My player HAS to be cheating.

I have a player who is in a few different games and this is either the luckiest guy on the planet or has some way around the system. Yadda yadda quantum rolling and whatever but throughout every game this man cannot roll under a 16 on the dice, rolling stats for 3 characters, half of all stat rolls are 18s and nothing under 14. Rolling for skills and attacks on a low level character? All rolls are over 20 total for hours. This isn't a one day occurrence either. Months of absolutely great rolling and it's not an input error or a modified code in the roller that I'd see when I mouse over the result. Whenever he gets told to roll for something he always verbally stalls it ("how's everyone doing?" kinda stuff) for about 8-15 seconds before rolling the dice(I know its not a lag issue) and the only time he ever rolls a nat1 (extremely rarely) it's on something that wouldn't matter at all to him or the story. Every time I look for something I always get the same "it's impossible to cheat" in forum responses. Anything helps, please.

It has been quite a while since it has come up, but there are ways to cheat the system.  But, as you are noticing, it takes time.  It takes specific monitoring programs that can intercept the rolls before they get reported back to the vtt.  He isn't cheating by making the rolls whatever he wants, but he is only allowing rolls that he desires to go through.  You can't hold rolls back to create much of a queue either, because there is a time limit on how long they are valid for quantum roll, and it isn't long.  If this is what is happening, then the rolls are being made through the quantum roll system, so it will still show the symbol in chat. If this is actually what is going on, then it is time to have a chat.  If the lure of digital cheating is too much, then maybe that player needs to set up a camera and roll physical dice in a dice tray.  Or stop playing with this person.

His rolling style does sound suspicious. Have you checked the quantum roll icon is there for each of his rolls? If you are suspicious of him, you don't need proof. It's your game, and you can boot him from the game. If you're willing to upgrade to Pro for a month, there might be a way to inspect his roll code, and check server requests are valid - I don't know enough about that but maybe one of the script experts like The Aaron can chime in. Edit: aah that makes sense Kraynic, and would explain the delay.

If you are playing dnd add in a magical trap that the player has to roll low on if he is always rolling high. You can use something as simple as a mirror curse that causes reversal of rolls so it does not feel forced. But I am with GiGs, if I don't trust a player at my table I remove them from the game. You can't have fun if you are worried about a cheater and the other players will suffer from you not being focused on the game. Good luck.

GiGs said: If you're willing to upgrade to Pro for a month, there might be a way to inspect his roll code, and check server requests are valid - I don't know enough about that but maybe one of the script experts like The Aaron can chime in. There isn't a way to look for this in the API as it is entirely happening on the client side.  If the player is hijacking the rolls, Roll20 would need to add protections to the communication protocol to detect and prevent it, which might not be an easy task.

GiGs said: His rolling style does sound suspicious. Have you checked the quantum roll icon is there for each of his rolls? If you are suspicious of him, you don't need proof. It's your game, and you can boot him from the game. If you're willing to upgrade to Pro for a month, there might be a way to inspect his roll code, and check server requests are valid - I don't know enough about that but maybe one of the script experts like The Aaron can chime in. The thing is I don't wanna kick him because we've been planning this for a while and he's a good friend of mine outside of gaming. I don't wanna just accuse him of cheating with no real evidence and cause a fissure in the relationship. For more context, he also uses the Beyond20 extension for DNDBeyond plugging into roll20, though there's no way I know of to make it seem legitimate and choose a number to roll (save for forced critical but its not always a crit). Maybe there's something that allows him to cheat the roll on there before it registers to the VTT?

Update: He rolled a stat macro that had only high numbers in it that did not have the quantum logo. What does that mean?

If he’s rolling using Beyond20 there won’t be a Quantum logo because those rolls aren’t coming from Roll20. It’s possible his character is set up incorrectly on D&D Beyond (intentionally or unintentionally). Do you have access to his online character sheet?

Is there a reason that roll results are transferred from the client? The result still has to go to the server to go to all the other players, right? Why not just have clients make requests, and have the response sent to the game server?

I have been messing around with Beyond20 trying to find a way to consistently get a high d20 roll but all the ways (advantage, roll twice, etc) would all be very obvious as you would see the multiple rolls come through.  Even if he had his character set up incorrectly it should be obvious that the modifiers are too high.  If its only the base dice roll that is consistently high, I'm not sure how he could be doing it.  Even using something like [[1d20r10+modifers]] would show up when you mouse over if he was rerolling anything below a certain value.  I'll look a bit more bit more but do you have any screenshots to share just to make sure nothing sticks out?

As Kraynic mentioned above, it's probably not Beyond20. There's a way to make rolls using Roll20, but to intercept rolls before they get sent to chat - you can see what the roll is, and only allow through those which are high. This takes time, and if the player is doing this, it's why he is stalling - making unrelated chitchat - when he makes rolls.

IMO; if there's cheating... whyyyyyyyyyy?  I know why but, if a person is cheating aren't they missing the point? ;-(  Take it from a self-proclaimed "bad roller", just learn to adapt and enjoy the game and your gaming life will be sooooo much more peaceful. I know nothing about your game, but maybe try shifting focus a little more toward "role playing", where the numbers don't mean as much.  Maybe, just maybe, this person might find some enjoyment outside of a fail OR success pitfall... Just another angle.  Cheers.

