Pathfinder sheet issues and suggestions

I don't understand your criticism Kyle. If the sheet didn't use code why use it at all? Why not just write down a sheet on Google Drive or Dropbox or similar sharing site to share with your players (which you've probably done so far while sheets weren't integrated) if you aren't gonna use the automation of the integrated sheet? Aside from that (and no offense meant to you Kyle), the coding is really rather simple to understand. You're doing a great job Sam! :) Will spell macros be editable just like weapons are now? I'm loving the customizable weapon macros. It allows for much easier multiple attacks in one click.

Yes, the spell macros will be editable and by default will follow closely to the format I laid out earlier in the thread. Be warned, it looks like crap when you use it because it's WAY too much information. It'd look better if the chat view was bigger or custom power cards were a native roll20 feature.

@Sam - I am trying to envision the spellbook lines and it all sounds quite good, but I saw that you mentioned the removal of used/max (I assume this to be the used/prepped), so will there be a recommended way to determine what is prepped and used each day? I have used this for two similar use cases (maybe this is specific to me though), but knowing what spells are prepped each day by my wizards/clerics is useful, while the used box allows us to keep track week to week if we need to stop for some reason "in the middle" of an encounter scene. I do realize that there is only so much room to store information in a line and agree that the information provided seems quite useful, so if these do need to go, then they need to go, just curious how others handle this use case (if they have it). Thanks!

Used/Prepped is just going to be one field called "prepped". The attribute will still be "used", there just won't be a max on the sheet anymore. What you'll do is just set the field to the number of that spell you've prepped for the day and decrement it as you use that spell. Virtually the same, you just won't know how much of that spell you originally prepped.

I see, that makes sense, for some reason I envisioned that you would be removing both fields, thanks for the clarification!

SorteKanin said: Aside from that (and no offense meant to you Kyle), the coding is really rather simple to understand. ((@{CON-mod} * @{level}) + (@{class-0-hp} + @{class-1-hp} + @{class-2-hp} + @{class-3-hp} + @{class-4-hp})) Simple right? Sort of for someone who doesn't have a friggin degree in programming and amazes himself that he can get a macro to work to begin with (I know, I'm such a troglodyte aren't I). Now let me break this down Barney style so that you get this because I thought simple conversation would work for you apparent coding gods. (@{class-0-hp} - Where is this in the NPC sheet? (@{class-1-hp} - Where is this in the NPC sheet? (@{class-2-hp} - Where is this in the NPC sheet? (@{class-3-hp} - Where is this in the NPC sheet? (@{class-4-hp} - Where is this in the NPC sheet? When does a dire boar gain levels? When does a tyrannosaur gain his levels in ranger? When does a shark no longer just classify as an animal (aquatic)? So what's next? A code to calculate automatic weapon enchantments with no field to enter the enchantment? You're going to personally tell Paizo that Hit Dice don't matter in a game because you don't want to code them? Another code to automatically fill something in when there's no entry field to input any information? I'm not arguing against simplicity, I enjoy that, it makes things simple as a GM to run a smoother game for the players. It makes things simple for the players so that once they can grasp how macros work, they can have everything at the click of a button without wasting their time. Proper coding can provide for that. But once areas that don't need (and probably shouldn't be) coding get coded, that's when simplicity starts to decline and I'm not sure if you realize this, but not everyone here knows how to work or even read code here on Roll20. I don't know if you can't see that because you're blinded by ignorance but just because it's simple to you doesn't make it simple to me. Hell if that was true, you'd totally understand why I'd have to make a trackbar adjustment while changing the crossweight adjustment in a stock car to gain 0.250 of a second in lap times. Oh god it's simple for me, so that's automatically simple for you right? You totally got that right? At what point in this entire post does this not make sense to you?

if you are so against learning "coding" then don't use it, fill in a number. but this is not coding, coding is a set of logic based instructions. this is simply a field where you can enter a formula. that is the same as writing out (Constitution Modifier * level) + Hit dice. it is just referential to values that are in the sheet, but yet again, if you don't like that, a number works just fine.

