I want a subscription but i do not have a Credit card (Sry if repost)

Hey & Hello everyone from roll20! I'm using roll20 for quiet some time now and want to get to support the system we are all using but also i want some of those nice little features. But there is a problem. I dont own a credit card, as a person from Germany this isnt to unusual but after browsing for a while i didn't catch a way to actually give my money away. I dont ask for a specific way like paypal but rather i'm looking for a way i could actually use to purchase a subscription. Besides of buying a Mastercard "Giftcard/Prepaid Card" i did not see a way of doing so. In my city i was not able to get one since no shop seems to really sell them. Of course this would still fall under the idea of a credit card but i wouldnt need to "fully" commit to one. And i gues that is also a issue, i do not want to get through the process of buying a credit card just for the singular purpose of a roll20 subscription but i would be fine with buying one without a long process. But back to the original request. Is there a alternative way to pay for a subscription that i have failed to see ? I understand paypal is certainly not an option, could paysafe cards work, could i just "pay" with a direct transaction, amazon gift cards or some alternative medium used for currency? ... stuff like that?! After swooping the forums the question was usually regarding a specific way to purchase the subscription but i couldnt find any of them beeing a "yes you can". But if i missed it (which iam certain, since this is a much targeted question). I just can emphasise that i'm just looking for a easy or simple way to get it, or just an alterative to the credit card thing! If you have time to read the same purchase question probably a thousend times, i would be glad for it ;-)

I recommend calling your bank (or perhaps visiting their website); some banks have a service where they will give you a prepaid debit card number without the card itself. It's also worth noting that debit cards which are backed by a credit card company can generally be used as though they are a credit card. I pay for Roll20 with my debit card, which is backed by MasterCard. I don't think it's as common in Europe as compared to the US, but it's worth checking on.

Did you know that paypal has a debit card that you can use anywhere a visa creditcard is used? I went to paypal and searched for a debit card which brought up their faq on how to get one. I didn't read it much but thought you and others might want to know.

I would not recommend getting the paypal card, I have had one. It costs a fair deal, some of it was hidden costs and there were a Lot of issues with it, most of all the fact that for half a year it was barely usable at all. The only two other people I know of who has ever had one had the exact same experience. Go another route man, that's my best advice.

*points at Asaram. This is a reason to research anything posted for stuff. I didn't read it so before anyone says "yeah this is what I need", go and research before taking anyone's advice or opinion.

Asaram said: I would not recommend getting the paypal card, I have had one. It costs a fair deal, some of it was hidden costs and there were a Lot of issues with it, most of all the fact that for half a year it was barely usable at all. The only two other people I know of who has ever had one had the exact same experience. Go another route man, that's my best advice. Been using the walmartmoneycard now for 7 years. $3 a month, $3 to load (waived if you deposited from payroll check, monthly fee waived if directed deposit payroll) Sometimes I still get the $3 service charge, but really $3 dollars is barely anything. Of course there are some other fees, like $2 for ATM withdrawal, but why would I need cash when I can use the card? If you really need cash that badly, there is no fee for getting cashback on purchases at walmart.

Michael P. said: Been using the walmartmoneycard now for 7 years. $3 a month, $3 to load (waived if you deposited from payroll check, monthly fee waived if directed deposit payroll) Sometimes I still get the $3 service charge, but really $3 dollars is barely anything. Of course there are some other fees, like $2 for ATM withdrawal, but why would I need cash when I can use the card? If you really need cash that badly, there is no fee for getting cashback on purchases at walmart. The only thing is that people in other countries might not have a walmart to use; Plus you look at the math of using the walmart card, it gets expensive. 3 per month :card fee (may be waived) 5 per month :supporter level ------- 8 per month for a $5 level (so far) 3 per load (if they can't do direct deposit) -------- 11 per month now for a $5 level I don't want to shoot this suggestion down but if a person was going to use it for their monthly they might want to do the math.

