LFG Frustration

Hello,   I'm Sins Galore, i'm sorry about this, but i'm getting a little frustrated.  I have been with roll20 for little over a year and I can't find a group.  I'm posting this because I was hoping to get a little feed back from the community.  Is anyone else having great difficulty looking for a group?  I tried the "Join a Game", post a topic in the forums, but never seem to get an invite.  Is there something that makes players stand out or that DM's are looking for?  I plan on getting a subscription but not until I find a group.  Anyway all mighty internet, what am I doing wrong? 

Hi - we're looking for one more player for our 5E game...group is about to start Descent into Avernus - if you're interested please send me a message

Sins G. said: Hello,   I'm Sins Galore, i'm sorry about this, but i'm getting a little frustrated.  I have been with roll20 for little over a year and I can't find a group.  I'm posting this because I was hoping to get a little feed back from the community.  Is anyone else having great difficulty looking for a group?  I tried the "Join a Game", post a topic in the forums, but never seem to get an invite.  Is there something that makes players stand out or that DM's are looking for?  I plan on getting a subscription but not until I find a group.  Anyway all mighty internet, what am I doing wrong?  Hey bud, generally this forum is pretty bad in terms of finding games.  It's flooded by players looking for groups and a bunch of the DM's are "pay to play".  I would suggest going to the DND-Beyond forums and trying there.   Also when I look at posts by players looking for groups the things I generally look for are the following.   What type of game they want to play "long term, short, or one shot".   Their availability Their D&D 5e experience Things of that nature

There are like 100 players for every DM available, that's the issue. There's really not a fix for it.

Give an example of your applications? I'll be frank; as a DM myself I ignore any applications that look generic and low-effort. If you can't make a proper application, it tell me you won't be a proper player.

I usually pick up every player who is interested. Didn't think it was that hard to find a group. 

Sins G. said: Hello,   I'm Sins Galore, i'm sorry about this, but i'm getting a little frustrated.  I have been with roll20 for little over a year and I can't find a group.  I'm posting this because I was hoping to get a little feed back from the community.  Is anyone else having great difficulty looking for a group?  I tried the "Join a Game", post a topic in the forums, but never seem to get an invite.  Is there something that makes players stand out or that DM's are looking for?  I plan on getting a subscription but not until I find a group.  Anyway all mighty internet, what am I doing wrong?  I’m sorry for your troubles. Keep at it. It’s like fishing, persistence is sometimes rewarded. Post your time zone and days of the week availability in your profile and include that info in each and every post you put on the LFG forum. Be willing to play other games besides D&D, if that is your focus. Many players just want D&D and I understand that but sometimes there’s other games out there. I, myself, am taking a break from GMing D&D for a while (I ran a 1.5 year long game on Roll20) and now I run other game systems. Robert L. said: There are like 100 players for every DM available, that's the issue. There's really not a fix for it. According to the Roll20 blog, there are 5 million users (March 4). That means the 100-to-1 ratio is 50k GMs. I suspect that value is higher than actual but I have no data to support that. Yes, there is a fix. Be willing to GM and increase the GM pool. I am one of those ‘forever’ GMs of the 50k. In the 7 years I have been on Roll20, I have spent the vast majority of time as a GM. I have been a player in 7-9 games in that time, the majority which have had less than 6 sessions.  That’s not a complaint, just a fact. I enjoy GMing. I’m running 3 games now (total 6 sessions per month) but I also like to play, sometimes. Everyone reading this:  Be willing to become a GM. It’s not that hard. Accept you will make mistakes and learn from them. Tell your players you are new at this so they’re going to have to cut you slack. Accept only respect and respect the players in turn. /Matt

Sins G. said: Hello,   I'm Sins Galore, i'm sorry about this, but i'm getting a little frustrated.  I have been with roll20 for little over a year and I can't find a group.  I'm posting this because I was hoping to get a little feed back from the community.  Is anyone else having great difficulty looking for a group?  I tried the "Join a Game", post a topic in the forums, but never seem to get an invite.  Is there something that makes players stand out or that DM's are looking for?  I plan on getting a subscription but not until I find a group.  Anyway all mighty internet, what am I doing wrong?  "Roll20: Roleplaying, now with the frustrating taste of online dating!"

ryanxwonbin said: Give an example of your applications? I'll be frank; as a DM myself I ignore any applications that look generic and low-effort. If you can't make a proper application, it tell me you won't be a proper player. It's nonsense, but I guess if you need an arbitrary filter it's as good as anything else you'll pull out of thin air.

