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I Need Help/Suggestions: Spell Management

I haven't found any useful advice on how to manage this issue, so I thought I'd just ask. My apologies if this has been covered elsewhere - links would be appreciated. I'm using a character sheet template for Palladium RPG 1st Edition (<a href="https://wiki.roll20.net/Palladium_Fantasy_1E" rel="nofollow">https://wiki.roll20.net/Palladium_Fantasy_1E</a>). Everything works fine, more-or-less. There are a LOT of spells and psionic abilities of different types. To streamline character/NPC creation, I've created additional character sheets each listing all the spell descriptions on the appropriate tabs. From here, I can just copy the info, field by field, as needed. However, some NPCs/monsters might need "all magic levels 1-3". Using the above process is extremely time consuming. As a work-around, I've toyed with swapping out the sheet a particular token points to in order to Universal Chat Macro access the spell list, but this introduces some other issues. How do others GMs manage this problem using a "non-standard" (e.g. 5e) character sheet?
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Edited 1611172329
Kraynic
Pro
Sheet Author
I don't use the the tabs for psionics, spells, wards, etc. at all.&nbsp; Well, sometimes I do for items that people have (scrolls, potions, items that cast spells, etc.) or something like that.&nbsp; Generally, I use a combination of the Chat Menu and Macro Mule tricks out of the Stupid Roll20 Tricks thread (the first post is an index) that is pinned at the top of this forum. I have a "character" that has all the wizard spell macros on the Attributes &amp; Abilities tab. This sheet is editable by all players (so they can use the macros), but not visible, so I am the only one that can see it in the journal.&nbsp; All the macros are written using the @{selected|attribute_name} syntax so that they will pull attributes from the sheet of whoever is calling the ability.&nbsp; This means it will comply with the sheet whisper setting, generate saving throw target number, roll damage based on level, radius, duration, range, etc.&nbsp; Then I have a chat menu of the spells.&nbsp; In the case of wizards, I actually split that up into 3, because there is too much scrolling otherwise.&nbsp; When I have someone playing a wizard, I copy the chat menu from the macro sheet and paste it into an ability on the player character sheet.&nbsp; I change the /w gm to /w Character Name, so that only they see the whispers.&nbsp; Then I edit the chat menu to only contain the spells they can cast. I have the same set up for each element of Warlock, psionics, priest abilities (prayers, curses, etc), wards, circles, and Healer abilities.&nbsp; All it takes is one chat menu for each category of abilities, and it pulls the actual macros off the macro sheets that only I can see.&nbsp; You only have to write the macros once.&nbsp; If you decide to change/houserule something, you only need to change it in one place to change it for the entire game, PC and NPC alike.&nbsp; I also have one of those sheets for poisons, so I can add chat menu buttons to the attack notes for someone using poisons allowing easy access to the roll if the target fails their poison save.&nbsp; I also have a couple sheets with notes for the various skills, so that I can copy paste skill notes from there to a pc or npc sheet.&nbsp; I'm not totally happy with all of them, but at least some of them are helpful (like reminding me how often to roll for falling when climbing). I also have a macro sheet for general macros that I use and another for api commands.&nbsp; Those are both out of date for things that I am doing now, but I'm not going to rework the api and everything to bring it up to date in that game.&nbsp; When I released that sheet publicly, I posted a public game link where people could see how I have things set up.&nbsp; While that game is out of date as far as my handouts go now, the game is still there and the spell macro sheets have been updated.&nbsp; The thread has been locked due to inactivity, but the link in the first post should still be good.&nbsp; <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/discussions_by/1869955" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/discussions_by/1869955</a> The macro sheets have all been made visible to everyone, so you should be able to move them to your game via the Character Vault if you desire.&nbsp; One thing to keep in mind though, is that I have certainly changed some things.&nbsp; I don't allow people to play summoners, so circles are only accessible to my players by way of the Diabolist class (so I can somewhat control how fast people get into summoning and bargaining with demons and such).&nbsp; Circle macros are on the Diabolist sheet.&nbsp; Due to the massive amount of damage they can deal over their duration, I know I reduced the damage output of some things like the agony and pain wards.&nbsp; Psychic Surgery is also on the Healer list, because I really thought they should have it instead of just Mind Mages.&nbsp; I also am using the 15 second melee round instead of the 1 minute melee round, so durations on some things will say melees and others will say minutes.&nbsp; I was trying to sort out things that were more combat focused to be melees, while leaving other things on minutes. Of course, this system evolved over time.&nbsp; When I first started doing something like this, I just picked the things that I thought would be most used, or the ones that I wanted to have all the info printed with a click.&nbsp; That means that most of these macro sheets will have a jumble of miscellaneous abilities at the top followed by everything else in pretty much exactly the order it shows on a list in the book. All of that is to say that you may or may not want to use the macros I use.&nbsp; They do give you a place to start however, and you can use/alter/ignore them as you wish. Edit: I realized I didn't have any characters in the game that were set up to use any of those macro sheets as they currently stand.&nbsp; I transmogged in a couple npcs (Emerald, and a wolfen military priest) and a couple characters I created for people to use in 1 shot games (Talon and Lynn).&nbsp; Tokens are out on the map and everyone should have edit permissions to see how the attributes are set up and be able to roll on the token.&nbsp; Every button that starts with List (ListPsion, ListAir) are manually created chat menus.&nbsp; Any that start with Menu (MenuCombat, MenuSaves) are menus generated by way of the Universal Chat Menu script.
