Understanding Dynamic Lighting

Ok, I don't think I'm understanding how lighting works, and the help files aren't a lot of help.  Here's what I've got: I created a page that is meant to be outdoors, not in a dungeon.  It's a forest scene.  I want to create "night" with a campfire emitting bright light for a short distance, and low light for a little more than that, and blackness beyond that.  I created a "campfire" token, and under the "Advanced" tab gave it under the "Emits Light" heading 30ft, 15ft, 360degrees intending it to be 30ft of light, with dim light starting after 15ft, and a 360degree radius.  I checked the "All players see light" box.   On the "Dynamic Lighting" tab, I set under "Token Emits Light", I turned on the "Bright Light" feature and set the distance to "10ft", and the "Low Light" feature set to "30ft".  Yes, I know this is not the same as the settings on the other tab but I wanted to see the difference in lighting, expecting the "old" dynamic lighting and the ''new" dynamic lighting to work the same way. On the page settings, I checked: "Dynamic Lighting Enabled" and "Enforce Line of Sight".  I then placed my player tokens on the map.  Each player token has sight.  I then logged in as one of the players, the one controlling the token that's just a bit above the others.  That token has sight, and I set the token up for "Darkvision" under 5e rules so darkness should seem like dim light and dim light should seem like bright light using the settings as found on one of the help pages.  This is how the page appeared to that "player": I then did the following:  I unchecked everything under "Dynamic Lighting" on the "Page Details" tab and switched to the new "Dynamic Lighting" tab and turned on "Dynamic Lighting" there.  I made absolutely no other changes.  This is how the page looked from the same player's perception: There seems to be a HUGE difference between the old dynamic lighting and the new dynamic lighting.   Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong?  As I said, I want a night scene with a campfire.  Players with "darkvision" should see a little more than the players without, but it should still be a low light scene. Thanks.

The new system is still in active development, it cannot currently do 5e darkvision. Just stick to legacy for now, would be my advice.

Well, thanks.  I'm sticking to legacy for now.  But, even with legacy, I'm not really getting the desired effect: bright light for some distance and dim light for some distance, and darkness beyond that.

If I'm understanding your screenshots correctly, it looks like the first one is working as intended? What specifically about that scenario is not working as expected?

The dim light part.  Above the campfire, where the character's darkvision doesn't reach, there should be dim light conditions for  about15ft.  At least, that's what's intended.  I don't see dim light conditions there, at least not for that distance. I've seen a number of different ways of specifying darkvision, and lighting: 60, 0; 30, 0 with a multiplier of 2; and 60, -5.  Oddly, and for reasons I cannot fathom, the last one does a better job of simulating the right conditions.  But, the campfire doesn't have darkvision.  It should just be emitting light.  I can't find anything anywhere that says how much light a campfire should emit but remembering my days back in camp eons ago, campfires typically gave really bright light if you were next to them and dim light some distance away - up to about 10-20 ft.  But, given the weirdness above with darkvision where 60, -5 makes some sort of sense to the system, I can't figure out how to specify the campfire giving bright light for x distance and dim light for y distance.

So the light radius specified starts at the outside of the token: a setting of -5 is needed to stop the token itself essentially being a circle of bright light. So 60/0 gives you dim light starting at the edge of the token, and 60/-5 gives you dim light starting from the centre of the token. This is based on a 5ft token, a large monster would need -10. Using the old system, a campfire would be something along the lines of 40/20 with 'all players see light'. That is, 40 feet of light, with dim light starting 20 feet out. That will give a 20ft diameter circle in the middle of bright light, another 20ft of dim light, that all players can see. Additionally, the dim light area will be brighter for players with darkvision when they get close enough, as their darkvision dim light is added to the fire's dim light. But it looks like that's already what the campfire is doing in the top screenshot? The circle of light is fading towards the top of the shot. There's something wrong with the player's vision in that top one though, but I'm assuming that wasn't with the 60/-5 settings. Probably a picture would save me rambling, sorcerer casting burning hands at the sand because he doesn't like sand. First shot is daylight, second two are at night. Left: Global illumination (daylight) - LOS still functions but all visible map & tokens are as brightly lit as they can be, further light settings do nothing. Middle: Sorcerer's View - Sorcerer has dark vision. He can dimly make out the tokens within 60ft, starts getting pretty dim past the lion. Spell is emitting light to 5 feet. Right: Bystander's View - Poor guy does not have dark vision. He can just see the caster's token, and has enough positional awareness to know where his own token is. Everything else is hidden. AFoW has the full map revealed in this case, which is why the map is visible in dim B&W. Otherwise the entire world outside the flame would be blackness. Is this what your expectations of the system are? It's similar to your setup - your campfire would want more light and more dim light than the burning hands spell (I think it's set to 5/0, emits light), and the Sorcerer with darkvision is set to 60/-5, does not emit light.

The problem is with overlapping light, as well as distance of vision, and I realize that there may not be a way around the problem in Roll20.  In 5e, Darkvision to 60ft means that, up to a range of 60ft, the character sees bright light as bright light, dim light as bright light and darkness as dim light.  In the following pictures, I changed the scale to 1 square equals 10 ft in order to illustrate the problem. In pic1, I just have the character on the map so you can see the setup.  In pic2, I have the lighting as seen from the character using CTL-L.  The character's vision is set to 60/-5.  It does not look to me like he is seeing dim light out to 60ft.  It looks to me like he's seeing dim light to 40ft, and dimmer light for another 10ft or so, and then nothing.  That's kind of ok, I suppose but not quite right.  Pic3 (on the bottom left) is after placing the campfire on the map.  The campfire is set to emit light 40/20.  You can see the bright light out to 30ft as seen from the character's view.  But the next band, of dim light, for about 20ft, *should* be bright light as seen by the character.  Pic4 is the exact same scene, except that the character does not have "darkvision".  There's no substantial difference between pic3 and pic4 and there should be.  Yes, there's a minor bit of difference but the character with darkvision should see more, further, than the character without darkvision.  The character with darkvision gets no real benefit from having darkvision.  This is what's bothering me, and my players.   I'm not sure if this is a deficiency in the Roll20 implementation, or a misunderstanding on my part of the "proper" settings.  And, if it's a deficiency in the Roll20 implementation, I would hope that the new Dynamic Lighting system can correct this problem.    

Hmmm yeah looks like there's something screwy there. Just checking then, you have the Multiplier set to 1x?

Yep.  

It's hard to tell from your screenshots, but is 360 entered in the fields or is that just the placeholder text? If it is, try blanking out both viewing angle fields. If you leave it blank, it assumes a 360 degree field of view. I think if you manually enter 360, it may confuse things.

It's grayed out - it's what Roll20 sticks in there as a placeholder, I guess.