Dynamic Lighting is (also) driving me nuts - I'm a different Andrew W.!

So first time DM on R20, having moved online like so many others. Purchased Curse of Stradh and saw it has dynamic lighting, coolbeans - upgraded so we can use it I cannot work it out! ALL my players have Darkvision - so their setups are all the same: Vision: On Darkvision: On - 60ft Has Sight: On - 360 degrees Advanced FoW reveal distance: 10 Ft (don't think this actually doe anything now?) Page settings are: Nothing on basic page enabled except: Restrict Movement On Dynamic Lighting Tab: Dynamic Lighting: On Explore Mode: On Daylight: Off ________________________________ Now the problem: It works, then all of a sudden players (and not all of them!) can see the entire map, within 60ft of their characters! The only things they cannot see are the GM layer. Any ideas, it's driving me loopy and at the moment a complete waste of money Thanks in advance

No one has any ideas? I really want to get this right before the next game on Sunday which will be the basement

It looks like you're using the new dynamic lighting feature? I haven't found it fit for purpose yet, it's still effectively being bug-tested. Try switching back to the legacy dynamic lighting and see how you go. I've played for a good chunk of hours and only seen one player bug out, revealing the entire map (including the DM layer). As you can see from the bug report thread , there's still a pretty solid list of known issues to work through before UDL is considered to have feature parity with the legacy system. The wiki page has tips for how to set up tokens for night vision in the legacy system, happy to help out if you have any dramas.

Thanks Andrew, I'll give it a shot

One question, using this (and I think I've got it right now) - how would you use FoW / AFoW? Thanks in advance Andy andrew p. said: It looks like you're using the new dynamic lighting feature? I haven't found it fit for purpose yet, it's still effectively being bug-tested. Try switching back to the legacy dynamic lighting and see how you go. I've played for a good chunk of hours and only seen one player bug out, revealing the entire map (including the DM layer). As you can see from the bug report thread , there's still a pretty solid list of known issues to work through before UDL is considered to have feature parity with the legacy system. The wiki page has tips for how to set up tokens for night vision in the legacy system, happy to help out if you have any dramas.

I don't know if this will help, as I am quite new, but I recently watched a video where the DM set the dynamic lighting (in a totally dark environment) to 30' for darkvision, as that's how far characters with darkvision can see in total darkness. This was on the legacy system.

Andrew W. said: One question, using this (and I think I've got it right now) - how would you use FoW / AFoW? Thanks in advance Andy I don't think FoW does much, if anything, once you have AFoW turned on. I could be wrong about that though. AFoW is pretty straight forward, just leave it on and doing its thing - the animation on the wiki page shows what a player will see. I'd generally have 'dim light reveals' ticked as I don't think mapping should be a chore, and little black patches in the corners of previously visited rooms really trigger me. Reasons for turning it off completely might be... a super dark and disorienting underwater cave system that you think the characters should have difficulty in mentally mapping? Note that the manual Reveal tool is still useful with AFoW - there could be areas where the players can never get Line of Sight, but you want them to be able to see the map layer - manual reveal will sort this out for you. For example: on top of rooves or battlements, or even just mountains where you've got dynamic lighting lines to restrict movement, but don't want the map cutting suddenly to pitch black. The AFoW also only shows a faded map layer to the players: no tokens or lights. So you can actually use dynamic lights and tokens to change what players will see once they're actually in LOS of an area... here's an example where it looks like the arena looks like quite simple when they players start with the map revealed, but the walls & openings are randomised each time: There's some other really cool examples around the forums, like using this trick to reveal the inside of buildings in a village. Hope it works out for you! The UDL system really needs some more time in the oven, it's particularly horrible for darkvision in 5e in its current form. I've not really had any dramas since I got the hang of the legacy system though.

Superstar! So basically AFoW is a 'yes' and it 'basically' means that any map they have revealed will remain for them, but tokens become hidden when they leave LOS - thats my read anyway :D

Yep, pretty much nailed it. If your players want to leave notes on the map, like "room where DM put a pit trap behind a secret door", you will need to move the text onto the map layer yourself so players can still read it when they leave.

Good advice, thank you!

