I am wanting to start a D&D 3.5e/pathfinder mix that makes use of Gestalt rules (3.5e) and Mythic rules (PF)

Those that are familiar with these rules know this will be a very high powered game. I wont be using published adventures since I think published adventures facilitate a mind set of railroading players (not always of course but its really easy to get into thinking, the adventure must continue as written... and I dont like that, I like the players choices to make real and significant changes in the story progression and world). This will be an essentially 3.5e game that makes use of PF's changes to classes (since I think they did some good things with some classes); and I may just use combat maneuver rules for simplicity (but that decision will be upto the players). I will be using 3.5e spells but PF has make some spells more clear in their use and if someone really wants to use a PF version of a spell they can (notably PF has make clearer antimagic; since in 3.5e it was ambiguous as to whether you could cast a spell in an antimagic field if the point of origin of the spell was outside of the field, although I use the version of the spell where you CAN cast in an antimagic field as long as the point of origin of the spell is not within the field, makes the spell much more useful for players and not merely a way for DM's to screw with spellcasters). Also, note we can start at any level the players want to start (if players are experienced and want to do so then I am willing to start at level 20 and make this an epic game but if that is going to happen then all the players must be experienced since epic level play can get out of hand really quick). Also, the general campaign flavor is totally upto the players as well (do you want sci-fi? medieval? Do you want alot of interactions with Gods? Angels? Devils? etc etc... Do you want to play evil PC's? Do you want to be in a young world (where not very many great and powerful people and civilizations have arose or where dragons are in power etc etc)? an old world? Very liberal with where the campaign starts and I encourage Players to create as much backstory as possible that I can integrate into the world (feel free to create cities, towns, Gods, history, noteworthy people... the list goes on). Of course I have a general idea that I am working with, but it is malleable and subject to changes. If anyone would be interested then let me know. I am planning on starting in a week or two and the day will most likely be a friday, saturday or sunday.

I am interested in playing this.

I am also interested and have a friend who is probably also interested. Friday or Saturday evening would be best. I'd just want to know what 3.5 sources are available.

Any and all 3.5e sources are available (and some 3.0 edition PrC's that were not reproduced in 3.5e). Also, most PF sources are available and if there is a discrepancy between PF and 3.5e ill usually go with 3.5e (or the option most advantageous for the player). I will be using 3.5e as a base but I may adopt some PF stuff (like combat maneuver rules). Really though PF and 3.5e are very similar, enough so that I dont envision very many problems intergated the rules of each. So it may be good just to look for PF things that are new and not merely remakes of 3.5e (though like I said i am using PF base classes and PF classes like the witch, orcale, alchemist are available so are classes like swordmage or psion or warlock; but note if you go psion or swordmage or one of the more exotic classes I will rely on you to know your moves since im not too familiar with all the abilities of those classes). Also, it is upto the players whether they want to use PF polymorph spells or 3.5e polymorph spells (3.5e have the potential to be more powerful but PF is much easier to use and adjudicate). However, no pun pun or anything like that will be allowed. Also, I am all for Players creating their own PrC or feats etc (subject to my approval of course). In fact creating your own PrC would be something that I would encourage.

I am very liberal in terms of choices also I would even allow use of savage species but that may just complicate things unduly (since gestalt and level adjustment doesnt really jive well, but im sure we could work something out). Actually I am even thinking about just using PF's race creation rules where everyone has like 25 Race points and creates a race for themselves (of course the backstory and history of the race as a whole would be upto the whims of the player creaitng the race).

Of course if the players dont want or like the vast amount of choices allowing all the rulebooks brings with it then we an easily change what is available and whatnot.

That certainly is a lot of choices, but I think general things like the setting should probably be discussed before getting into which sources are used.

Yeah that is probably a good idea.