Wow! Lots to unpack...and from the sheet author no less! 1. THANK YOU for creating a Palladium RPG 1e sheet. I built a custom sheets for ACKS (not quite finished) and it was quite a bit of work, and a lot of testing. After waffling on many different game systems to campaign with, I went back to Pally 1st ed because I love the lore and the system is simple for players to learn. I was very glad to find a workable sheet that met my expectations for quality, organization, etc. 2. YES, I noticed that your movement/action calculations are 15-second based, not 1-minute. But in all honesty, that's a change that I think 1e needed so I went with it. Melee-to-minute conversion just seemed the easiest and (so far) I haven't run into any obvious incongruencies with the changes, nor had to go back and make mondo edits to spell descriptions and such. 3. Any chance I could score a copy of your Palladium world map? ;) It's pretty awesome. 4. Class Combat Macros are interesting. I had created Player Race sheets that everyone could review and then set up generic Combat skills for melee, shield, and ranged. I still need a cheat-sheet for modifiers so I pasted in the Merc Fighter HTH list and a generic list of strike, parry, and throw bonuses into the GM description, as well as default weapon attacks on the Character tab. I then copy the sheet and make any mods for the specific NPC, level of WPs and HTH and link to token. The assumption basically is/was that most henchmen NPCs are Merc Fighters and do the players really care? I delete these "temp" NPCs after the encounter. Any other NPC I would need to create a custom sheet. Thoughts? 5. So, I'm correct is interpreting that, to use your Magic Macro implementation, I need to (a) copy/create the Universal Chat Menu macros, then (b) copy/create individual spell macros for each, and (c) copy/edit both sets of macros assigned to each PC/NPC? 6. Finally, for Magic Macros and NPCs, you write in the readme: "They are pulling caster level, spell strength, psion level, ward level, ward strength, circle level, and circle strength from the sheet as needed.&nbsp; This allows me to set those few things, link an enemy spell caster to the correct sheet, and have access to the spell book with the macros putting out the correct range, duration, and effects for that caster." It appears you are linking an NPC token to the appropriate master spell sheet, then inputing relevant stats into the master spell sheet that influence durations and such, correct? Thank, again, for the quick reply to my query.
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Edited 1611181136
Kraynic
Pro
Sheet Author
omonubi said: Wow! Lots to unpack...and from the sheet author no less! 3. Any chance I could score a copy of your Palladium world map? ;) It's pretty awesome. 4. The assumption basically is/was that most henchmen NPCs are Merc Fighters and do the players really care? I delete these "temp" NPCs after the encounter. Any other NPC I would need to create a custom sheet. Thoughts? 5. So, I'm correct is interpreting that, to use your Magic Macro implementation, I need to (a) copy/create the Universal Chat Menu macros, then (b) copy/create individual spell macros for each, and (c) copy/edit both sets of macros assigned to each PC/NPC? 6. Finally, for Magic Macros and NPCs, you write in the readme: "They are pulling caster level, spell strength, psion level, ward level, ward strength, circle level, and circle strength from the sheet as needed.&nbsp; This allows me to set those few things, link an enemy spell caster to the correct sheet, and have access to the spell book with the macros putting out the correct range, duration, and effects for that caster." It appears you are linking an NPC token to the appropriate master spell sheet, then inputing relevant stats into the master spell sheet that influence durations and such, correct? 3.&nbsp; Once I get home, I'll see about digging up the file.&nbsp; That was one of the first maps I created using Wonderdraft and keep thinking about how I really should redo it with assets I happened across later.&nbsp; Not sure when that will happen though! 4.