Ctrl + L not working (for players) - help?

My understanding is that Ctrl-L has been a GM-only feature from the beginning, although there's a thread in the Suggestions forum requesting that players have access to it as well (for determining line-of-sight when they control multiple tokens):

https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/1345896/slug%7D

(Started 6 years ago, most recent post one month ago, 64 votes.)

Edit: Strange! I wonder, then, whether the player Ctrl-L functionality was implemented at some point and then intentionally disabled, for some reason.

Sarah Rebecca Cohen said:

My understanding is that Ctrl-L has been a GM-only feature from the beginning, although there's a thread in the Suggestions forum requesting that players have access to it as well (for determining line-of-sight when they control multiple tokens):

https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/1345896/slug%7D

(Started 6 years ago, most recent post one month ago, 64 votes.)

My biggest concern is that this being here makes me feel as if I'm missing something [Link] - and when I was an active DM about 2-3 years ago, I was certain my players could too. 

https://wiki.roll20.net/Keyboard_Shortcuts (apparently, this page was last modified on 21 May 2021 - idk when the Line of Sight bit was added)
[Link reads]

• Pressing "Ctrl/Cmd+L":
  • as Player: lets you see the character's "Line of Sight" as player, if you have two or more characters at your possession.
  • As GM: shows the selected token's "line of sight" it would have when Dynamic Lighting is enabled on the current page. Doesn't display player's view exactly! Use either a Dummy Account, or re-join the game as player, to make sure how it looks on the player's side.

...Added my bump to the suggestions thread - good to see I'm not the only one feeling this way

Ctrl-L was never intended to exactly duplicate the player view. Places where it might say this (the wiki is community-maintained) are examples of either careless or uninformed writing. Even devs and other team members have made this mistake occasionally. For example, Ctrl-L has always displayed the GM layer, which is never in the player view. Also, Ctrl-L has always been a GM tool. There would be little point in a player using it, since they automatically have the sight settings of any token they control.

keithcurtis said:

Ctrl-L was never intended to exactly duplicate the player view. Places where it might say this (the wiki is community-maintained) are examples of either careless or uninformed writing. Even devs and other team members have made this mistake occasionally. For example, Ctrl-L has always displayed the GM layer, which is never in the player view. Also, Ctrl-L has always been a GM tool. There would be little point in a player using it, since they automatically have the sight settings of any token they control.

I appreciate the insight - I can just think of so many uses for it, but the most troubling is knowing that this has been asked for over 6 years and we haven't had a fix for it. It's there for GMs, why can't it be there for players. Seems strange that this hasn't been implemented, considering how simple it should be to allow

Question: what would a player use it for? How would you control it to keep it from abuse (seeing around a corner through enemy eyes, for instance?

dudeofpeace said:

 considering how simple it should be to allow

As a programmer, I can imagine many, many ways for that statement to be inaccurate.

That said, I think it would be a great feature, particularly when you've got more than one character you're controlling.

For example - now that I'm preparing to use R20 in person (finally), I have a dummy account that will display on my TV for all the players to see. When the question of line of sight is asked, I should simply be able to Ctrl + L the TV dummy account (which has all 5 PCs) to show line of sight.

We can figure it out, sure - just feels like we shouldn't HAVE to because we have the tools to do so (if they would just allow players the ability to do so)

I've been reading the post that Sarah posted - there are some pretty valid reasons why this should be allowed!

The Aaron said:

As a programmer, I can imagine many, many ways for that statement to be inaccurate.

That said, I think it would be a great feature, particularly when you've got more than one character you're controlling.

I also have a programming background - I understand your point, but does it hold up after 6 years?

keithcurtis said:

Question: what would a player use it for? How would you control it to keep it from abuse (seeing around a corner through enemy eyes, for instance?

The way it works for GMs is that you need to select the token first - Players can only select their own tokens, so no need to worry about players using monsters being an issue.  

Outside of my point above ("I have a dummy account...") there seem to be many instances where people might have control of more then one PC - it'd be a great tool for RP purpose considering how much lighting affects the game

Ah, yes, that would be a good use. I had thought you were asking it to be additive (any token selected) whereas this use would be subtractive (of all the tokens I control, only use this one) 

There are some API scripts that can do what you are asking for, and automatically. I have a token mod command that swaps vision for one of my players between him and his familiar, that could be done more easily with what you are describing. But nothing I can think of at the Plus level. It could be done manually be setting and unsetting positions on the dummy account, but that would be an unrealistic amount of work.

Truth be told - I could have sworn it was possible before. Considering this has been a request for many years, I'm starting to doubt that.

keithcurtis said:

[...] It could be done manually be setting and unsetting positions on the dummy account, but that would be an unrealistic amount of work.

You're telling me! The trouble is I could share the DM screen - but then I'd have to add everything as they come. The strength of the DM layer is having things prepped and ready for when you want to use them. With pre-done modules (using Ghosts of Saltmarsh), it makes setup and playtime amazingly simple.

Observer does what Keith is talking about.  Full disclosure, there seems to be an issue with UDL that I'm trying to track down, but I'm hoping to get it fixed shortly.

dudeofpeace said:

The Aaron said:

As a programmer, I can imagine many, many ways for that statement to be inaccurate.

That said, I think it would be a great feature, particularly when you've got more than one character you're controlling.

I also have a programming background - I understand your point, but does it hold up after 6 years?

There are a LOT of suggestions that have been around for six years, some with loads and loads of votes that are unlikely to ever see implementation.  At one of the recent round tables one of the Roll20 folks made some comment about how changes would be coming to the Suggestions forum soon (Roll20 speak for anywhere between 6 months and never.)  I'm hoping one of the changes they make is to label suggestions that they have no intention of working on in the next year.  People logically assume that because a suggestion has a lot of votes or it has been around for 6 years that it must be something that Roll20 wants to do but they simply lack the resources.  In reality, I imagine a lot of them will never see the light of day and they simply serve to provide false hope to the users that really want them implemented.

-Adam