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Token stacking bug

It looks like token stacking is broken in some cases. I'm in a game right now so I can't do detailed debugging, but it looks like to front and to back aren't working the way we'd expect them to in some cases. I've got players with both a character and a mount for whom the mount keeps appearing on top of the character, even when I to front or to back one or the other of them.
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keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
This relates to vision and control, and the viewer. A year or two ago, Roll20 set it up so that the characters controlled by a player would always be on top, so they would not become lost and unclickable, Make sure the mount does not have sight, and is not expressly controlled by anyone (ex. All Players). It should fix the issue, but keep in mind that the order may appear differently for you and the player. Best to verify with them or test with a  Dummy Account .
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Edited 1613266049
Alex
Pro
I appreciate that, but this is actually not the correct explanation of how the feature works or  when it was introduced. Since I started playing with Roll20 back in 2015, it's true that things you control appear over things you don't control! That's not a "single year ago" thing, that's been true for a very long time. However, when organizing stacking among tokens you do control, normal stacking rules apply. So move to front and move to back will still organize them. I saw a bug pop up for one person last week but not for another, and didn't mention it. It started happening again tonight, for one  character, but not for another in the identical situation. So I'm making my bug report now! In short, stacking tokens with vision was working for one player but not for another. Even for two different people who had control of the same two tokens , stacking would work for one person (me!) but not work for another. In both weeks, there were familiars or mounts that had vision, and characters with vision that shared squares with their buddies. Stacking failed to apply for one combination of tokens and controlling player, but other combinations of tokens and players in control would work as expected. I unfortunately have only had it pop up during games and I'm crunched for time, so I don't actually have the ability to provide debugging information from someone else's computer. =/ But it's definitely a bug. If it pops up again and I'm not busy I'll see if I can get any information.
1613301819
Ziechael
Forum Champion
Sheet Author
API Scripter
Alex said: But it's definitely a bug. If it pops up again and I'm not busy I'll see if I can get any information. You'll want to report it via the help center as the forums are no longer the preferred method for bug reports.
Ziechael said: Alex said: But it's definitely a bug. If it pops up again and I'm not busy I'll see if I can get any information. You'll want to report it via the help center as the forums are no longer the preferred method for bug reports. They aren't? Huh, okay. Thanks!
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keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
Alex said: I appreciate that, but this is actually not the correct explanation of how the feature works or  when it was introduced. Since I started playing with Roll20 back in 2015, it's true that things you control appear over things you don't control! That's not a "single year ago" thing, that's been true for a very long time. However, when organizing stacking among tokens you do control, normal stacking rules apply. So move to front and move to back will still organize them. Here is the latest information I know of regarding token Z-Ordering . This change was introduced  June 18, 2019 , within the "1-2 years" I mentioned. Before that, Z-Ordering was strictly by time of placement or controlled by manual commands. I try to give answers in a timely manner, and do not always have time to depend on things other than (often faulty) memory. If Z-ordering under AFoW is not behaving according to the rules in the first link, then this is a bug and should be reported through a  Help Center Request . I'm not sure how much development muscle might be utilized in that direction, if this is strictly LDL. If you are experiencing it under LDL, then hopefully it will be added to the list of fixes the feature still needs resolved.
Apologies, Keith. Dealing with Roll20 has been a bit... infuriating at times lately. I shouldn't have snapped at you. I've been using Roll20 for a bit now, with tokens and familiars and everything with sight and darkvision and all that, and I'm seeing new, buggy behavior as of last week or so--intermittent enough that it could have snuck in a little while before, but definitely not 2019-era. I've been making all my bug reports by forum, too, and was concerned that a bug report might not be taken seriously. I've gotten a bit tired of having to reopen and redescribe other bug reports every few months. And since I was in the middle of managing a game day, complete with missing players and balky Discord connections, I didn't do a great job at describing my problem. I'd meant to see if anyone else had seen the issue, too, and even that didn't make it in my post. Part of it was apparently confusion on my part, of course. I started using Roll20 in 2015, not far from this update, which looks to have separated out z-ordering by sight . With almost every game I've played in using dynamic lighting and sight, I guess I've just always had the experience that tokens you control appear over tokens that you don't control? It's hard for me to figure out if there were any cases where that didn't  work that way--I don't remember any, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Nobody in my group can remember a time when a token they had control over was hidden by another token, even. But then, I can't even find any to-front or to-back documentation showing up before your work on the z-ordering article in the wiki. Makes it hard to rule out a Mandela Effect. In any event, whatever happened in 2019 passed me by while I was blissfully unaware. I saw zero change in behavior from that update and had no idea it had even happened! Anyway, I'm sorry! You do a ton around here and I didn't mean to be so rude! You certainly don't deserve it. Separately, I've gone and made a Help Center report. We'll see what happens with it.
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keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
No worries. I've got broad shoulders. :) As for the shift to the Help Center from the Forums, that happened about the same time the user base started skyrocketing when Social Distancing started. The user base this year has increased by a number of multiples, I believe I heard during the last Round Table. And because so many of those folks are brand new to Roll20, VTTs or even RPGs, the number of tickets has increased far faster. I have been told some numbers unofficially, but they are overwhelming compared to previous years. The XP team and the dev team have done what they could, but it became very difficult for them to track on the forums with any degree of efficiency. Mods and Forum Champs were asked to start directing folks to Help Center reports, since the system is automated and creates trackable and assignable issues. I know mistakes are still made (there have been lots of discussions), but things are beginning to get better.
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Edited 1613449026
I am seeing this same behavior, Alex. I am also seeing tokens obscured by (under) GM layer objects, even when on the Token layer. Selecting To Front or To Back on any layer, for any object, does nothing in any of my games. This is occurring on a game I have been running since 2017 (Storm King's Thunder module), and a new game I just started with a newly purchased Essentials Kit module.
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keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
That "under the GM layer" experience was also reported by a user in another thread.
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keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
Ah, and that other player was you. :D