Ah I've been running for over 35 years and never had an issue finding players.  Now finding players that who aren't flaky and show up...that's another issue LOL.  Of course I don't really play 5E I tend towards other systems (Dungeon World, Gumshoe, Call of Cthulhu, Cthulhutech, Cyberpunk, Superhero(FASERIP, Hero, V&V), Pathfinder (though giving it up for a while), Deadlands, Shadowrun, Star Wars (WEG d6-SAGA), Star Trek (all versions), Traveller, Tunnels and Trolls, etc... But I'll freely admit it's different when you specify [LFP] vs. [LFG] What I have done for my most successful groups is recruit GMs.  We keep rotating who is running so no one burns out.  Even if you have not run before eventually we get everyone to run at least once.  As a GM I find other GMs have more buy in when it comes to gaming and are less likely to treat it as a "on-demand" entertainment that they can blow off without even the courtesy of a "sorry cannot make it."  What many players don't realize is most games are a labor of love but do take many hours to create and set up.   I have never charged for my games but can see why many GMs get burned out when they basically 'prep their house for a dinner party' and no one shows up. So if you really want a group, try GMing.  Good luck! EDIT: Read the above message...so 4 million players to 50k GMs I knew the ratio was bad...didn't know it was that extreme.  Kind of like the folks to pay for subs so the rest can play for free eh? :) Sins G. said: Hello,   I'm Sins Galore, i'm sorry about this, but i'm getting a little frustrated.  I have been with roll20 for little over a year and I can't find a group.  I'm posting this because I was hoping to get a little feed back from the community.  Is anyone else having great difficulty looking for a group?  I tried the "Join a Game", post a topic in the forums, but never seem to get an invite.  Is there something that makes players stand out or that DM's are looking for?  I plan on getting a subscription but not until I find a group.  Anyway all mighty internet, what am I doing wrong? 

The best advice I can give a new player here is BE PATIENT and be open to games other than 5E. 5E games are very popular.  You will notice pretty much any 5E game in a good time slot will often have upwards of 50 applicants or more.  All competing for 4 to 6 slots.  You probably won't get accepted into the first game you apply to, nor your second, third, or eighth.  Applying to games is somewhat of an art and I'll go into that a bit more below.  Keep in mind, for pretty much any game, the GM will most likely NOT let you know you didn't get picked.  Only the selected candidates usually get contacted by a GM.  Don't take this personally.  It's usually just too much work a GM to send out 50 "Sorry" messages and they can't leave a general post in the LFG because it won't be visible as soon as the group is filled.   On the other hand, there are a number of non-5E games out there you can cut your teeth on and get into relatively easily.  There are a lot of fun systems out there now that are not D&D so just explore the Join Game section if you want.   Some tips: 1.  Pay attention to the game ad or listing and make sure you answer any questions the GM raises in there.  If there's an application, be sure to answer all the questions.  You don't need to write an essay but make sure the GM can get a feel for you as a player based on your responses.  Good GMs don't take players first come, first serve.  They're usually more interested in your characteristics  as a player  rather than your proposed character.   2.  It's okay to apply to multiple games at once.  3.  Don't get discouraged if you never hear from a GM about your application.  Some people will let you know you didn't make it but most will just contact the people they are interested in selecting. 4.  Pay attention to other players' applications and see what you can learn from them.  If the GM has already picked some players for the game, see if you can find their applications in the listing and look for the things that seem to set them apart from the rest of the crowd.  Learn from them what makes an application successful as you browse the game listings. 5.  Look for GMs who seem to be picky about who they choose.  This tends to make for a better game experience if you get in. 6.  If you're anxious to get started ASAP, pay to play is an option.  You can find those games in the game listings and here in the forum.  There's usually little to no application process as long as you have the cash.  In my experience, game quality is usually good but no better really than most responsible free GMs here.  It's main advantage is being easy to get into one. 7.  Don't give up.  Don't get discouraged if your first games fall apart or aren't good.  It can take a little while but eventually you will find the right games for you.  8.  When using the Group Finder,  don't  tick off the Welcomes New Players Only box.  A lot of people forget to set this when they list their game and fully 95% of GMs are open to new players as long as you're willing to make an effort to learn.   Do  tick off the Mature Content box.  This isn't for ERP or erotic games.  It typically means the game may not be suitable for young folks or people with highly sensitive ears.  Adult language is expected, the game may touch on "adult" topics like drinking, drugs, etc.  It's also commonly used in horror setting games because of depictions of graphic violence, etc.