So that worked really well, thanks Andrew P.! However my players don't like it... sigh... they like playing more strategically and in (as they are now) the basement of death house it means they can't see whats been described (as only the first player into the room can currently see it). Is there a way of making it so it shows all characters what all characters can see, so 'global' vision, but if no-one can see it, none of them can? Thank you!

I think the only way to achieve that is to give them permission on each others' tokens, or to give all players permission on the token you want them to be able to see. Maybe your players need to adjust their expectations? Having your party split, with someone separated and out of LOS of the healer, is all part of the fun! It encourages them to keep up good positioning out of combat.

Thanks Andy, I'll talk it through with the group and see what they want. At the end of the day it's 'my' game, but I want the group to have the most fun, and if they don't like it, then well, I try to find something that works for them

I have a phantom token I call "allsight," just a completely transparent png with an aura only visible to me.  It has sight, and is set for all players to control, but since they can't see the token/aura, it doesn't get moved.  I can drop it for example into an area of map that they have already explored, or that is very familiar to them, or that they can see due to altitude, etc.  Its vision does not pass through dynamic lighting walls, so I can put it into a passage without worrying about revealing anything else.  I can have it emit light if that makes sense, but sometimes I just need to allow them to see what is already lit.  This would wreak havoc with advanced fog of war, but I only use dynamic lighting and old-fashioned fog of war.  Maybe that will do what you need?

Valerie M. said:  This would wreak havoc with advanced fog of war, but I only use dynamic lighting and old-fashioned fog of war.  Maybe that will do what you need? I'm very interested to know more - this sounds like light crumbs with an extra twist! Do you have some examples?

It's basically light crumbs, I think -- I invented them independently so there may be differences.  I've found a lot of uses.  I keep the allsight character sheet at the top of the journal tab, easy to grab to put a token out.  The default setting is -emits light to 100 ft, -all players see light, -has sight, and -is controlled by all players.  You could set it to low light, torch size, whatever you like.  Because it respects the dynamic lighting lines, it will only reveal its own line of sight. When players explore, I drop one at corners to light the passage in both directions. It is manual, but that has advantages. Unlike AFoW, any NPC or monster tokens are visible, so I store them in the GM layer or on the other side of a DL wall.  If there's an annoying shadow, I can add another one.  For something I don't want to have revealed without me doing it directly I can keep it covered with fog of war. What the players know about, because they have explored it: What is really there, including areas they haven't found or explored yet: When players use scrying or clairvoyance, if I have the bad guys set up, I can drop an allsight into the area they are scrying, move the player ribbon to that page. and they can see the setting but not interact. Scrying evil temple, GM view (the small yellow square on the bottom step of the altar is the allsight): Player view (they can't see the passage or guards, they also don't see the allsight, but they see the priestess and acolytes): Does that sound like what your players are after?

Thats very interesting - How do you do that Valarie?

Here's how to set up the token: I use PowerPoint for simple image processing.  Open a presentation and draw a shape -- it doesn't matter what because it will be invisible.  Set the line to "no line" and fill to "no fill", right click, and save as picture.  Because it's invisible, this can be challenging -- select it, and make sure the cursor is on one of the visible boundaries of the selection area before right-clicking.  I save as png files because they always play well with transparent areas. Drag the file into an *uncluttered* page in Roll20 -- it is truly invisible, so if it gets deselected it's hard to find.  As soon as it loads, size it to fit your grid and open the token menu. Set an aura of 0 ft to whatever color is likely to show up on your maps.  On the lighting menu (legacy only for now) set  "emits light" to 100 ft, "all players see light," and "has sight."  IMPORTANT: make sure players do not have any permission on the aura -- if they control the token, they can see it unless you uncheck *both* boxes.  I have also unchecked permission on the nameplate, so if I want to make it more visible to me with a name, the players still won't see it.      Create a new character with a picture and name you will remember.  The only thing you need to set up is to ensure it is controlled by all players.  Don't put it in their journals unless you want them to be able to reveal whatever they want!  Save. Go back to the token menu and set it to represent the new character, [edit: also right click on the token, select "advanced" and "is drawing" to get rid of the radial menu that pops up every time it's selected] and then go back to the character, with the token still selected, to upload the token to the character sheet. That's the whole setup.  Now when you want characters to see an area without having a token there, pull out the allsight character and drop it in the middle of the room/hall/cavern/etc.

That... is... simply brilliant Thank you SO MUCH!

So glad I could help!