I think he's mad because I totally removed the class HP from the NPC sheet (which I didn't even realize it :/)

Incoming changes in the next pull added spell macros for PCS added cast time, components, and target/area fields to PC spells removed the used max field in spells to make room for the spell macro button made the NPC special attacks 3 lines instead of 1 added back the npc hp field added temp hp and non lethal damage to npc sheet

FWIW, I'm pretty gosh darned thankful for all the work that has been put into this sheet.

with the incoming changes coming to spells I think the ability to collapse the spells per day section within the spells section would be beneficial, allowing player to get to their spells with less unnecessary scrolling. thoghts?

Kyle S. , I am going to ask you politely, once, to please calm down and keep things polite. People are trying to help. If you need help using the character sheet as it is written please ask. I am quite sure someone can help you. Regarding the HP change Sam has made to the sheet, they are to better enable the variety of ways to calculate hit points automatically. Many people were requesting more variability and without doing what he did there is simply no way in the current design of the character sheet system to do this without making half a dozen fields. Need to use Charisma instead of Constitution? That can now be accommodated. Need to add Toughness? That can be accommodated (add 1*@{level} to the calculation starting at 3 hitdice, prior to that just add +3). Finally, the macro language is not 'code' per se. It may be 'code like' but so is English if you stop to think about it. If you need help using the macro language please ask and I am sure someone will help you. Alternately, you can PM me and I can come give you a hand.

Nibrodooh said: with the incoming changes coming to spells I think the ability to collapse the spells per day section within the spells section would be beneficial, allowing player to get to their spells with less unnecessary scrolling. thoghts? Sure I'll probably be about to put that in before work. @Gauss thanks man

This is a bit of a simple request; Could there be added an "Ammo Weight" field to the weapons fields so that you could easily track the weight of carried ammo? I caught myself in simply not using the "Ammo" field in the weapons at all and writing the ammo under the inventory entries because there weren't any weight field in the weapon entries.

I don't think that's something I'll be putting in.

The weight of ammo typically isn't significant enough to be worth tracking in such detail, especially if it means taking up limited horizontal space. @Spells: Yeah, I can see them looking like crap for the time being. I think I remember requesting exactly what you said years ago, the ability to post a link to a handout or sheet or custom textbox or what have you. I know as a GM it'd be nice to just post a link to let the PC's look at something if they want instead of forcing it in their faces every time one person at the table wants to be reminded.

For my PCs I just tell them to calculate ammo weight occasionally and add it to the misc field. TBEH, the number of coins the players pick up probably matter more than ammunition tracking — unless you're using something a little unusual, like javelins.

LOL, Helmic, don't tell that to my Ranger...he has hundreds of arrows and they weigh quite a lot. Without an extra-dimensional space (such as a Handy Haversack) his meager strength would be insufficient to carry them all without going into medium (if not heavy) encumbrance. :D I just list my ammunition with the bow and modify the weight accordingly.

I'm just trying to visualize that... Twenty arrows per quiver, five quivers per hundred arrows, multiple hundreds of arrows. "You see a ranger walk into the room. He has grey hair, a blue tunic, and 17 quivers of arrows strapped to his back."

They used to store arrows in bundles when not in a quiver. That takes up less space than when 'free' in a quiver. Then you put them in a bag like anything else. But, with a 12 strength his armor alone comes close to maxing out his light load limit. He has an efficient quiver but that only holds 60 arrows (enough for 12 rounds of combat at level 11).

Just get permission for a crafted quiver of abundant ammo...cost is just over 2k GP. tell your GM that you will never EVER but magic arrows in there and you should be fine. (Then totally put magic arrows in there).

Pathfinder Society does not allow custom items and it is really not an issue in my home games. Anyhow, the point was that yes, ammunition can weigh a lot and thus being able to keep track of it on a character sheet is important. :)

Is the fact that max dex isn't changing according to what load you're on (heavy +1, medium +3) a limitation of the sheet or is it a bug?