Well OP, I don't have a good solution for you at this time I'm afraid. Gifted you some subscription time though, to use while you search, and to get you some way of trying the features out. Enjoy! :)

Wow thank you a lot asaram! Now i can get started right away and can make use of the time! I'm really glad that i dont loose any time in between. Of course ill still continue my search of finding a way to get a sub. In regard of the helpfull advices i got, i sadly cannot buy a local card in any shop here in germany that would be similar or like the walmartmoneycard. But also the additional fees seem very expensive, just for using it as part of a roll20 subscription. I sadly have literally no other use for one and the general fees seems to be unreasonable to me, since these services seem arteficial for the kind of service... This also seems to be similar to the mastarcard/visa card thing i mentioned previously, which i cannot buy in my city, *perhaps in another* . But that would mean paying double + initial cost + i have to find another city in which to buy it... i rather take this as a last resort option. I want to support roll20, not another company that prices the service of paying.. *just rubs me the wrong way* This doesnt mean i dont appretiate the feedback though. Everything helps to find a alternative to getting a subscription Brian said: I recommend calling your bank (or perhaps visiting their website); some banks have a service where they will give you a prepaid debit card number without the card itself. It's also worth noting that debit cards which are backed by a credit card company can generally be used as though they are a credit card. I pay for Roll20 with my debit card, which is backed by MasterCard. I don't think it's as common in Europe as compared to the US, but it's worth checking on. This will be my next step but it may take me a day or two, but ill keep this read updated so it may also help others. I hope its also not conected to additional fees but you never know if you dont ask ;-)

Oh my! A Update of grim problems. Asaram was so nice of actually gifting me a subscription! But in order to use it I'm required to enter the information of a credit card which as a Europien is not a common thing. (I asked a moment ago some of my D&D mates if they actually own one, but out of 12 not a singel one was positive) Also another bumber is that I cannot even gift the subscription back to him without a credit card. Maybe to explain this a little bit more. In order to move or interact in any way in the subscription menue the information of a credit card is required even if funds are addet and in reserve - i did not know that but brings up perhaps a little problem? I do have now basicly money in reserve which "will" be used once i actually have a credit card on which to purchase another sub. Making it kinda dead in the fishtank, at least for the moment. If overlooked or missed something please correct me :-) I dont really need the sub instantly or anything, but this is really a bit more challenging and hard to deal with than I initially belived Haha right on Que! (I did add this as i did edit some spelling mistakes out) ### Quote by Michael P. below ### ---------------------------------------------------- We differ on the definition of the baseline for expensive. Regardless, there is always the option of a yearly sub, or even creating a "monthly pool" through gifting. The paypal card you mention is way more expensive then this. @ Ex-a-Tour Do you find convenience to be a service that should be free? The only other option you have then is to find someone willing to gift you a sub in exchange for a paypal transfer. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Sorry for the backstab edit towards you Micheal P., that was not my intent! ;) It doesnt really matter that much but additional fees i rather avoid and they may add up. I mean I really would not use the card for anything at all just for roll20 but i repeat myself too much... Generally in Germany i can do most the things what the credit card allowes me to do with my EC-Card here for free. I assume that is a possible reason why they are here less prevelent. The barrier of not beeing able to use it occures for the first time to me actually regarding services with roll20. I can still use the EC card casually on other sites as alternate, steam, ebay and so on. But thats is what brings me to the view i have on it. Also the process of getting a Credit Card would take about 1-2 Weeks or more One of the alternative to additional fees and costs and avoiding the wait time are these "rumored" gift / prepaid Visa/Mastercard things that are not sold in my City. The shopkeeper know they exist and i talked a little with them about them but they are very rarely getting sold, one shop had some in stock that were expired and unuseable and he did not intent of buying new ones for his costumers that he never had for them... But they would have a credit card number and all that good stuff that is required to purchase and trade goods with it.

