Token Layer Z-Ordering Not Working for Specific Tokens

Apologies if this has been solved already, there are a lot of threads about similar issues but I couldn't be sure it was the same issue I'm experiencing. I have certain specific tokens, both with identical control sets (All players & GM) that are not respecting their Z-orders.  To front/To back changes nothing, one token is always on top of the other. What is going on here?  Why is this simple layer of tokens broken?  This is really frustrating.

Does one represent a character, and one is an unassociated token? There were some changes early last year to make sure that PC tokens were always visible, but I constantly forget what the rules are.

Both tokens are set to represent identical characters/players.  "All players & GM" are set for both tokens but I can toggle this to any other configuration or remove it completely and I am still totally unable to control the z-ordering for specific tokens.  Some tokens seem to work fine, others do not.

Actually, if I remove the control set completely from both tokens the layering will work.  But when they had identical control sets they were not respecting their z-orders. Man this is a really really dumb "feature"

One token now with some testing has changed its behavior relative to one token, but keeping the broken behavior relative to another.  Jesus roll20 why.......why....why....why...... Note to devs everywhere:  NEVER take away control from the users.  It might sound like a good idea somewhere in your red-bull addled sleep deprived mind.  IT'S NOT.

Here is the latest info I could find on t token z-ordering. My guess is your issue might stem from one token having sight.: Token Z-Order Tokens you control display above tokens you don't own. This was previously released, then rolled back to address issues brought up by users. It has been tested on the Dev server for a while now. If you control a token that has sight, it displays in front of other tokens. This prevents users from losing their tokens under Advanced Fog of War, Fog of War, and Dynamic Lighting. The token and its bars and icons will appear above the black fog of war. The player who controls the sighted token will always see it in front of tokens they do not control or which do not have sight. This is true even if the GM has changed their order. GMs can reorder all tokens relative to each other. The player controlling the token will always see their token in front, but other players will see the token where the GM has set it (in front of or behind other tokens). If the player controls more than one token with sight, the tokens will overlap either in the order the GM has set them, or with the most recently dropped token in front.  Using CTRL-L, the GM will see what the token sees, with that token in front of other tokens, if it has sight. If the token does not have sight, the GM will see it in the z-order the GM set. Things that did not change in token z-ordering: Tokens you control that do not have sight (commonly used for spell templates) are not pulled to the front.  Tokens you do not control that other players control are not pulled to the front. Tokens are layered with the most recently-dropped token in front by default. Some example use cases: You have a mount and a PC token, and both have sight. For the PC to appear in front of the mount, you'll want to either drop the PC token onto the tabletop last, or reorder them using the right-click menu to send the mount to the back. You have a PC that you control, and a spell template that everyone in the game controls. The spell template does not have "has sight" enabled. When you drag and drop it onto the tabletop, it will appear behind all tokens that are controlled by other players and have sight. Please post any issues or feedback with this feature to  this bug report thread .

I have added the above information to the Wiki .

Thank you, that appears to be what is happening.  The problem is what if I want a a character token, who represents an NPC and thus is only controlled by the GM and does not have sight to ride in the back of a wagon that is controlled by a player and does not have sight. It seems inevitably the player controlled wagon token is going to swallow up the GM controlled NPC token.  Maybe with some further testing I can get this to work. Ditto for any chest, torch, or other non-character item token that needs to rest on the wagon as well say as a MacGuffin that needs to be guarded or some such. I think making this not 100% controllable by the GM was a huge mistake that needs to be rolled back. But I appreciate the information and the help you've given me.  I think I can fiddle with these settings and find something that will work now.

What if you gave the NPC sight? For all that that particular scenario will occur, it's probably not enough extra overhead to worry about. Dynamic Lighting (the feature which prompted this change—it fixed other problems) is getting a complete re-write and very soon. Hopefully this behavior can be changed.