It's a sheet limitation that I haven't put a work around for yet

Sam , I think Brian has come up with a mathematical calculation that will solve both the ACP problem and the Max Dex problem. Here is his post: <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/925778/minimum-s" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/925778/minimum-s</a>... The only problem I can think of is if someone leaves the ACP or Max Dex at "0" because they are not wearing armor. Perhaps you have a solution for that such as a "Worn" checkmark on the armor. ACP: ((A + B) - |A - B|) / 2 A = Armor + Shield penalty B = Encumbrance penalty Example1: Armor = -3, Shield = -2, Encumbrance = -3. ((-5+-3) - abs(-5-(-3)))/2 = ((-8) - abs(-2))/2 = ((-8) - (2))/2 = (-10)/2 = -5 Example 2: Armor = -1, Shield = -1, Encumbrance = -3. ((-2+-3) - abs(-2-(-3)))/2 = ((-5) - abs(1))/2 = ((-5) - (1))/2 = (-6)/2 = -3 Max Dex: ((A + B) - |A - B|) / 2 A = Armor max dex B = Encumbrance max dex (note: for light load you can put in some ridiculous value such as 100) Example3: Armor = 3, Encumbrance = 1. ((3+1) - abs(3-(1)))/2 = ((4) - abs(2))/2 = ((4) - (2))/2 = (2)/2 = 1 Example4: Armor = 3, Encumbrance = 50. ((3+50) - abs(3-(50)))/2 = ((53) - abs(-47))/2 = ((53) - (47))/2 = (6)/2 = 3

I'm glad there are people who are better at math than me

So do you think it will work? :)

It will work for acp but probably not Max Dex without user input

@ Gauss and Sam... I've been wresting with this issue as well with no good solution (unless I'm missing something it would require Java). I was working with something along the lines of {@{ArmorDexMax},@{ShieldDexMax}}kl1 ... Now - this works in a macro....And I believe I've read that there is a way to make an invisible button that rolls the above ... and then that can be called as %{roll_name}. ... I'm still trying to get this to work at them moment. Now - my thought was setting defaults for ArmorDexMax, EncDexMax, and ShieldDexMax to 50 (a ludicrous number NOT zero). Then when the computations are run it would always pick the lower (correct) modifier. It'd look something like {@{DexMod},@{ArmorDexMax},@{EncDexMax}}kl1 ... No Encumbrance/Armor penalties: {4,50,50}kl1 = 4 Heavy Encumbrance {4,50,1}kl1 = 1 You get the idea... If any of you can get this working before me... let me know. Edit: Believe this path is like chasing the rabbit down the hole... not a good idea and wont work. Been beating my head against it... would be very nice if it did. Everything works - even creating a button with this macro on the character sheet... just can't reference it ... tried &lt;input type="text" name="attr_NAME" title="NAME" value="%{button_name}"&gt; It keeps returning %{button_name} on the char sheets in game. So...

For your "Armor or Shield Max Dex" problem the min formula Brian came up with (link below) should work if the abs() function works in a character sheet. <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/925778/minimum-s" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/925778/minimum-s</a>... Assuming abs() works in a character sheet the next technical hurdle is to NOT include a ArmorDexMax or ShieldDexMax if there is no Armor or Shield or if the max dex for armor or shield is effectively unlimited (Bracers of Armor for example). A checkmark (such as "worn") may be part of the solution.

@ Gauss - I think a checkmark in this instance would require java ... OnChange()...or OnClick()... Unless I'm missing something .. entirely possible as I'm relearning HTML just for these sheets after ... 15-ish years.

Paul , I am not familiar with the code required, I am just basing this off of the current Roll20 macro logic that I am familiar with. But, assuming that the checkmark can be set to add a modifier (such as in the skills section of Sam's pathfinder character sheet) then it can probably be used for 0 or 1 (off/on) logic. With a 0 or 1 we can do 0*something = 0 and 1*something = something. It can enable or disable an entire section of a formula. Then the key would be to create a mathematical formula with several built in off/on switches that are based on the checkmarks. There may be something I am missing that would simplify this or something I am missing that would make this impossible. If you or Sam could explain a bit what a checkmark is able to do then I might be able to come up with a math formula that will do everything we want. Also, will the abs() function work in a character sheet? If it does not then Brian's formula will not work.