Pat S. said: Michael P. said: Been using the walmartmoneycard now for 7 years. $3 a month, $3 to load (waived if you deposited from payroll check, monthly fee waived if directed deposit payroll) Sometimes I still get the $3 service charge, but really $3 dollars is barely anything. Of course there are some other fees, like $2 for ATM withdrawal, but why would I need cash when I can use the card? If you really need cash that badly, there is no fee for getting cashback on purchases at walmart. The only thing is that people in other countries might not have a walmart to use; Plus you look at the math of using the walmart card, it gets expensive. 3 per month :card fee (may be waived) 5 per month :supporter level ------- 8 per month for a $5 level (so far) 3 per load (if they can't do direct deposit) -------- 11 per month now for a $5 level I don't want to shoot this suggestion down but if a person was going to use it for their monthly they might want to do the math. We differ on the definition of the baseline for expensive. Regardless, there is always the option of a yearly sub, or even creating a "monthly pool" through gifting. The paypal card you mention is way more expensive then this. @ Ex-a-Tour Do you find convenience to be a service that should be free? The only other option you have then is to find someone willing to gift you a sub in exchange for a paypal transfer.

See post above @ Micheal P.

Michael P. said: We differ on the definition of the baseline for expensive. Regardless, there is always the option of a yearly sub, or even creating a "monthly pool" through gifting. The paypal card you mention is way more expensive then this. Yes we do differ on the definition and that is fine. That is why I alway recommend for people to research everything they can and not take everyone at face value. The yearly option is very worth while. I'm just pointing out that the walmart card might not be a viable option to people for various reasons which does include the fees. Paypal might be this way or they might have changed or even other people use their paypal card in a different manner than the way you did and they don't get the fees (including the hidden fees you mention). Again I will say "Research, Research, Research" and do it till you find everything you can.

My apologies for baraging the thread so much in short time. I uploadet a screenshot that will probably explain the mentioned issue a bit better than my words. It may seem that i keep hammering on this a lot but i feel like this is a Problem that may can also occures to other people aswell, or I'm making a very silly mistake. Either way this could help with a solution? <a href="http://s30.postimg.org/4by7ihcr5/Roll20_Sub_Issue.gif" rel="nofollow">http://s30.postimg.org/4by7ihcr5/Roll20_Sub_Issue.gif</a> - that way you can atually see whats written there Questions and feedback will be appretiated

I posted about your problem of not being able to use the donation on the Mentor forums. It shouldn't take long until some dev joins in (probably through a PM). Is it truly so that you don't have Debit cards in Germany? Essentially they are like Credit cards without the abilty to loan money -&gt; no intrest rate and very low other expenses. In Finland they replaced national "Bank Cards" as part of some EU unification and one can get them from any bank.

Ex-a-Tour, please email the Devs via <a href="mailto:team@roll20.net" rel="nofollow">team@roll20.net</a> and they should be able to help you out with using your gifted funds without you having to use a credit card.

Hey, a little update: So far ive now checked about 25 Shops in the Inner citys that could have sold them, with that a 2 big ones (Malls + subshops) They do not sell the prepaid / gift card for VISA/Mastercard or other credit cards wich may would have allowed to skip this process. Regarding debit cards I have not yet an answer to give . Thanks Gauss for that advice to directly contact roll20 staff, i just did this recently and we will see how they can help out, if anything comes up ill share it in this thread. :-) So far i still have not found a useable alternative or way to get to purchase a subscription. But I'm not yet done and will continue my hunt, this is turning into a quest of its own... of anoyanc e But it will be all worth it once i found one, although there seems to be a reason this is such an unexplored territory. The far my experiance is that there "should" be a ways but usually they are so underdog that nobody sells or shares the option to it. Intriguingly the Visa/Mastercard prepaid/gift card thing is a legit alternative to actually getting a Credit Card but they are sold so few and in between that most shops who once owned them either dont sell them anymore or have cards for Amazon / I-Tunes Karstadt / Ebay and so on prepaid cards which cannot be used (Obviously) Sadly said gift cards are not an option as are prepaid cards so the option become slimmer. To those who intent of actually getting a subscription and also dont own a credit card may want to check out certain shops who also sell Lotto stuff, so far they always at least heard or at one point sold the Visa/Mastercard prepaid cards who are useable for the roll20 subscription but i did not have said luck. These prepaid cards are ironicly almost equal to prepaid cards or gift cards just with the option of also beeing useable as creditcards, which seems just logical since mentioned companys are CreditCard distributors. Downside is you have to pay initially 5 € - 10 €, would still be actually better and cheaper than a real credit card... odd :p *edit* fixed grammar

Thanks for the update Ex-a-Tour. We'll wait with baited breath! :)

Man that sucks. I wonder if there are region restrictions on these, I am half tempted to get this poor man a card and send him the number to use so he can start his sub at least.

