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Changing sheets without information loss...

Does this new sheet sandbox feature deal with the issue where, when you have your game set up as one sheet type, and you want to change it, it loses tons of info from the original sheet? Is there ever going to be a way to switch the character sheet in a game without losing info from the original sheet and having to manually re-input it? Or is there some secret to doing this without info loss that I never figured out? Would love to be able to change character sheets in a campaign without everyone having to manually re-input tons of info that doesn't transfer over.
1582115103
GiGs
Pro
Sheet Author
API Scripter
The sheet sandbox doesnt affect that, that's a sheet designer issue. The information is stored in attribute names, and if different sheets use different attribute names (which is likely), the old information wont be there. Sheet designers can plan for this, but its a lot of work, and if they are multiple sheets for the same system, it's even harder. Most of the information isnt lost - it'll be in the attributes & abilities tab (albeit badly disorganised), and if you switch back to the old sheet it should be mostly intact. As a player or GM, the best way to change sheets, is to copy the game, and change the sheet in that game. Then open the original game in another browser, and compare the characters and manually convert what you need to.  If the system is pretty heavy (like D&D), you might be better off creating a new campaign and just manually re-creating your characters in that sheet. Attributes are a big source of campaign lag, and all those missing attributes are still there in the sheet, just not displayed.  Sadly, there's no standardised solution here.
1582125091
Gold
Forum Champion
That is a very clear answer from GiGs. I've been wondering about this too, because, I would like to be able to open 5E monsters (stats, monster manual, storm king's thunder etc) but in a game that already uses a different game's Character Sheet for the players. Via Character Vault or Transmogrify. GiGs said: The sheet sandbox doesnt affect that, that's a sheet designer issue. The information is stored in attribute names, and if different sheets use different attribute names (which is likely), the old information wont be there. Sheet designers can plan for this, but its a lot of work, and if they are multiple sheets for the same system, it's even harder. Most of the information isnt lost - it'll be in the attributes & abilities tab (albeit badly disorganised), and if you switch back to the old sheet it should be mostly intact. As a player or GM, the best way to change sheets, is to copy the game, and change the sheet in that game. Then open the original game in another browser, and compare the characters and manually convert what you need to.  If the system is pretty heavy (like D&D), you might be better off creating a new campaign and just manually re-creating your characters in that sheet. Attributes are a big source of campaign lag, and all those missing attributes are still there in the sheet, just not displayed.  Sadly, there's no standardised solution here.
1582127227

Edited 1582127321
Pat S.
Forum Champion
Sheet Author
Pro subscribers can run custom aheets and they can incorporate sheetworkers into the aheet that can make the old info display in the new sheet. To do this you would have to know the attr names that you want to keep then using the sheetworkers to parse them into the new attr names. A slightly, very slight depending on the sheet complexity, easier way is to rename all the new attr to display the old info. What this means is how much work is it worth to use the old info.
1582250607
Gold
Forum Champion
That's so smart and cool, Pat. Did not know that (either of the methods you told, sheetworkers or renaming attributes). Making "Sheetworkers" sounds like a type of computer language programming that would be out of my capacity. But maybe I can recruit or hire someone to help set it up. Please support this SUGGESTION thread if anyone agrees, I think it would help a lot and in some cases solve this issue: <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/7926666/more-than-1-character-sheet-template" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/7926666/more-than-1-character-sheet-template</a> Pat S. said: Pro subscribers can run custom aheets and they can incorporate sheetworkers into the aheet that can make the old info display in the new sheet. To do this you would have to know the attr names that you want to keep then using the sheetworkers to parse them into the new attr names. A slightly, very slight depending on the sheet complexity, easier way is to rename all the new attr to display the old info. What this means is how much work is it worth to use the old info.
1582252131
Kraynic
Pro
Sheet Author
I don't know.&nbsp; As a sheet author, I see that suggestion as a potential train wreck.&nbsp; If people have the same name on 2 different character sheets, then some macros won't know which one to draw attributes from, and some attributes will be present on one sheet, but not the other. Then you have the problem of certain api scripts needing to be set up for specific attributes of the sheet, so there would need to be a way for the api to utilize a different set of attributes for multiple sheets in one game.&nbsp; I understand people's enthusiasm for it, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to implement in a way that wouldn't cause a lot of headache.&nbsp; It may seem like something simple on the user end, but I'm fairly certain it would have a nasty ripple effect of needing to restructure everything that touches character sheets. I may very well be wrong on that though. That is probably why the only response from a sheet author in that thread is about how to do everything on one sheet.
1582262547

