Dungeon Crawls and their place in the hobby. Your thoughts?

What are some of your thoughts on dungeon crawls? I know for my group it is just about all we can pull off with our schedules and people coming and going from the game. We like it just fine because we are developing our characters for/in that environment with no bigger expectations. Kicking in doors and killing stuff suits us well. In the past I have encountered people who don't like that kind of play and would rather not play at all if they will not have long social encounters with locals etc. How do you feel about this type of gaming?

I personally can't stand dungeon crawls and find them huge wastes of my time. Going to all the trouble of learning the rules and lore of the setting just to use them on a "us ---(kill this)--> them" situation feels unrewarding and pointless. Besides, when I want to kill a lot of things for a reason that doesn't really matter in the end, then I just play videogames.

Dungeon Crawls are just another way to play the game. No better or worse than any other way.

During the first few years of my gaming history, you could just list the creatures my characters killed. I grew tired of the kill and loot games so I started to seek out something different and soon realized that building a social story (just means there is more to the story then just killing things) is where the fun is at for me. Dungeon crawls have their place and are immensely fun when used properly. There are plenty of people that enjoy that style and nothing is wrong with that. The same goes for those that enjoy immersive story games where you spend the entire session talking to the local Baron over dinner about the local goblins problems.

I like it when it fits in the story. Otherwise it's just World of Warcraft.

Metroknight said: Dungeon crawls have their place and are immensely fun when used properly. There are plenty of people that enjoy that style and nothing is wrong with that. The same goes for those that enjoy immersive story games where you spend the entire session talking to the local Baron over dinner about the local goblins problems. Yeah, this is where I'm at as well. Early on, the game was pretty much exclusively about dungeon crawls. But I now prefer a much more holistic approach to the game. Every locale is a viable adventure setting. Last month, the players in my 1st edition AD&D game were deep into a short dungeon crawl that involved rescuing a farm family kidnapped for sacrifice by an obscure cult. Fighting enemies, looting treasure and rescuing innocents. But for the last 3 game sessions they've been participating in a town festival which has involved them in competing with a whole group of NPCs in various contests of skills and abilities, all vying for a very lucrative prize money purse and the prestige of being proclaimed the champion of the tournament. Both the dungeon crawl and the festival games are equally viable as an adventure setting and both have been equally enjoyed by the players involved.

I love dungeon crawls. Truth be told, as I am just getting back into gaming after a 20+ year hiatus, that is all I am really familiar with. I tried playing Pathfinder PbP on Paizo's forums for a while but it seems like those games (PbP) are much more popular with the heavy role playing crowd and, frankly, I got bored sitting around listening to everyone just talk...all the time. I don't have a F2F gaming group any longer so I am trying to find my way in the VTT landscape but in addition to being a Grognard (I really hated Pathfinder's heavy rules and freaky class/races combos), I am kind of a Luddite as well, so I am hesitantly trying to take my first steps into the dreaded world of using a headset/mic and or cam for gaming.

Logan1138 said: I am kind of a Luddite as well, so I am hesitantly trying to take my first steps into the dreaded world of using a headset/mic and or cam for gaming. That was me a year or so ago... Now it's no big deal any longer. Although I still don't use video, I'm strictly voice-chat only. But don't be intimidated by it. Just remember, if you get in with a new group then everyone else is probably just as hesitant/nervous as you are.

They can be fun if done well, though they work best for short campaigns or as a small piece of a larger adventure. They account for a minority of my play but it's good to have one handy to take a break from a longer campaign or if missing players put things on hold. I think WOTC really gave dungeon crawls a bad name because they've generally been very bad at designing them (3e and 4e), with room after room of open door, kill creature that requires 20% of your resources, move on. Good dungeons need a reason to exist, an air of mystery, and its own ecology. Things should be happening that aren't all about the players and not every location should be a monster to kill.