Just to get the discussion started about general campaign ideas: I have a few suggestions: A tree of mana, deku tree, Yddgrasil meets upside down (the movie) thing were two planets formed in such a way as to allow two giantic trees to grow up from either planet and eventually connect the two planets together (so the planets would be connected by a giant tree, Yddgrasil, the tree supports its own eco-system, as it spurts out alot of rich gases, so even in the canopy of the tree, which is located in between the two planets in space, one can survive. Also, the roots go deep into the two planets and those that live underground have hollowed out many roots and even the trunk of the tree is hollowed out at points and has many towns and great cities). I have in mind some hyrulean esque PrC's. I am throwing around ideas of the planets being like light and dark sort of like one is sucking energy from the other or something. But I can go alot of ways with this idea. I am thinking of starting you guys off in one of the lower planes, where some event (maybe being sucked in a maelstorm that acted as a conduit to Hell or the abyss or something) that brought you to a lower plane and you have to escape (very hard campaign idea as you guys will be targets of fiendish forces, but most lower planes are gigantic places and its not as if every point in the lower plane is infested by fiendish creatures). Of course escaping is not the whole of the campaign and you guys may escape rather quickly. Maybe a young world idea where the creatures are young and gods are just forming (you guys would be beacons of power and may achieve godhood in this path it would/could be more focused on large scale wars between nations (and planes) and politic than other paths). A time travely campaign similar to chrono trigger in that you would have access to some type of time travel device (maybe even something like a butterfly effect thing were you have the ability to go back to select points in time and 'redo' what has already been done, maybe for the better or for the worst). A space exploration thread where you would rather quickly get access to a space ship that travels the stars (alot of down time in this campaign long lived races would be more appropriate in fact I may force you guys to be an outsider if this is a path you find appealing since most outsiders live forever unless killed). A dragon heavy campaign where you would assist a dragon in the great game (Xorvintaal, a game true dragons play that is like chess with people and towns and cities used as pieces; this would be a campaign that is politics heavy and with alot of small scale warring; In fact I wouldnt be opposed to all the players actually playing a dragon that has just started Xorvintaal). These ideas are of course not mutually exclusive and none I am dead set on also they are just very general ways to setup the campaign and the specifics are to come and I am up for general suggestions about what would be interesting to the players. The campaign (no matter what path) will be a sandbox style game. My job is to create a reasonably consistent world that has places to go and things to do (and tht has NPC's with their own goals and desires and plans) but I dont want to set in stone what you do and where you go. Of course some of these ideas would work better if the players started out at a higher level than 1. And this post is really just posted to spur discussion not necessarily to give you choices you must choose from.

I'm not huge on space exploration, but like the feel of eberron with the airships and such.

ohh yeah and a very big thing to figure out is if the players want to play an evil campaign or not.

I personally think the first, dual world trees, sounds very interesting. I don't think I would personally play an evil character, but wouldn't be against it if someone wanted to.

I prefer groups that are good as well. It solves alot of potential infighting that evil usually brings.

Does anyone have a preference to start at a higher level than 1 (or to play an epic level game)?

I'd like to start at level 3 and don't really like playing epic levels personally.

this all sounds fun. im good with starting at 1st level to about 5th or 6th level myself. whatever works for everyone else

Third level sounds like a great point to start.

Ok third level is good for me. Also, would people like to create their own races using PF race creation rules or would you want me to create like 9 or so races to choose from or would you just want the standard race options (the races you or I create would have 30 RP so they would be on average 'better' than the standard race options)? As a note my preferred option is to have you guys create your race yourself (so I dont have to create the history and description of so many races myself and so you guys would get what you want out of your race. Since if I created them i would need to be representative of player options and would need to create at least 1 or more races for each ability (STR, DEX), etc.

i have to look at the race creation rules, but I'm fine creating my own race. It would basically be a human with more feats and stats since human is a requirement for something I'd want to use later.

Here is a link to PF race creation rules if anyone needs it: <a href="http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advancedRaceGuide/raceBuilder.html" rel="nofollow">http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advancedRaceGuide/raceBuilder.html</a>

Nice, have not played a gestalt game in awhile. Do you have any spaces open?

Hayato, yeah there is room still.

Question on character generation: Are you using point buy or rolls?

a 34 point buy (using PF point buy tables)

Everyone is required to create their own race using PF race builder (you get 34 RP to spend how you wish). A small history of the race would be preferred.

Is there any place to discuss and bounce ideas off you/other players other than the making this thread grow larger and larger? Coming up with a race and history for them is pretty tough in a vacuum.