Haha thanks Micheal, But I'll decline, think that I'm searching for this for a better amount of time for once. That way we can tell if there is actually a legit alternative or not. So i have been talking with my Bank lately Debit-Cards are not a thing here. It took quiet a while since the name is kinda lost in translation. And this is the ironic answer. The debit card IS the Bank Card . ;-)) So when i would make a purchase on in Mall, Shop or online on Ebay or Amazon or even Steam (And so on this could go on forever) it would be called in english a "electronic direct debit", in german its the "Elektronisches Lastschriftverfahren". And that is the absolute standart here. No fees or additional costs when doing such a thing. However the numbers required by roll20 or any other company that needs a credit card are entirely different. The transaction formula is a different one and not compatible with the american one. However to have acess to the europe-market many bigger companys, as Ebay, Valve, Amazon and so on have created a way to provide the same service to europe. Here is a picture of a American debit card <a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-79s70z8_N8w/TkoIsBRAoTI/" rel="nofollow">http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-79s70z8_N8w/TkoIsBRAoTI/</a>... and here is a "German Bank Card". <a href="http://images.gutefrage.net/media/fragen/bilder/mi" rel="nofollow">http://images.gutefrage.net/media/fragen/bilder/mi</a>... As you can see its actually just different numbers and "operation fields" what seems to cause an incompatebility. The Bank & Account-ID also isnt the key requirement to identify the costumer as it would be with a German Debit Card, with a Credit Card it's the card number. So it's basicly a culture development that boomed the debit card in germany over a credit card simply because how the nation "ticks" or generally behaves. To be honest i didn't even know what a credit card makes it different from a bank card. To those who are courious: With the bank card or debit card , I buy item and services I can buy with money i currently have. You can overpay sometimes but there are barriers that "check" if you can actually pay and block a attempt if its not possible to pay aswell there are consequenses for doing so. (They check usually for a minimum amount of money on the Account, if i dont have that required amount i cannot pay. Roll20 Could in fiction check if i have at least 10$ on my account or denie me a service, which would block a invalid transaction if i dont have at least that much) But also there is another diference: the bank card creates a form, in which I would authorise the debit note and / or sign it. The downside is I as the costumer overgo the process of a payment guarentee that a providet network as Visa / Mastercard would do and I can actually return a debit without a reason to my bank. Usually that has some nasty consequences though. Generally it seems to be more trusting. With a Credit card I can still buy a service or item i want to have right now, even if i dont have the money currently on my Bank-Account. It works more as a "promise" of paying which is beeing compensated temporary by a provider and service, as in example visa/mastercard. Also i can pay into "dept" which allowes me to get things when i want them rather than when i can pay for them. This extra is beeing charged extra, but also allowes the very person that is selling the service / item to get payed, by Visa/Mastercard, almost instantly, rather than by the individuual some moments later. This is more streching and allowes for a more fluid move of money but takes the a risk of falling into debt or overrestemating the money I'm spending. Really seems to reflect the idea of sozialism and capitalism. (Please dont barage about politics, iam sry i said words with ism &gt;_&lt;) Lets be friends about this! One Roll20 to rule us, one Roll20 to find each other, one Roll20 to bring us all and bind us in the darkness.... whait wh--? So what seems to be the issue? Well its actually as said before. The way the Costumer gets identyfied has a different format not understood by the payment routine of transaction... The American payment method via Credit Card results in a Company that charges the costumer but payes out the Shop or Provider of a service first. There is a "middle" man in between. The German (And i dont know if I'm now still speaking for the rest of Europe) way is that the costumer prints a debit or signes a contract saying "I will pay for this service X-Amount and get the discribed Service / Item. They are 2 entirely different things. I belive this helps me to figure out the last steps. All i really need are the same "numbers" in the "right fields" so the transaction format is the same as in the Credit card. Which was basicly the entire thing what a "Credit prepaid Card" would have been. From this i actually belive my Bank could allow me to get hand on a Prepaid Credit card directly, which would not bind me to a monthly cost and charges / fees when i use it, but a one time payment. Which is not the best alternative but a way better one than doubling the roll20 subscription cost because of a CreditCard-fee just for beeing german D: (Wouldnt really mind that much, that i would need to pay twice, if it would go towards roll20....) Also a risk is that roll20 gets confused about me paying in € and not $ If I'm right ill soon have a way figured out, if not ill be ashamed and will water my plants. Than continue, again. *edit* mostly addet stuff, grammar mistakes are still present. May god be with us all and atheists find the liquer cabinett.

