change the THAC0 field to do the math on THAC0. figured it would save time and effort to make it auto do simple math. The original to hit ac tables in the dmg do not follow a simple THAC0 progression.&nbsp; That was something that was added later (I think 2e...)&nbsp; I took great pains in coming up with the a method where you can manually enter the appropriate number based off of Gygax's crazy hit tables and have them posted as a whisper to the gm for quick reference.&nbsp; With the latest change, everyone is forced to THAC0 and now the whispered table is no longer aligned properly.&nbsp; Which in truth, is probably no longer necessary if we change the 1e sheet to THAC0. ;-(

Honestly the ThAC0 auto-calc isn't really annoying until you get to the 20's that repeat 5 places. That isn't taken into account on the sheet it seems. If&nbsp;you're&nbsp;[ Cowtankerous ] going have the sheet auto-calc the fields at least have them do it correctly. ThAC0 is more of a 2ed invention/conceit. The old 1ed players do actually want the option of having/using the values that are stated in the DMG. This doesn't even allow you to edit them.&nbsp;

Vince said: Cowtankerous said: &nbsp;the THAC-10 to THAC10 tables adjust if you just change the THAC0 field to do the math on THAC0. figured it would save time and effort to make it auto do simple math. The original to hit ac tables in the dmg do not follow a simple THAC0 progression.&nbsp; That was something that was added later (I think 2e...)&nbsp; I took great pains in coming up with the a method where you can manually enter the appropriate number based off of Gygax's crazy hit tables and have them posted as a whisper to the gm for quick reference.&nbsp; With the latest change, everyone is forced to THAC0 and now the whispered table is no longer aligned properly.&nbsp; Which in truth, is probably no longer necessary if we change the 1e sheet to THAC0. ;-( Yes, you did take great pains in doing that, I remember!&nbsp; Please do not change the 1e sheet to THAC0, and leave Vince's work as is.&nbsp; There is a 2e sheet out there, isn't there?

I would add to the complaints about the change in the roll to hit section from 1st ed to THAC0. In It would be nice if there were an option of a separate roll to hit section for each weapon so I could add weapon vs. AC. factors.&nbsp; This has messed my game up a lot. the Repeating 20s is one of the reasons I prefer 1st ed over 2nd ed.&nbsp; Now I am going to have to add a bunch of +'s and -'s to each character and monster, and if this gets fixed, I will have to do it again! Also, I don't like the (&nbsp; ) that now double spaces the attributes section!

@Atalanta stretch the window a little wider and the attributes will all be on the same line again. I found another bug it seems. When trying to use the () fields it some how deleted one of m player's Dexterity score. I agree on the THAC0 issue. Please remove the auto-calculations so I can enter them correctly.

I'll come up with a solution(s) this week.&nbsp; It won't be before today/tomorrow's regular pull request. Real-life obligations...&nbsp; Apologies

It would be nice if the Attack Matrixes could be overwritten with free text, or a selection box to NOT auto-apply the THAC0 table in a standard progression could be added to the sheet. &nbsp;However, thank you for helping to keep 1e rolling. & Vince, Thank You.

PR submitted <a href="https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets</a>... Made changes to the sheet that addressed some of the issues brought up in this thread. brought back the To Hit AC table with manual input fields so you can enter values based off of the tables in the DMG.&nbsp; The auto-calculated THAC0 table that Cowtankerous added also included. Use either one, or both... You can choose to '/w gm' either table from the selector found on each attack. Note : if you opened a character since the last update was made, you will probably have to re-enter the to hit AC table values for that sheet. ;-(&nbsp; adjusted the width of the exceptional ability scores fields so you shouldn't have to re-size the sheet's window to prevent them from wrapping. fixed an error in the non-weapon prof section that caused the name attribute&nbsp;to reset when adding a description. fixed this same issue in the repeating ability section as well. this includes&nbsp;Cowtankerous's fix for exceptional CON/CHA other small fixes

Thanks for all the work.

Bug: repeating attribute values get reset to their default values. Seems to only be a bug when adding new repeating rows.&nbsp; This is not due to either of the last two sheet updates.&nbsp; The code in these areas hasn't changed in over a year, so I think there may have been a recent change on roll20 that's exposed this bug.&nbsp;While I'm still investigating the exact issue(s) and will submit a bug report to roll20 if needed( <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/5790668/repeatin" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/5790668/repeatin</a>... ),&nbsp; &nbsp; Update: I believe I accidently removed type="text" from some of the inputs.&nbsp; Ack... I have corrected my mistake and will make a pull request( <a href="https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets/" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets/</a>... ) for the next update cycle.