&nbsp; The only other thing I have done sometimes is to make either attacks (in the relevant sections) or ability macros for everything in a specific encounter.&nbsp; Then I just have the tokens represent that encounter sheet to use the macros from it, but have independent hp, ar, and whatever else I want to track.&nbsp; Usually I have hp, ar, and sdc as the token bars, though I sometimes do ISP or casts if I figure that will be more useful than sdc.&nbsp; So I might have an Orc Archer Dagger melee attack, an Orc Archer Shortbow attack, and an Ogre Battleaxe attack on the Ogre Pass encounter sheet (just as an example).&nbsp; If I'm not planning on them having psionics, their resistances may all be the same, make all the saving throws alike.&nbsp; I often will just plan on enemy npc stats being a 3 per die or 4 per die, so there aren't a lot of bonuses flying around to keep track of.&nbsp; Unless I am really customizing an encounter, I usually keep all physical stats the same so they work off the same sheet fine.&nbsp; Or build any necessary bonuses into the attack, parry, damage rolls if I intend to have one enemy have different stat based bonuses than another. 5.&nbsp; (a) Universal Chat Menus is only running roll buttons from the sheet, so those will do any melee or ranged attacks, saving throws, stat checks, skills, and any that get set up for the "on sheet" psioncs, spells, etc.&nbsp; It is totally unnecessary for the spells as I run them, but definitely handy to have for other stuff. (b) Only the chat menu macro that should be the first Ability entry on the macro sheet.&nbsp; For example, the first entry on the Air Warlock Spells, should be titled something like "AirList" (or ListAir, since I changed how I was labeling things over the last 6 months or so), so copy that ability over for a player that is playing an air warlock.&nbsp; (c) Copy only that chat menu over, change the gm in /w gm to the character name, and edit the content of the menu to only the spells they know.&nbsp; If they are just creating a first level character, you can just copy the menu through first level (don't forget to add the ending double curly brackets), and then you only have the first level spells to selectively delete when they make their choices.&nbsp; A first level mind mage would have a similar process, except that they would get the entire level 1 list. A wizard would start with a smattering of level 1 and 2 spells, since their starting list includes things like Globe (or is it sphere) of Daylight that is level 2 for a wizard. A level 1 priest (with a deity that can provide spells) with latent psionics would end up with the priest menu (with all level 1 abilities of either light or dark), then a spell menu that represents what their deity can supply (wizard or one of the warlock lists), and the psionics menu with whatever psionics happen to manifest for them as a latent psion. The thing with the menus is that you can mix and match.&nbsp; I recently fully created some Priest of Set enemy npcs (level 5 and 8) for a game that has been running a couple years now.&nbsp; Set gives access to spell magic levels 1-5 and all fire elemental magic.&nbsp; I copied the wizard 1-3 menu to start, but you can copy in individual buttons from the fire warlock list just fine.&nbsp; Since the button is [Display Name](~Macro Sheet Name|Ability Name), the buttons are totally independent and can be put in any of the lists just fine.&nbsp; Since an individual character's spell knowledge is much smaller than the entire wizard list, I just copy paste things from the higher level menus into a single one for a player/npc.&nbsp; Then their entire list is posted at once to choose from. 6. I use that for npcs that I don't intend to stat out, but might on occasion be called upon to cast a spell.&nbsp; I set the token for that character to represent the Wizard Macro Sheet (which does make the name look weird when rolled), set the caster level and spell strength on the macro sheet, and then can roll absolutely anything off the wizard list, since that sheet has all spells between the 3 menus.&nbsp; I sometimes do similar for priests for remove curse, resurrections, etc.
