Trying to find a group of like-minded Players and/or GMs - CAREFUL READING REQUIRED

I've been exploring the online RPG scene for a while now in search of a Pathfinder campaign to be a part of... Rather, a campaign that lives up to the lofty aspirations of early D&D 3.0. At present, I am searching for 4 more of ME. What will follow is a brief profile regarding my thoughts on the game, what a campaign ought to be, what a player ought to be, and what a game master ought to be. I write these things in the hopes that people, possibly even you as you read this now, can self-identify with these ideas and help me to form the gaming group we are all looking for. Pathfinder is not a story-telling system. It is not a story-crafting system. It is a story-BEING system. I do not play it for the same reason I play a video game. I do not play Pathfinder for flashy graphics. I do not play Pathfinder for uber gearz. I do not play Pathfinder for leet damage or OP exploits. I do not play it to make teh noobs gawk in amazement at my glory. I play to take part in an epic, a tragedy, or a comedy that is a reflection of myself and my fellow players. As a player I am attentive to the system and the game table. I help my fellow players and game master to have fun because it helps me to have fun. I do not say I take an action because my character would. I don't have a character. I AM a character. I take an action because I am frightened. I take an action because I am brave. I take an action because the situation calls for a delicate touch. I take an action because it's a step in a story that I am a part of. I'm not simply attacking a giant spider. I'm shuffling backwards and swinging my mace toward the spider in an upside down croquet stroke. I don't take 5 damage points from a throwing knife. I wince in agony as a sting of steel shrieks through my backside, and the dagger in my hindquarters opens a stream of blood onto my expensive silk pants and enchanted boots. As a game master I am the world. I feel the ebb and flow of causality. I man the helm of trust, hatred, humor, love, desperation, and excitement. I am the collective energy of the characters in the world. I am not here to kill them. I am not here to save them. I don't take sides. I am the meaning of their choices, and the more robust those choices are, the more emotional and intellectual power I wield for the benefit of the story that we all represent. If you have gotten this far and agree with these sentiments, and you have a serious interest in a Pathfinder game that grasps the system's true potential for entertainment and immersion, then ask yourself the following questions: 1) Do you have a firm grasp of the system rules, more than enough to play, probably enough to GM? 2) Can you commit to/prioritize a session schedule that we determine week by week, drawing from availability of all group members to try and ensure that nobody misses a game, while striving to ensure that the game puts no strain on anyone's personal life? 3) Can you demonstrate exemplary patience, level-headedness, and reason in the often toxic and virulent environment of the internet? 4) Can you separate your in game identity from your out of game identity, smother your grudges, and bear your annoyances with a smile in the interest of a quality RPG experience? 5) Can you carry on a mutually respectful discourse with 4 other human beings, possibly for years? If you think you are up to this challenge, then you probably shouldn't respond. If you think that none of this is a challenge and this is just how a game ought to run... yay. I hope you reply here soon. I'm aware of how difficult it is to squeeze 4 such individuals out of the internet, and I'm almost certain this post will be met with mockery and insults, or possibly ignored altogether, left to circle the drain of forum eternity and become a 2 year old post that somebody with a sincere interest sees long after I've given up the search. I am prepared for these outcomes, but I am more hopeful for the fruit this effort may bear. Happy gaming, and thank you for reading.

I think you nailed it talking about the story in pathfinder, most of the games i have run on roll20 revolve around going from one combat encounter to the next, some games we never even introduce our characters to each other in game, yet we remain a party. I joined roll20 about three or so months ago, after watching live streams of people playing it. Before then i had never even played a DnD or any tabletop RPG for that matter, it was just never something that i thought i would get into. After playing today's RPG video games though, i always felt like i needed something more, and that something i was able to find playing on roll20. Before i even played my first game (it was a 3.5 DnD game, i think) i did not know that there were so many rules when it came to these kinds of games, i always thought it was just roleplaying to be honest. Now i think i have like 70 or so hours into r20, most of them being pathfinder, and i still have that feeling that cant be filled with some games. It feels like most people, even if they say they are in it for the RP, are just trying to min max stats and always have a list of the best gear etc, i don't know it just seems people dont get into character, rather just act as they would IRL. Anyway, enough of that silly rant! I would love to be able to find a nice group of like minded people to play with for more than just two weeks or so, something where we would build our characters and get emotionally attached to them. I know a good bit of pathfinder at this point, but not enough to GM sadly, though i am learning each time i play more and more to one day GM, because honestly it looks rather fun to GM, but really stressful sometimes. i should be able to make it to pretty much any day set, and to be honest i'm a pretty open minded person. I think i can get along with pretty much anyone, and generally if i have a bad day i dont take it out on gaming friends, theres just no need for that when everyone is trying to have some fun. Anyway thats me, i would love it if this did become a close group of people, so definitely let me know, and maybe add me on skype or something in case it does pan out. Either way, good luck and happy gaming :)