Erik M. said: ryanxwonbin said: Give an example of your applications? I'll be frank; as a DM myself I ignore any applications that look generic and low-effort. If you can't make a proper application, it tell me you won't be a proper player. It's nonsense, but I guess if you need an arbitrary filter it's as good as anything else you'll pull out of thin air. Lets say I have three candidates. I ask in my application process to tell me a bit about oneself and what he seeks from my game. I state I am looking for RP-driven players who are going to stick to my game for the long-term. One is someone who explains himself well, talks about what kind of game he wants, explains why he wanted to play my game, talks about experiences he had in past games, read over the description for my game and created an appropriate character that incorporates the setting. He gives me his discord and states he wants to do an interview. The second is someone who just says "Hey I'm John looking for some fun and I want to play an Aarakocra Sorcerer who kicks ass." The third copy pasted some format from another application he had and just threw it in my application thread in hopes of getting in. Tell me why its nonsense to think the former is far better for my game than the latter applicants.

I would also look for Discord groups for your chosen game. 

Would you like to join a discord server for dnd, we have multiple games a day were kind, friendly and accept anyone even if they are new to dnd and roll 20 or experienced. Feel free to pm me

I have to say my main problem is the people who want a fully fleshed out backstory. My mind just doesn't work that way. I create blank slates and then play them. The character and personality develop through gameplay. One of my most memorable characters was in a game of Serenity (Firefly RPG). Big guy named Lug. Strong, fast, good with guns, and dumb. Think Jane mixed with waterboy. He was the muscle of the group, but his simple mindedness cause the players and GM to be rolling with laughter practically every game session. And his backstory developed through gameplay. When new elements of his previously unknown past were brought to light, it just caused even more hilarity. That's fun for me. Now if you can flesh that out on the fly, props to you. But I can't. Most of my applications get turned down because of this. But I look at it this way. You can't please everyone.

Davien said: I have to say my main problem is the people who want a fully fleshed out backstory. My mind just doesn't work that way. I create blank slates and then play them. The character and personality develop through gameplay. One of my most memorable characters was in a game of Serenity (Firefly RPG). Big guy named Lug. Strong, fast, good with guns, and dumb. Think Jane mixed with waterboy. He was the muscle of the group, but his simple mindedness cause the players and GM to be rolling with laughter practically every game session. And his backstory developed through gameplay. When new elements of his previously unknown past were brought to light, it just caused even more hilarity. That's fun for me. Now if you can flesh that out on the fly, props to you. But I can't. Most of my applications get turned down because of this. But I look at it this way. You can't please everyone. Nobody expects a full backstory in a character application. That's silly. Most DMs would prefer not to read a 10-paragraph backstory when reading their applications. If they do ask for a character background, a very short, brief character outline is more than enough.

ryanxwonbin said: Nobody expects a full backstory in a character application. That's silly. Most DMs would prefer not to read a 10-paragraph backstory when reading their applications. If they do ask for a character background, a very short, brief character outline is more than enough. I would say that's down to game. Personally, I wouldn't expect it for D&D, because that's not how most people play D&D, and that's not really how D&D works. On the other hand, when I last ran Fading Suns, someone submitted about five page of backstory to me and I was more than happy with it, because A) it demonstrated that he had read the (admittedly somewhat dense) setting material and made an effort to create a character that conformed to it, and B) had in-character justifications for what he was putting on his character sheet (Fading Suns allows for purchases of things like noble birthrights, spy networks, and small businesses at character creation, so telling me what those things are to your character and how she got them is important, particularly if you hope to make story hooks out of them). To echo what some others have said here, tailor your application to the GM, and I would add, tailor your application to the game (if you're looking to play something other than 5E).