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Edited 1611184465
Kraynic
Pro
Sheet Author
After posting all that I realized that I also alter the subtitle to whatever fits that character.&nbsp; The first wizard menu subtitle is something along the lines of "Wizard Spells Level 1-3", so that would get changed to something like "Wizard Spell List".&nbsp; I expect that would be pretty obvious with a test run of the menu macro on a new character though. Edit:&nbsp; I am home, so now I can post some other things now that I am at my normal computer.&nbsp; I mentioned making Priest of Set npcs.&nbsp; This is the spell list (ListSpells) from the level 5 version: /w gm &amp;{template:menu} {{color=@{spellcolor}}} {{title=**@{selected|character_name}**}} {{subtitle=Priest Spells}} {{desc=Level 1: [Increase Weight](~Wizard Macros|IncWei), Elemental Magic: [Stench of Hades](~Fire Warlock Macros|Stench) Level 2: [Wisps of Confusion](~Wizard Macros|Wisps) Level 3: Elemental Magic: [Extinguish Fire](~Fire Warlock Macros|ExtFi) Level 4: [Mini-Fireballs](~Fire Warlock Macros|MiniFireball) Level 5: [The Strength of Utgard Loki](~Wizard Macros|Utgard), Elemental Magic: [Blue Flame](~Fire Warlock Macros|BlueFlame)}} And from the level 8 version: /w gm &amp;{template:menu} {{color=@{spellcolor}}} {{title=**@{selected|character_name}**}} {{subtitle=Priest Spells}} {{desc=Level 1: [Cloud of Slumber](~Wizard Macros|CloSlu), [Globe of Daylight](~Fire Warlock Macros|Daylight) Level 2: [Invisibility (self)](~Wizard Macros|Inviself) Level 3: [The Armour of Ithan](~Wizard Macros|TAoI) Level 4: [Diminish Others](~Wizard Macros|DimOth), [Mini-Fireballs](~Fire Warlock Macros|MiniFireball) Level 5: [Screaming Wall of Flame](~Fire Warlock Macros|ScreamWall), [The Strength of Utgard Loki](~Wizard Macros|Utgard) Level 6: [Flame of Life](~Fire Warlock Macros|FlLi) Level 7: [Fire Whip](~Fire Warlock Macros|FireWhip) Level 8: [Burst into Flames](~Fire Warlock Macros|Burst)}} So those entries are pulling from both the Wizard and Fire Warlock macro sheets. (You can sure tell when I decided to do all the spells and condensed my ability naming scheme for the macros.) The final output of them look like this: Since the buttons are calling macros from other sheets, all those macros don't need to be on your PC/NPC sheets, just the menu.&nbsp; Since I have them set up as token action macros, players (or the person running the game) should have a token selected to run the menu anyway, making the macros run.&nbsp; If I click on the Diminish Others button, it calls this macro from the Wizard macros sheet: @{selected|whispertoggle}&amp;{template:spells} {{color=@{selected|spellcolor}}} {{title=**@{selected|character_name}'s**}} {{subtitle=Diminish Others}} {{range=90 ft.}} {{duration=[[@{selected|caster_level}*10]]Melees}} {{spellsave=[[12+@{selected|spell_strength}]]}} {{desc=This spell will affect any living creature except: gods, devils, demons, dragons, elementals, golems, or skeletons (vampires and were-creatures are affected). This spell will reduce any one target/person to six inches in height so long as that person is within the spell caster's line of vision and within range.}} It pulls the caster level and spell strength modifier in to calculate those values in chat: Some macros on the sheet may end up with other buttons in the output.&nbsp; Screaming Wall of Flame has a percentage chance for people to run away if they fail their save.&nbsp; If you scroll all the way down to the bottom of the ability list on the Fire Warlock macros sheet, you will find a D100 roll.&nbsp; That is specifically for a spell like that, so you can roll individually for people that fail their save direct from the spell if you wish. Some of the psionics are set up the same way.&nbsp; The Evil Eye abilities that have a random duration are actually set up with a clickable button that whispers the roll to the GM.&nbsp; If the GM is the one that clicks the button, the player won't know how long their target is paralyzed if you want them to have that suspense in the game.&nbsp; Otherwise, you can have them click it to generate the 2d6 melee duration and they will see the output whispered to you. Chat menus and the api buttons are just too useful...&nbsp; Compared to spell management in the Pathfinder games I am in, I think I prefer the chat menus over populating sheets from the compendium.&nbsp; It is just unlikely that someone would put in the work to have this sort of setup available in a game where a compendium was available.&nbsp; lol
Thanks for the additional info. I think I understand now and will go this route. No chance I can get copies of your spell macro character sheets, can I? Can this even be done?
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Edited 1611188573
Kraynic
Pro
Sheet Author
You have been in the public game.&nbsp; You should be able to import them into your Character Vault, since all players have view and edit permissions in that game. Then just export them into one of your games.&nbsp; Transmogrifier where ever from there.&nbsp; Edit: This is the list of specific ones.&nbsp; Anything else that might be useful you would have to poke around and see if there is anything else you want.&nbsp; I figured you might want to see the list without having to be logged into a game.
Dude, you just saved me a bazillion hours of work. o7 + $$$. Thank you, again!
1611242949
Kraynic
Pro
Sheet Author
That is the main reason I created that public game to begin with.&nbsp; Good luck with your game.
Kryanic, I've been considering the upgrade to 2nd edition. Do you have a public site that I can access and copy down your 2nd edition spell macros?