Yeah, it's about time to make a campaign and start inviting people. I'm 99% done with my character at the moment.

I see rules for gaining "racial stat increases" and how its kind unlimited how much you can increase a stat/adding 1 RP each time. There has to be some kind of a limit how many times you can add +2 to a stat. Homebrew rule at the very least. Having like STR 40 or DEX 40 seems like overkill/less fun to me.

There is a limit, you can only take 5 things max in one section (i ended up taking almost all 5 in the skill race section). There is also a scale up on stats. The scale up is it costs 4 for the first 2 then 5 for the next 2, then 6, then 7. You can only afford +10 to a stat with the race buy he presented assuming you took the very best starting buy (advanced). 4+5+6+7+8=30 and the best starting buy cost 4. A +14 to a stat is actually a very suboptimal use of the race buy considering what is available.

The limit is there in the RP cost. It doesn't go from a +2 to strength for 4 points to a +4 bonus for 5 points. It costs 4 points to raise it by 2, then another, seperate, five points to raise that to 4 for a total of 9 RP spent.

Jon G. said: The limit is there in the RP cost. It doesn't go from a +2 to strength for 4 points to a +4 bonus for 5 points. It costs 4 points to raise it by 2, then another, seperate, five points to raise that to 4 for a total of 9 RP spent. Even if he made it a 100 buy, we'd still have the limit of 5 picks per header. The stat raising section is its own section. Anyway, I highly advise against taking more than a +6 (for a total +10 with advanced) in one stat due to what can be bought elsewhere being better than stats.

This seems really interesting, not the least because I love me some gestalt, so if you're still looking for players, I'd like to be considered. Also, Shadow, you may be interpreting those rules incorrectly. Each time you take the +2, you add an additional 1 to the RP cost of the trait, so a +4 costs 9 RP, +6 is 15 RP, and so on. Even just +10 is a ludicrous 39 RP, let alone the +18-22 you'd need for such a high score from the start. Then again, even if you went that route, I think it would be a disservice to the GM; he's giving us 34 RP so we can make interesting races, not so we can min-max the living daylights out of a campaign. (On that note, I love me some undead races, and have designed one I really like. Should be nicely balanced, though the odd point buy rules of PF when a creature has no Con score may throw a wrench into it, and I'll probably have to compensate on the buy so it doesn't come out with ridiculous stats.)

Tyler said: This seems really interesting, not the least because I love me some gestalt, so if you're still looking for players, I'd like to be considered. Also, Shadow, you may be interpreting those rules incorrectly. Each time you take the +2, you add an additional 1 to the RP cost of the trait, so a +4 costs 9 RP, +6 is 15 RP, and so on. Even just +10 is a ludicrous 39 RP, let alone the +18-22 you'd need for such a high score from the start. Then again, even if you went that route, I think it would be a disservice to the GM; he's giving us 34 RP so we can make interesting races, not so we can min-max the living daylights out of a campaign. (On that note, I love me some undead races, and have designed one I really like. Should be nicely balanced, though the odd point buy rules of PF when a creature has no Con score may throw a wrench into it, and I'll probably have to compensate on the buy so it doesn't come out with ridiculous stats.) IIRC you get your CHA mod to hps per hd in Pathfinder for undead (due to having a d8 instead of d12). I think we'll be fine with power if the casters remember their role is to make the bruiser's jobs easier and not to instantly end encounters (unless they feel a tpk coming). It's funny how alot of the Mythic stuff is stuff you were normally just allowed to do in a somewhat limited fashion in 3.5. I'm actually hoping for a crusader//??? character to hide behind.

I'm really interested in this game, I've never had the chance to play in a campaign with so much customization. When do you plan to get started, and what times are you available for DMing?

Yeah, the problem is that if you lack a Con score with a point buy, it's the same as leaving your Con at 10. There's no penalty to the number of points you get for the buy, so with the proper RP use I can have a 10/16/-/18/16/22 array with no drawback to HP or Fort saves. And because of how the racial buy rules work, any race created with them advances by class level, so they're not limited to d8 hit die. So, hello, Sorcerer with 22 Cha and hit points/spellcasting based off of that 22... (Not that I'd cheese it that much, obviously...)