Thanks for working on this!

I would also like to add my thanks for working on this and getting it squared away. Cheers.

Tried to help a player make a new character sheet for the first time since the change and both of us are unable to edit the values. We keep inputing things, and they keep getting changed. This is true even if only one of us is online. Can we please go back to the old sheet?&nbsp;

I feel your pain. ;-( There's an&nbsp; update pending (pull request has been submitted, see 3 posts above) that fixes the issue with the attributes getting reset to default values when editing the repeating row.&nbsp; I believe this bug has actually been in the sheet for a while, but only recently noticed. Update: I believe I accidently removed type="text" from some of the inputs. Ack... I have corrected my mistake and will make a pull request( <a href="https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets/" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets/</a>... ) for the next update cycle. Very sorry! One option; as a Pro user, you can change to a "custom sheet" on your game settings and copy/paste the html and css code below.&nbsp; You can switch back to the community sheet after the update. html:&nbsp; <a href="https://raw.githubusercontent.com/vince-roll20/rol" rel="nofollow">https://raw.githubusercontent.com/vince-roll20/rol</a>... css:&nbsp; <a href="https://raw.githubusercontent.com/vince-roll20/rol" rel="nofollow">https://raw.githubusercontent.com/vince-roll20/rol</a>...

Wow. See what happens when your campaign's last game session was Oct 1st?! I opened a couple character sheets tonight because I have a game tomorrow. OMG how I hate changes. So, I can ignore this THACO junk and hopefully my players' three year old characters haven't been hosed? We don't have backup copies... (although if there was a "download copy" option that would certainly make things safer). Thanks to all who've been trying to bug-check this thing. I hope things run smoothly tomorrow. The blasted video/audio chat snafus are already more than we can deal with.

@Eric and others My mistake in accidentally deleting all type="text" from input makes all text attributes on the sheet vulnerable to being overwritten by the sheet's default values. DO NOT OPEN/USE the sheet until the new update goes live (Tues/Wed).&nbsp; I apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.&nbsp; I did not discover the source of the problem until last night.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I've sent a PM to the Devs requesting an update ASAP.&nbsp; Devs normally do not run updates out of the normal cycle (occasional they have ran an "emergency" update during the week, but on a weekend...) As mentioned above, Pro users can temporarily use the latest code as a custom sheet until the update goes live.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;

Vince said: @Eric and others My mistake in accidentally deleting all type="text" from input makes all text attributes on the sheet vulnerable to being overwritten by the sheet's default values. DO NOT OPEN/USE the sheet until the new update goes live (Tues/Wed).&nbsp; I apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.&nbsp; I did not discover the source of the problem until last night.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I've sent a PM to the Devs requesting an update ASAP.&nbsp; Devs normally do not run updates out of the normal cycle (occasional they have ran an "emergency" update during the week, but on a weekend...) As mentioned above, Pro users can temporarily use the latest code as a custom sheet until the update goes live.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; So...has this happened? I have a game tomorrow and I'm afraid to let my players open their sheets. I want to say that it really sucks that one person can go in and screw up character sheets for everyone just because they want to play with alternate UA rules.

The update has gone through, so it should be safe to open your 1e sheets again ( The main server has been updated but the Dev servers do not appear to been updated.&nbsp; I'll let the Dev's know ). FYI: the update that changed the sheet to THAC0 may have overwritten older older sheet's To Hit table values if they were opened before I submitted an update(last week) that brought back the original To Hit tables as well as THAC0, however in doing so I also accidentally deleted the type="text"&nbsp; attribute from the text inputs (major screwup on my part).&nbsp; So, if a sheet was opened between the To Hit update and this week's type="text" fix, the text attributes would have been changed to their default values. If you have opened an existing sheet during this window(last 7 days), double check the sheet's values.&nbsp; You may have to re-enter the stats on those characters.&nbsp; Very sorry.&nbsp; ;-(

@Vince I don't think deleting the type="text" would actually overwrite anyone's attribute values, they would just not use the attributes during the time time that type="text" was missing.

I hope you are correct Jakob.&nbsp;I was definitely seeing some strange behavior with last week's update, yet I can't seem to replicate it with an A|B comparison of last weeks vs this week's code base.&nbsp; I'm happy to settle for this being a false alarm vs overwriting character data...