1)Yes and yes, no the the last one. I've only been playing for half a year I think, I doubt I can GM. 2)Yes, I usually arrive half an hour early at least. 3)I can do patience yes. I don't get angry alot. 4)I can but it's kinda hard trying not to kill a really bad guy that you need alive, when you're neutral or lawful good. 5)Oh yea I have no problems with human beings.

Your sentiments are my sentiments. SKip the next few paragraphs if you want to get to the meat of my answer. I've believed RPGing and the creation of the story to be a team effort. Which also highlights my ever burning question, how to make Chaotic Evil and Neutral Evil player characters a viable part of a campaign. I just don't see how they can be. You can do it if you're actually writing a story where their fates are set by you the writer. I can't see it in an on the fly RPG. At best a Raistlin, Lawful Evil, type character can work but s/he's going to have to play the loooooong game because, again, their play should not, in a bad way, negatively affect everybody else's game. (A good alignment link. <a href="http://easydamus.com/alignment.html" rel="nofollow">http://easydamus.com/alignment.html</a> ) I also find that stat generation can be lop-sided and in the wrong hands, make a game not fun for most of the other players, including the DM. As a DM, with groups I am new to and know little of, I start with point buy. This keeps everyone on somewhat level ground, if there are no munchkins (I head them off at the pass with encounters that de-empasize what they are twinking. also lots of role-play with skill checks takes them down a notch.). However if everyone were to play with the story in mind, wanted the extra challenge of being of varied stats, and role-play their stats intelligently, I would do random stat generation. So as far as stat generation camps, I believe in using both for different reasons. I would like to play in your game. I would offer to be a GM but cannot dedicate the extra time necessary for that role. I am a working father of two very little girls and both my wife and I attend our respective schools. Fridays and Saturdays after 6pm arizona (PST/MST) are ideal for me. I Play like I GM, allowing the rules to enhance the story, not hinder it. I wish for my compatriots to excel as well as myself. ALL the stories need to be told. I play my characters logically and (I try to) Intelligently. A CHA of 8 does not mean I am an ass nor does a 18 make me the most beautiful person in the room ( the whole wide room). Consider me for your game.

@Ryan H, after decades of tabletop gaming I have discovered that when players try to play a character that is that player's self, interpreted thru the system rules, they can't. But when a player plays any other character, they end up either playing themselves, or a portion of themselves. This is due to the Psychohistory origin of role-playing games. Most adventuring characters actually are trying to get the best stuff...it is a basic motivation.

I disagree Merle, I have played some amazing characters and none of them are like me...and none of my characters try to get the best stuff...lol. My power hungry ego maniac characters don't rely on items, they see them as a crutch. My characters motivations always come from their back story, I am just as along for the ride in that story as everyone else and I love to see where it goes.

LOL Name Thief!!!! I'll contribute. I as a player would like to get some cool crap, but I take my character's feelings into consideration. Sometimes I don't because the party needs me to do something so I delve into a reason why I would do something against my desires.

your problem here is you want people that think like you. one of the big thing that makes Rpg/ other table top games fun is everyone different, they think differently, and each has there own pros and cons, and each one doing there own thing, which is part of the fun of RPGS. people just don't play it the way the GM/ creator wants, people play the way THEY want. You can have a deep story line, but you just can't "force"players to play it the way YOU want. that why RPGs have all these things, they want the players to play the way they want.

Stmpeng, I don't think he's asking too much. I'm sure with the population of roll20, what he's asking for, many find simpatico. Even if a very small percentage are amiable to the idea i'm sure that is more than enough for a group.