I got a solution. Yay. So its actually so simple. As i mentioned in a previous post, the Issue is the way the system operates and needs a number that is related to a Credit Card, the security code and the expiration date. And without actually going through the process of purchasing a credit card you cannot go the path of a prepaid card because it stumbles under the very same condition of a regular credit card execpt its more like a electronic wallet or paysafe card, that costs you every month money and needs 2-3 days to get charged with cash that you send towards it. In addition you have to pay for 1 year in advance for a fee. If you cant pay the fee (25€ it was here) you cant use the card. So the real alternative is to actually buy a GIFT-Card for Visa or Mastercard. A gift card operates essentially equal to a prepaid card or a gift card for pretty much any other service BUT you have to pay around 5€ on top of that - thus 100 € gift card costs 105 € - 200 € gift card 205€. So it is really only useable if you dont want to use the credit card anyway but it is than way cheaper than a credit card. You also dont have to make a contract and dont get under certain circumstances additional fees. The downside is that you cannot recharge a Gift-Card. So once its used up the card is useless. But you can very easely order a gift card online and there are almost infinitive ways to pay for it, may that be via bank card, prepaid card, paypal etc. This would be done still online and you have to wait a short period of time but you get a credit card without the contract and that was what i was going for. There are in some Citys also shops that sell these "Credit Card Gift-Cards" which of course allow you than to just pay in bar the amount you want them to have on them + 5€. To me that is exactly what i wanted and solved my problem to get a credit card without getting a credit card. In regards if you can find a way to avoiding the fee entirely, I havent found it. I hope it helps and maybe some of you may can use this to get a subscription for themself too.

Hey Im from Germany as well. If you want a prepaid creditcard try Kalium, I never had problems with them when i used them. If you want I can give you a referal link

Hey, i just took the next best - when there is going to be a issue ill call ;-)

Well im just going over the same trobles too, (Im from germany, too). I ordered the Kalixa card now. It cost 9.95€ intiniallay. And there are only cost for charging the card with other means than direct transfer from the bank. And for going to the ATM. no monthly or yearly fees at all. (Sorry for my bad englisch) But it is really a pain in the butt, I have to order those Card an wait for it. No way to get it directyl as well as Ex-.a-Tour it ist about 14$ In spend for an Credit Card i will only use for roll20. If i'd like to only try the subscriper benefits. it would mean i'd spend 19 in stead of 5 bucks. That ist an immense diffrence. Actually that isn't a sum witch is going to kill me. And i have no trouble doing it for such a great plattform. But i thing not every germen (or European, im not sure) is willing to do that. An alternate way of paying could really open those markets up for u guys. PS: Simon O. could u sent me the reveral link i would like to compare it.

This thread turned into a quest, adventures, quite a saga. It sounds like Ex-a-Tour found a good solution, to purchase Visa or Mastercard Pre-Paid Gift Card online using German Bank Card or other payment methods available. If you pre-pay the amount for 1 year of Roll20, and the fee is only 5 Euros as Ex-a-Tour described, it is not a huge relative mark-up in price. Good advice for Europeans to see this thread!

Alas the most common issue I've seen stated on relation to that is that most folks don't actually have that much in their monthly recreational budget (or don't want to spare that much from it, so paying that much in one go becomes an issue). But, regardless, it is a solution that will, doubtlessly, be of use for quite a lot of people, so thumbs up on that :) Might I recommend that this thread be stickied, or maybe that someone write up a summary, with some helpful links, and sticky it?