Someone commented that early on, the game was pretty much about dungeon crawls. This might be true if you only ever played D&D, and only played published adventures. I started gaming in 1980, and games even then were about so much more than that. However, I'm not dismissive of dungeon crawls. i see them simply as a special case of exploration: whether you're playing a fantasy game, a sci-fi game, or a 1920s horror game, sooner or later you'll find yourself in a building, cave system, or open area that you need to explore for danger or reward. That's all a dungeon crawl is. Obviously, D&D with its elaborate magic system and wide variety of monsters and traps crammed into the same area leads to convoluted dungeons which are often ridiculously unbelievable, but that's part of the charm of that game. So, i think most games have dungeons in some form (a place to search for some reward, while trying not to be discovered or killed), and there's a place in any game for that kind of thing. It's more fun for me if they are tied into the setting and adventure, and have a reason to exist. I agree with Stan's point above about the very bad design of typical D&D dungeons. But if I'm playing D&D and the GM unleashes that kind of dungeon on me, while it's not my preferred choice, I'm not going to complain. It's a good source of XP!

My campaign (Teluria) tends to use dungeon crawls as a way to advance a story line. There's usually some reason to go into the dungeon, but it has a great deal more to do with some other goal the party is trying to achieve. Since I have the philosophy that leveling and experience are a consequence of a good story, not the sole reason to play, the dungeon crawl in the classic sense, open door, kill monster, take treasure, doesnt really work in my campaign. I tend to design in a pattern of What's that? What was that? I don't know but it's trying to kill us We killed it Why did it try to kill us? since as many encounters end in negotiation as combat, it works better and the players like it better.

Dungeon Delves are whatever you make them out to be. If you want them to be merely several encounters contained within a single location then that is what they will be. However if you want to do more with them you can easily do that. As GG said dungeon delves usually get broken down into two "types". You have the "Monster raid" which is your stereotypical adventure where your sole purpose is to clear the area out (goblin dens, coven of witches, etc.) or the "Indiana Jones" which involves exploring the area for a treasure or for knowledge itself. While many different subtypes exist they essentially trace back to one of those two. As a DM you are not limited to these two types but they are the most common. If the PC's are trying to escape a prison without being detected then that is a different type of dungeon crawl. I mean realistically every adventure is a dungeon crawl, it just might not take place in the confines of a single area. However when the players reach a certain area then x events take place. That is literally a dungeon crawl. So I have to say that dungeon crawls are essential to the game you just have to figure out ways to present them in a non-traditional way. One of the things that I think will help people is how they look at encounters. When I create an encounter, regardless of system or location that it will take place, the first thing I decide upon is the purpose of the encounter. I know that sounds weird to think about but honestly each fight the players get into should have a purpose in helping to drive your story. Once you figure out the purpose of the encounter you will start to notice that even a stereotypical dungeon crawl of clearing out the baddies takes on a new light as you are able to add depth to it. For more information on why you should figure out the reason behind an encounter and some interesting thoughts on building encounters in general check out this link. <a href="http://dungeonsndiatribes.com/2014/02/06/close-encounters-of-the-forth-kind/" rel="nofollow">http://dungeonsndiatribes.com/2014/02/06/close-encounters-of-the-forth-kind/</a>

I like a game with more story and narrative, so I run One Ring. But I do enjoy commando style games, modern military,essentially military dungeon crawl.

I am eternally confused as to why someone would ever ask "Do you think &lt;Insert type of game here&gt; has any place in this hobby?" That's like asking "Why does 4th Edition not let me roleplay?". It's an inane question, it makes no sense. EVERY game type has a "place", because there's someone out there who wants to play it. Even if this entire forum, or the entire gaming community unanimously decided that a certain type of game like dungeon crawls was completely verboten, because all of them wanted nothing but narrative-driven cinematic experiences where they can have moral quandaries and tons of roleplay variety, there would still be someone out there who wants to run a simple dungeon crawl, and there would still be someone ready to play it. Why even ask?

Nothing prevents you from roleplaying in a combat heavy, closed-room environment. The usual reason this question crops up is a misconception that roll-heavy play is lacking in character development and in character interaction. I'd argue it's usually quite the opposite, provided players are fluent enough in the rules not to have to discuss every dice roll OOC and can just look at the result and proceed IC accordingly. Dice only clog things down when you have to discuss every single result.