I especially like your concept of being anti "story telling" but rather pro "story being". I've had many experiences where the GM has a story and they want it to happen exactly how they've planned and when they've planned and where they've planned, and they don't want to really let the players into the story in a proper sense. I try very hard to avoid that pitfall myself when I do GM, and from that perspective have learned how challenging it can be and why so many other GMs take the easy route and stick to the script. This thread strikes me as reminiscent of what they say about surveys: you can craft the survey to get the answers you want. I'm not trying to say Brian is trying to get specific answers, but I do think many will answer with inaccurate self evaluations, as so many of us have a tendency to fall to the Dunning Kruger effect . I'd be happy to hear more about what you are planning, and to help out even. Let me know by private message if you want to talk more.

Well first of all, very well said and I couldn't agree more on all accounts. I've been playing RPGs for more years than I care to reveal (tabletop, PC, console), but tabletop games have been and always will be the definitive way to game for me. That being said, I long for the "good ol' days" of basic and 1st edition where the simplest outlines of rules were the backdrop on top of which actual ROLE playing took place. I grow weary of linear PC and console storylines (that way due to the limitations of the platforms of course) with killing and looting the primary drive behind the game, and then have players that step over into the realm of tabletop and expect to see something similar. In a tabletop setting this requires a DM with considerable ability and time on his or her hands. Many have tried and fallen short, myself included, particularly when it comes to gaming over the Internet. There is something about a group of friends sitting around a table face-to-face and gaming that can never be replicated via an online platform. But alas, we don't all have that luxury, which is why we're here in the first place. I've been searching a long time for a group of people I can come to call close friends, those who share a similar view and vision of what it means to role-play using whatever gaming system (which should always take a backseat to RP and the interactive storytelling in my opinion), and I have met a number of such people along the way. But that was years ago and I find myself again yearning for that close-knit group of players with which to share and build memorable stories and gaming sessions. So, I'm in if you're so inclined to continue the discussion you have started here. I see no responses have been posted...I pray that means such discussions have been carried on elsewhere...

I like "story-being" as description. Never heard it put that way but it definitely fits. I do know the rules, but I'm numerically challenged (dyscalculia with a number aversion) so I sometimes mix some stuff up. I think my main issue, asides from probably time zone, would be that I am already in so many games online and offline (some only run every few weeks of course) that combined with my health issues and non-gaming stuff it is unlikely I could guarantee a weekly presence. Otherwise I would love to have you as a GM.

Funny. I've been thinking many the same things. And it got me thinking about the old days. The AD&D 2e days. Or 3.0 even. I used to play with my friends. We played so much the covers fell off our players handbooks. It wasn't about gear and killing. It was about creating awesome stories that we still remember to this day. Ah. Not many around like that I'm afraid. I'm trying. I'm running a game that just started up. Trying to bring in some of those old elements of gameplay - you know - story....we'll see how it goes. One session in.

Hello! Why, yes, all of mentioned sounds like a reasonable code of conduct for a civilized person! I'd love to join in on the communal fun. Also, hi Agnes. Pitty our Shadowrun game never started :(

Seannachie said: In a tabletop setting this requires a DM with considerable ability and time on his or her hands. Many have tried and fallen short, myself included, particularly when it comes to gaming over the Internet. There is something about a group of friends sitting around a table face-to-face and gaming that can never be replicated via an online platform. But alas, we don't all have that luxury, which is why we're here in the first place. I've been searching a long time for a group of people I can come to call close friends, those who share a similar view and vision of what it means to role-play using whatever gaming system (which should always take a backseat to RP and the interactive storytelling in my opinion), and I have met a number of such people along the way. But that was years ago and I find myself again yearning for that close-knit group of players with which to share and build memorable stories and gaming sessions. I feel the DM will find it easier with this group of like minded individuals. But I agree on all other points. When looking at our hobby and our focus on rp, rule sets then become the filter in which we want to see our challenged actions in the world rather than the reason we play. Which is why the edition/rule-set hate makes no sense to me.

That sounds like an awesome group. Although i don't think i quite fit it. Playing the game for the way we acted under the circumstances of the story was always my motive. Loot never came across my mind as a necessity. I would probably act upon what i wanted to rather than what my character wanted to do so I might consider joining but i don't seem to be your perfect guy.