Edited 1582262610
Pat S.
Forum Champion
Sheet Author
It is a potential train wreck but I used the sheetworkers when I rewrote the bfrpg sheet. I had changed the attribute names on the new sheet but did not want people to lose their character info when it went live hence the sheetworkers. It is a lot of work but it was worth it for the transition. I do not suggest the alt option aka renaming the attr as you would have to go through each line of code to make sure the attributes were changed properly. On a simple sheet such as risus or even gaslands, it would fine but anything complex, you are asking for trouble. I only mentioned it as a fyi choice.
1582262776
Kraynic
Pro
Sheet Author
I meant the suggestion in Gold's post to allow multiple sheets to be active in a single game.&nbsp; The use of sheetworkers to upgrade a single sheet is pretty handy (even though I wouldn't be able to set something like that up myself).&nbsp; I have avoided changing any attributes on my sheet (even though I would like to change a couple just due to typos back when I first submitted it), just so that I won't have to deal with it.&nbsp; lol
1582266150

Edited 1582266219
Pat S.
Forum Champion
Sheet Author
Gold said: That's so smart and cool, Pat. Did not know that (either of the methods you told, sheetworkers or renaming attributes). Making "Sheetworkers" sounds like a type of computer language programming that would be out of my capacity. But maybe I can recruit or hire someone to help set it up. Please support this SUGGESTION thread if anyone agrees, I think it would help a lot and in some cases solve this issue: <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/7926666/more-than-1-character-sheet-template" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/7926666/more-than-1-character-sheet-template</a> Actually it is a computer language. Javascript I think but ask theAaron about it as he wrote a major piece that I use (and probably many others). Now the thing about more than one sheet template is how all the sheets load upon entrance. If you have 3 different types of sheets, think of that lag in the highly complex ones. Oh, sorry Lore for highjacking your thread somewhat.
1582279815
Gold
Forum Champion
The Suggestion is initially for 2 sheets, not 3+. D&amp;D 5E + Pathfinder, would be a lot of attributes, yes. If you load dozens of Characters in each, yeah that could get laggy. Vampire game + Werewolf game, would not be that much. D&amp;D 5E + any old school renaissance, compatible or clone game, would not be much overhead added at all. Any game + DM's custom NPC sheet for that game. Any game + DM's custom Monster sheet for that game. Any game Character Sheet plus that game's Vehicle Sheet. I don't get why macros wouldn't work. I do understand that if both sheets have the same-named attribute, then one or the other's value (data) would(might) be overwritten, that would small loss among a larger advantage I think. Could be wrong. It's something you can obviously do at a real kitchen tabletop (I have the stats for Superman from this game, I want to use him in Monopoly... ok cool you have a small person with a cape in monopoly now). Yes well he has Strength 99. Ok but Monopoly is not going to question your Strength score ever, just your cape color, that's all.
1582283073
GiGs
Pro
Sheet Author
API Scripter
All of those options can be handled under the current system easily enough, if the designer codes the sheet. At least the ones it makes sense to - You absolutely should not have D&amp;D and Pathfinder characters in the same game, or 5E plus OSR characters.&nbsp; But one of the World of Darkness sheets copes for vampires, werewolves, mages, etc., in the same game, and many sheets have supplemental sheets for npcs, monsters, vehicles, or whatever. These can be handled by the sheet designer, when it makes sense to do so. Adding some system for GMs to add custom sheets to an existing sheet to match their needs would be nice, but the roll20 technology doesnt allow it. Adding stuff to an existing sheet requires programming, and it cant be done in a live game-&nbsp; you have to get at the coding interface, and write html, css, and maybe javascript.&nbsp; The best sheet designers could do is add a Custom Tab, and add some text boxes and repeating sections, for GMs to name and use however they want. But it's impossible to really plan for what GMs would need in advance, that such an approach owuld be pretty rudimentary. In my homebrew sheets I usually have such a tab for GMs to note down common rolls they need when they dont want to make a character for them, and notes they take during a session, but there's no standardised approach to this that would suit everyone. On a related topic, if you want to convert characters and creatures between different&nbsp; game systems , the character sheet system will never be able to do that for you. You have to decide what you want to keep from the original system and how you convert the stats. Every GM will do this differently. The best way to do this is what I suggested above: open a copy in a different browser, and decide what stats you want to transfer over, and what you want to change them to.