Inclusivity

Considering roll20's inclusivity standards, can someone from roll20 respond to this person who's claiming race/sex discrimination from the roll20 management? I currently run a small gaming group in Seattle who has been looking to move to a digital platform, before that, however, I would like if someone can respond to these claims as I don't give money to racists/sexists. No matter what race or sex. (I'm also a person of color, in case you were wondering. A good portion of my closest friends and family are white, and I don't accept racism in any of its forms, and refusing to work based on race or sex is racist/sexist no matter how you try and justify it) However, I realize in this day and age things can be misinterpreted so if you've addressed this already then if you could point me to a response that would be great and my group will make the decision to go with you guys or not. I might add, that this sort of behavior towards people any color or sex, harms us. It does not help us. You are hurting us with these types of interactions...we would actually prefer you NOT engage if you're going to engage like this. Thank you for your response and time, I'm sure everyone is quite busy and wanting to make positive changes, if these allegations are true, then I would ask you to please concentrate on the games, the players, and the fun and leave political, racist, and or sexist ideas at the door because we do not need this. <a href="https://invidio.us/watch?v=VK-H0dDeG38" rel="nofollow">https://invidio.us/watch?v=VK-H0dDeG38</a> Inclusivity All Looking For Group postings should be in the spirit of inclusion as opposed to exclusion. This will allow you to best attract the gaming group you wish to interact with instead of attempting to repel those you don't. Two important caveats to this: You may advertise seeking to associate with those whom you share a common background (gender, cultural background, etc.). However, if in this process your post is discriminatory, inflammatory, or spends time on exclusion-- particularly towards those that face systemic oppression-- the post will be removed and be subject to further moderation as necessary. You may not create a post seeking someone of a different background that you do not share. While we appreciate your desire for inclusion, specifically targeting a group in your post becomes an issue of tokenism and is not permitted. This will result in your post being removed and further moderation as necessary.

I mean, they arent going to come out and be like "ah, you caught us" so im not sure what your expectation on a response from them might be.&nbsp; Inclusivity, roll20 has stated before that they dislike it when people exclude people for race or gender.&nbsp; Nolan went on a bit of a tirade, I wanna say, a couple years back about people "not wanting to play with girls" and that he'd ban anyone who was blatantly sexiest about it. Even the section you link describes the principle, to paraphrase, "you can include whomever you have want, you just can't t exclude them". In other words "I'd like to play with guys" is fine, "I don't want to play with the gays" is not ok.&nbsp; The politics surrounding tokenism and the alike, given the current political climate is an entirely seperate sociological debate.&nbsp; I think it's safe to say though that roll20 is very interested in diversity.&nbsp;

Uncle, there's two threads that already discuss this in great detail, including a few people who argue that this accusation is completely baseless. Links below. Jim Davis, who was one of the people present in the discussion with Nolan, also denies it. Jim Davis response . The Five Guys thread spawned from this video . The Civil Discourse thread about Roll20's current problems generally also discusses it . If you want to discuss it further, i'd suggest jumping into one of those threads. The Five Guys thread would seem to be most relevant.

G G said: Uncle, there's two threads that already discuss this in great detail He's not a pro user, he wouldn't see the discussions.

Ah, I didnt realise they were in the Pro forum. Thats a bit silly.

tldr; Roll20 wants to represent race/sex diversity as part of their brand. Current issue only highlights the fact that they strive to be as socially progressive and inclusive as possible

Totally wrong forum for this kind of post, btw. This is supposed to be reserved for macros and similar technical posts

Michael H. said: tldr; Roll20 wants to represent race/sex diversity as part of their brand. Current issue only highlights the fact that they strive to be as socially progressive and inclusive as possible That is pretty one-sided because you are subscribing INTENT when you can't know for certain.&nbsp;&nbsp; This is the basic fact: Nolan told the 5 YOUTUBERS that he didn't want to sponsor them because they are five white guys.&nbsp; That's it.&nbsp; Period... End of story. Everything else Michael has said is simply mind-reading... The best we can do is wait for Nolan to explain his intention and until then, maybe we should stop trying to read his mind and simply look at what he did.

Michael H. said: Totally wrong forum for this kind of post, btw. This is supposed to be reserved for macros and similar technical posts True Michael, but since there is no general forum because of the practice of Roll20, where else would he put it?&nbsp;&nbsp;

To be clear, too. The Scary part is NOT that he's racist toward white guys. He isn't; There's a lot of white guys on the team. It's that he was basically stating a black women would better because it would make him money, and THAT is why he would want them instead of white guys. He doesn't want to be inclusive, he wants to profit off of looking inclusive. That being said, I wouldn't leave yet without hearing more from their side too, to see if they can make sense out of it.