I deeply dislike 4e personally, I just don't get along with it as a lot makes no sense to me and I had the same issue with other systems so sometimes, even when you try (and I did) some rules just get in the way for some people. Longes my time schedule may allow for more time during afternoons again come March, which is why I haven't deleted the game yet.

[for a too long didn't read just skill this essay length paragraph] I love my characters that I create. Even during the creation process I feel them taking shape and almost as if they are real people. If I ever question anything I put on the sheet it really more like I'm trying to feel out if it makes sense. Does this character really have a strength score of 18? Nah (s)he isn't that strong, maybe that strong willed. The one gripe I've ever had about D&D or other groups that I have always had is when you are starting up either the DM throws you into a group together and no one questions it, or there is absolutely no real reason for that group of people to be traveling together, and the characters don't actually know each other or anything and none of the players ever really question it. Like seriously... I've got this amazing character that I love and he or she is thrown in with this group of people and everyone accepts that this person is traveling with them and some groups never even get to ask people their name until like the 3rd session which is like imagine reading a book that is telling the story of what you are doing... It would be the most boring book. "Sally starred at the three people that she had been informed she was to be traveling with by the great voice from the sky. It was an interesting feeling being told she was supposed to travel with these three strangers. Who were they? They seemed to know too, that they were supposed to be traveling with her. Still no one introduced themselves, and no one asked her name. Did they already know? Did they just not care?" and then like three chapters later after they did all this rat killing or what ever "As they sat around the campfire that night the man who seemed like he was taking charge of their rag-tag group of followers sat next to Sally. "Hey," he said in a rather squeaky voice for such a muscular fighter, "I'm Alex, what's your name?" Sally smiled at him as she replied, "Sally." Everyone else seemed to follow their lead and introduce themselves. The scrappy little gnome woman was named Lucy, and the guy who seemed more comfortable in the trees was named John. Sally finally felt like she might actually have a reason to stay with these people now, and not run, like she had been pondering over for the last few days." How boring of a book would that be?! So tl:dr of the above paragraph I kind of agree with you in my own way. I've never played Pathfinder, but I've played a lot of D&D 3.5 and would be more than willing to procure and read source materials on it, I have been wanting to try pathfinder for a while now. If you were willing to accept someone new to pathfinder I would love to play too.

Chrissy, Best place to look at material on Pathfinder for free is d20PFSRD.com. I use that resource a lot even if I have the book. Agnes, I understand disliking a rule-set from a personal point of view, but if asked would you say it's a horrible rule-set that only morons play or would you say it's not suited for you but others may enjoy it? That is the difference between haters and us regular people. The rules just become the lens we choose to look at our challenges through, some of us prefer dark lenses and some rose tinted. (Or choose another lens color analogy that suits.)

Hello Brian S. . (Read below the squiggly line if you are not Brian S) I would love to join as a player. I am willing to GM. In short, I agree with the above. The only possible difference you and I may have - hopefully not though - is that I am fond of the "game" part of RPG. Beyond role-playing, I like challenge, balance, and adherence to rules because I enjoy using mechanics to firmly reflect characters, and rules to logically structure and overcome challenges rather than playing 'collaborative make-believe' (I beg everyone not to take offence or give second though to the language used in this sentence). I am not a rules lawyer, as players from my campaigns can confirm. Here is my schedule, because I figure you needn't consider me if you're not available when I am: Monday - Thursday 6:30pm-midnight EST [4:30-10:00pm GMT -7] Important note: I am travelling from mid-May until mid-July. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hello Everyone Else I'm under the assumption that Brian would like to GM so I hope he doesn't take this as stepping on his toes. I think it would expedite things if everyone posted available schedules. We could also set a time to introduce ourselves to each other. Ideally, if enough people show interest, we might be able to break down into groups of people with same schedules/styles and game-hunt together, even if we are ultimately not chosen for Brian's game. My schedule : Monday - Thursday 6:30pm-midnight EST [4:30-10:00pm GMT -7] Important note : I am travelling from mid-May until mid-July. My preferred class/race : Ahaha, just kidding. Like Brian, I'm interested in good characters, and am not classist or racist.