ryanxwonbin said: Erik M. said: It's nonsense, but I guess if you need an arbitrary filter it's as good as anything else you'll pull out of thin air. Lets say I have three candidates. I ask in my application process to tell me a bit about oneself and what he seeks from my game. I state I am looking for RP-driven players who are going to stick to my game for the long-term. One is someone who explains himself well, talks about what kind of game he wants, explains why he wanted to play my game, talks about experiences he had in past games, read over the description for my game and created an appropriate character that incorporates the setting. He gives me his discord and states he wants to do an interview. The second is someone who just says "Hey I'm John looking for some fun and I want to play an Aarakocra Sorcerer who kicks ass." The third copy pasted some format from another application he had and just threw it in my application thread in hopes of getting in. Tell me why its nonsense to think the former is far better for my game than the latter applicants. Cool strawman bro, construct me another. "If you can't make a proper application, it tell me you won't be a proper player." is what's nonsense. Not having time or energy to write out a lengthy, detailed individually crafted application for every one of what might be 10 or 20 games someone has applied to on any given day is in no way representative of their reliability, attentiveness, creativity or ability to make a fun contribution once in the game. There's always more people wanting in on a game than there are spaces, and as a DM you want a quick and easy filter rather than having to take the time to interview every applicant. That's fine. But not making what you consider to be a 'proper application' doesn't tell you anything about the person as a player, just their capacity for busywork at the moment they were browsing your add. Claiming otherwise just makes you look bad.

Erik M. said: Cool strawman bro, construct me another. "If you can't make a proper application, it tell me you won't be a proper player." is what's nonsense. Not having time or energy to write out a lengthy, detailed individually crafted application for every one of what might be 10 or 20 games someone has applied to on any given day is in no way representative of their reliability, attentiveness, creativity or ability to make a fun contribution once in the game. There's always more people wanting in on a game than there are spaces, and as a DM you want a quick and easy filter rather than having to take the time to interview every applicant. That's fine. But not making what you consider to be a 'proper application' doesn't tell you anything about the person as a player, just their capacity for busywork at the moment they were browsing your add. Claiming otherwise just makes you look bad. What would you recommend as an alternative?

Filling out the typical application on Roll20 takes 5 to 10 minutes.  Most ask similar questions so you can save your responses in a text file and reuse them.  Think of it like a resume to get your foot in the door. Lots of GMs interview their first round pics to learn more about them and see how they might fit into the game, but I don't know any GM who interviews all applicants.  They just don't have the time to have Discord chats with 30 to 50 people to start narrowing down their candidate pool when they can use a quick questionnaire to make it easier. You're free to not fill out an application. GMs are free to skip over you.  These are just suggestions on how to improve your chances at getting selected for a game.  

I couldn't possibly speak on behalf of other GMs of course, but here's what I look for: 1- A player bio in the Roll20 profile. This is the first thing I look at when a player expresses an interest in one of my games. I'm not looking for a huge novel or intimate details about a person, but by the time I get to the end of the bio, I should have some small idea of who you are, where you are (for time zone purposes), and a general idea of the kind of games you like. Bonus points if there's some mention of the style of gaming you prefer (action and combat heavy, political intrigue with lots of RP, horror elements...etc). When I see an empty bio or one with no pertinent information, while I may not rule out the player outright, they do go to "the bottom of the pile" as it were.   2- This is a personal preference and GMs will likely differ greatly on this, but I much prefer character concepts that can be presented in no more than three sentences. Character backgrounds are fun and everything, but I'm far more interested in what happens during the game than what happened before it starts. It also gets to the core of the character idea and helps me envision the role the character will play as part of the group. 3- I'll reiterate what was stated in previous posts; don't be afraid to try games other than D&D. Don't get me wrong, it's a fine game and there's a reason so many people want to play it. But here's the thing, it's my belief that it's a little silly to grab a bunch of random strangers off the internet, throw them together and expect to have a successful, long term game. Good groups are built over time. When you play other games, aide from being easier to get into, you also meet different people with different play styles and you slowly start to get a sense for who you gel with and who you don't. Those people in turn will invite you to other games where you meet even more people. Sooner or later, D&D will come up, and hopefully by then you'll have gotten a few people you get along with and play well with, and the D&D group will come together much more smoothly.  Just my observation.