I kinda exaggerated a bit on purpose on making a point. no math was used but just seeing how theres no limit in the RP useage to stats just kind of made it seem broken to me.

I think they tried to account for that with the high rp cost of being undead. You also have the penalty of not being healed by positive energy, which is actually a big drawback unless you invest into other means of healing (which you probably will). I suggest using blacksand shenanigans. Anyway, don't over-think it, just play something that can scale up or down depending on how things go. An undead sorc//necro with an undead army would be interesting.

Shadow said: I kinda exaggerated a bit on purpose on making a point. no math was used but just seeing how theres no limit in the RP useage to stats just kind of made it seem broken to me. except you missed: Power Level RP Range Traits per Category Standard 1–10 3 Advanced 11–20 4 Monstrous 20+ 5

curious. whats everyone thinking of playing? Id like to try out Inquisitor with something

34 points for point buy stats gives me 16 16 14 14 12 12

I'm playing the item shop/buffer who may or may not eventually become a real caster of some sort (probably won't be necessary). No cleric should feel the need to waste valuable slots healing while I'm around (unless it's the end of the day and they have slots left). That said, my character is in no way martial at all, and is about as good as a level 1 commoner in combat. (so super squishy) Shadow said: 34 points for point buy stats gives me 16 16 14 14 12 12 sounds about right. let me check, yup. Pathfinder steps up on the evens instead of the odds like 3.5.

Soft said: I think they tried to account for that with the high rp cost of being undead. You also have the penalty of not being healed by positive energy, which is actually a big drawback unless you invest into other means of healing (which you probably will). I suggest using blacksand shenanigans. Anyway, don't over-think it, just play something that can scale up or down depending on how things go. An undead sorc//necro with an undead army would be interesting. Valid points. It's highly tempting to go for an Oracle with spontaneous Inflict spells, so that they're self-sufficient and can deal a bit of damage if need be, but it may be easier to go Alchemist if I can sub the Cure extracts for Inflict ones. Then I can take something like Summoner or Bard to take more of a support role, which is sort of how I designed the race to begin with. ETA: if you plan on being the party buffer, then it may be overall better for party comp if my Alchemist goes for Sorcerer over Summoner or Bard, just so we have some blasting power... If that's the case, a small adjustment will need to be made to my race.

Tyler said: Soft said: I think they tried to account for that with the high rp cost of being undead. You also have the penalty of not being healed by positive energy, which is actually a big drawback unless you invest into other means of healing (which you probably will). I suggest using blacksand shenanigans. Anyway, don't over-think it, just play something that can scale up or down depending on how things go. An undead sorc//necro with an undead army would be interesting. Valid points. It's highly tempting to go for an Oracle with spontaneous Inflict spells, so that they're self-sufficient and can deal a bit of damage if need be, but it may be easier to go Alchemist if I can sub the Cure extracts for Inflict ones. Then I can take something like Summoner or Bard to take more of a support role, which is sort of how I designed the race to begin with. Go for it. I'm more familiar with 3.5 stuff so I'm using that and trying to get redundancy with the mythic feats/talents so it will still feel Pathfinder. I'm not huge on taking more than 1 action per turn myself, be it from summons, items (belt of battle, doomwarding), class (psion, factotum(which i'm getting 3 levels of for skills), or even the mythic surge (which is pretty much a direct rip of Eberron action points so I'll be using them as such for my class).

Assuming times don't conflict and I get to play, I'd like to play something like a swordsage//dragonfire adept. Shall we discuss availability? I'm good Thursday-Tuesday, 3pm-1am CST.

In terms of creatures with no CON, you get a lower point buy

I think thats what it says in the race builder rules ill have to check

dont know though

Joey D. Make a new campaign and invite us with the link (found inside the game) so we can take this out of forums please.

adding 1 Rp to the total so if you want to get a +10 to WIS you need to spend 30 RP (that is +10 without advanced; edit: tyler already addressed this)

ok I will sorry

<a href="https://app.roll20.net/join/407327/3zbijw" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/join/407327/3zbijw</a>