I just used a select in the attributes for calculating ac. it has options to call the armor max dex, shield max dex, or the dex modifier. you could include an option for encumbrance... not as nice as having a good way to auto calculate it, but easier than trying to work around the limits of the system at this point. Since I couldn't figure out a way to calculate encumbrance based on your strength score anyway, it just seemed to be the best option to me. sure the player has to select it properly, but it only changes if they change their armor, or shield, and then you can ignore it....

A checkbox in the character sheets is a 0 when not selected, and whatever value you tell it to be when it is selected. I don't even think the checkbox has to be a number... I think it can be anything that would go in a formula, possibly including an attribute, but i havent checked that to see if it works...

What is the formula for HP to use in the character sheets? When I type in "1d6+3" or any variation of that, it just gives me 19. Is it possible to put a monster onto the battle map and have it automatically populate its HP based on the formula in the monster manual?

@james, no it isnt. You would have to set up the monster ahead of time. Also, what formula you need will depend on the character sheet. I cannot imagine how it can be giving you 19 for 1d6+3....

I just tested an attribute as a value for a checkbox and it does work....I wonder what kind of new options this opens up for streamlining a character sheet.....

the built in pathfinder sheet. in the hp formula box type in 1d6+3 and get 19

My guess is that only numbers are being expected and as a result 1d6+3 is becoming 16+3.

are you changing it in the attributes tab? I took a look at the character sheet, and it has a formula for the value in the html... looks like the image on the github page could use an update.... as the character sheet appears to be written, you shouldn't actually be changing that field. you should be putting the hp from each class in at the class information section, but not including the constitution modifier, because the sheet should be calculating that to add to the rest....I really don't know why it is setup the way it is.... I assume (i know thats dangerous) that Sam had a reason for it that made sense to him at least, maybe so he could autocalc some attributes based on multiple class levels. Long post short, dont' use the formula field. just put the hp you get from rolling the hit die in the class hp field, and let the sheet do the work... I could be misunderstanding something though.

@Roger - like the solution. Will likely use a select box instead of checkboxes with values mapped to attributes. Saves all the calculation.. Brilliant. Sometimes simple is best!

Con is auto calculated for HP so you don't have to worry about changing your HP every time it goes up or down. This doesn't matter as much for mooks but it can help for pcs and named npcs

As far as max Dex and encumbrance are concerned there are checkboxes for whether your armor and shield are worn and the values for your current load are 0 for light 1 for medium and 2 fit heavy. currently I can auto calculate acp somewhat by multiplying that value by -3 to get -3 acp for a medium load and -6 acp for a heavy one. I'll need something similar for max Dex but I'm kinda restricted to using the same variables for both.

The sheet is super awesome (I am playing a sci-fi sorta Pathfinder game and despite we using quite some homebrew rules, it is perfectly fitting), and this has not been relevant yet, but in a few levels, they'll be getting Improved Critical. The question whether one can make it register crits lower than twenty has already been asked and answered, but I wondered if there was a way for it to show what the dice was rather than just the result other than mouse overing and searching the formula - It is part laziness, but also partly speeding the game up for the gamers that feels overwhelmed looking at the formula.

Max Dex: Medium load you can multiply by 3. Heavy load you can multiply by 0.5. Unfortunately for Light load the value needs to be effectively unlimited. Perhaps setting it to 0+dexterity mod or perhaps you have a way to represent an infinite value. :)

It's not that easy, both loads have to use the same formula

@Alex the crit box can be used however you want I'm not sure what you are asking

@Sam- Not sure if this has been asked yet but... here goes.. I have 2 questions about the weapons macro's. #1- Possibility of adding a spot for (+'s) on magic items? #2- Possibility of adding @?{Modifier} to attack and damage for things like Bard song/ Bless/ Etc. I have tried to add #2 to the current macro for both, but only asks me for one modifier....

The attack modifier and damage field already take care of enhancements, any more fields would be crowding I don't think people would appreciate a pop-up by default when they click on the weapon macros. Sheets don't take situational modifiers into account because that's just asking for too much. It's really up to players to determine how they want to take those modifiers into account.