Thats a misreading of the situation. Roll20 is interested in representation and diversity. Five white duds came to them with a request for corporate sponsorship: the onus is on them to prove the cost is worth it to roll20. They had to prove that roll20 spending money on them would grow roll20's market. Roll20 clearly decided that these youtubers didnt bring enough value - roll20 was already known to their audience. Had they been a different market demographic, which roleplaying hasn't reached very well, then there would have been value to roll20 there. It's not a matter of greed, its a sensible business judgement.&nbsp;

He literally said he didn't want to do business with them based on their race and sex.&nbsp; End of story. If he had said, "We don't want to sponsor five black women" and then bragged about sponsoring a white guy there would be zero argument.&nbsp;&nbsp; It's a simple, objective, non-political litmus test. &nbsp; People who discriminate always think they have a good reason for doing so. Jim Davis, who was one of the people present in the discussion with Nolan, also denies it.&nbsp; Jim Davis response . Jim didn't deny it, he said he personally didn't feel it was racist or sexist because they weren't "entitled" to sponsorship - a position he wouldn't dream of holding if Nolan had said no thanks to five black women based on their skin color and gender.

Making marketing choices based on demographics is not racist or sexist, even if those choices involve using race or gender as part of your determination. Race, age, gender, location, audience . . . all are choices in how you market something, among many others. Denying someone to use the service you are advertising based on their race or gender is racist/sexist. Denying someone who is pitching you a marketing opportunity is none of those things, regardless of race. Explaining to the people pitching you the opportunity why your marketing vision doesn't align with what they are pitching you is none of those things. Phrasing of the statement? Bad. In context of trying to explain "Our marketing needs are currently targeting other demographics that I highly suspect this project won't meet, so unless you can show me your analytics match the market our remaining advertising dollars are for we don't have much more to discuss. Even if you can meet that demographic, we are looking to create a more representative atmosphere among the talent on any shows we sponsor, and casting five very similar people doesn't match our vision of how we would like our shows to represent our diverse gaming community. Here, let me give you some examples of marketing initiatives we are currently working with." the shorthand sentence as reported makes sense but is problematic. It does not unpack enough information. Granted, what I've written here assumes intent (as does literally any other interpretation either pro or con to the statement, because we have been given very little context and just a single sentence), but it is based on tons of secondary information of watching the priorities that Roll20 staff (including Nolan) have espoused for years, as well as fitting the narrative as told in the Taking20 video (and personal knowledge of how marketing pitch meetings go). But there is nothing racist or sexist (whether the applicants were of any race or gender) for a refusal on these grounds.

I think the people fighting against racism in advertising would beg to differ that calling it "demographics" suddenly makes it not racist.&nbsp; Intent doesn't matter - no decent person would be OK with a comment of "I'm sorry, we would rather target white people".&nbsp;&nbsp; Again, it's a simple, objective, non-political litmus test - replace the color and gender and *no one* tries to justify this.&nbsp; Making that case that it is OK (or impossible) to be racist and sexist towards white males is an interesting, intellectually and ideologically honest conversation.&nbsp; Saying that the comment wasn't both racist and sexist is just factually incorrect.&nbsp;

Answulf said: I think the people fighting against racism in advertising would beg to differ that calling it "demographics" suddenly makes it not racist.&nbsp; Intent doesn't matter - no decent person would be OK with a comment of "I'm sorry, we would rather target white people". Well, that is all advertising that doesn't explicitly target another demographic. White people in America is the default demographic for (most) advertising.

Good morning, I am so sorry some player had to live such bad situation it shouldn't happen nowadays specially in a role-play based game where your character can be anything / anyone you want. On a side note and out of the forum topic which might help or not, there are points that you might consider before you join a group for example - The type of role-play you want to provide; - The way you are willing to interact with the other players/ST out of character; - If the ST/GM is looking to run a plot-line with subjects that you know you'll or will not enjoy in the end of the campaign; - If the players want a role-play which you are not inclined to do as an ST; - If it is for marketing/advertising goal, or experience train as a role-player or GM or even just an informal meeting of players who want to have fun; - Encourage your GM/ST to create players code of conduct if you not know each other previously; - Encourage players of your team to communicate situations that are not in their role-play sphere; - GM should make previous interview to clarify everyone's doubt about his or her limits and the campaign goals. If you measure carefully these previous points you will leave the racism or any other conclusions behind and you most likely will find a solid group to role-play with.&nbsp;

I don't want to know how and who, one of my player want to fuck in real life.

Darshyne said: I don't want to know how and who, one of my player want to fuck in real life. Hi, You can always be mature about it tell your player that isn't a relevant ooc point to your chronicle until he or she stops and move on, or either you can discuss with other players if they should keep the player in your campaign.

Thank everyone here for being very cordial in this thread and giving us some extra explanation on this topic, I realize it's absolutely a touchy subject, and thank everyone in this thread. We're gonna pass on moving to roll20 however, but we realize there are people here that fall on different sides of the isle on this so with respect to each side on this we certainly don't want to make anyone angry and I'm sure roll20 will get along just fine without my tiny group lol, but this all just smells awfully fishy to us. &nbsp;