And I just checked and found out that Beyond20 will indeed use the Roll20 roller with the Quantum Logo (because it's just sending a message to be processed through the Roll20 chat). I thought I remembered that differently, but I must have been thinking of a script (which for sure will use a green 'API-Generated Roll' rollover box). You will also be able to see whatever modifiers that were added to the roll. (This was a test of two rolls: first with a character's regular +7 to STR saves, then another with a homebrew item that adds +2 to saves. Then I pressed up to see what command was given to the chat to make the roll and mousedover the roll to see that it does use Roll20's quantum rolls.) I guess next time he makes a roll, you could mouseover it and take a screenshot and we could see if there's anything that looks funny, though it sounds like you've done this yourself already. So if he is cheating and you really want to catch him, you'll have to see him while he's rolling - I don't know if you're using any video with your game, but that might give you some  indication. Otherwise you probably just need to have a conversation with him as Kraynic mentioned above.

if the roll isn't being captured and modified before being output to roll20, another way load the dice is to customise the D&Dbeyond attack so check their D&Dbeyond character sheet over for customisations. also turn on your digital dice in Roll20. if there is a hidden advantage applied the dice will still all roll but only output the highest in the chat (i tested it with a 8d20kh1 and had a heap of dice go accross the screen)  if it's a flat modifier thats hidden then you should see it in the customisations or at some point in time you will see an impossible roll. this will also be highlighted by the digital roll not matching the output in chat - example: rolled 18 and applied a fixed mod of 6 for a "roll" of 24 + 1 (fixed mod is hidden - it's not in the standard customisation of the D&Dbeyond attack, but in a [[replace]] function)  

where to look on the beyond sheet for customisations 

Mason T. said: GiGs said: His rolling style does sound suspicious. Have you checked the quantum roll icon is there for each of his rolls? If you are suspicious of him, you don't need proof. It's your game, and you can boot him from the game. If you're willing to upgrade to Pro for a month, there might be a way to inspect his roll code, and check server requests are valid - I don't know enough about that but maybe one of the script experts like The Aaron can chime in. The thing is I don't wanna kick him because we've been planning this for a while and he's a good friend of mine outside of gaming. I don't wanna just accuse him of cheating with no real evidence and cause a fissure in the relationship. Something to consider: there is already a fissure in the relationship. You suspect he is cheating. If you are correct, he is exploiting your friendship. So whatever happens now, the friendship is damaged, and you need to resolve it somehow. If you don't want to directly act him if he is cheating (the best approach), institute a new rule that affects how he rolls, and exploit the relationship to know he won't challenge it: he knows you know he is cheating, but because you're friends he is embarrassed to bring it up. Something like institution a rule that if you ask for a roll, it has to appear in chat within 5 seconds or it doesn't, and you will roll it instead. Or start making all the rolls for all the players - "since its roll20 that's doing the rolls, it doesn't matter who clicks the button." As I say, if he is cheating, he'll know you are doing this to stop him cheating, but won't want to say anything. If he specifically does protest and insists on rolling the way he did before, you know he is pushing the boundaries of your friendship and is willing to put cheating before it. That's a good time to get things out in the open, and recognise he is not being your friend. It's more likely -if he is a friend and just gave in to temptation - he'll just embarrassedly accept it. I repeat though, the best approach is to get it out in the open. If you want to do that, say something like "Your rolls are suspiciously good, are you using some kind of tool to improve them? If so, please stop it." Notice - it's possible to avoid using the word cheating. Just letting him know you know something is up is often enough to curb this kind of behaviour. (Though he might just get less blatant about it, and reserve it for special occasions.) You can say this in private, or when the group is gathered, depending on how you want to approach it. If you think he'll respond to a private chat, and sheepishly admit it and stop doing it after, that's the best approach. If you think he's more likely to respond to peer pressure, and shame, do it when the group is gathered - because if you've noticed it, the rest have too and will be just as irritated as you. Or before saying and doing anything else, you could talk to the rest of the group, and ask if they have noticed this, and what they think about it. Getting their feedback is a good idea - they might be thoroughly irritated and be willing to talk to him about it with you. Moral support is always good. Anyway, some kind of action will be needed sooner or later, and you'll have to let him know you suspect - either telling him directly, or taking steps to curb it.

OP, no matter what happens. I need resolution to this haha.

I discussed it with my other players and they were also very suspicious but unsure of ways it could happen. I had a private talk with him and he swears up and down that he isn't doing anything at least intentionally to manipulate the dice and said he would never cheat on something so simple. I checked the DNDB character sheet and found no such alterations. We went over different procedures to intentionally alter the rolls so I can see why the results were as they appeared. I'm not so well versed in altering commands with long strings of parentheses and brackets and such, but is there something that causes half of the string of stat rolls to appear as quantum and the other half not? This is from a few test rolls we made, all from the same output.  

Mason T , could you show the macro used for the above stat roll examples? And does it somehow see like the last three don't have the symbol, and by who where these rolls made?

Now I'm just totally curious!   How are you getting a roll from DDB for stats to show up in Roll20? When I'm on the Character Builder tab, Beyond20 doesn't show up as an option there. Or is he using a macro inside Roll20? Is it a macro you set up? I'd be curious to see the full macro.

I'm pretty curious too, because I have wanted to cheat to keep my players alive when things just start really going bad for them. Is he tech savvy and does he take a long time to make his rolls?&nbsp; This is how you do what Kraynic was talking about: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0Y5NwNxaAY" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0Y5NwNxaAY</a>

Mason T. said: I checked the DNDB character sheet and found no such alterations. We went over different procedures to intentionally alter the rolls so I can see why the results were as they appeared. The method Kraynic described right at the start of this thread would leave no detectable evidence. It's only visible on the player's own computer.

just testing ability rolls and there was one set that was just laggy, so i turned off my 'net and i can replicate the disapearence of the quantum symbol by interupting my internet connection so the disapearence of the quantum symbol to me is a function of a poor internet connection

So if you have poor internet the rolls will use another (non quantum) RNG. Since we are using a browser i guess we would revert to using its RNG. Is that in Java? My speculation:- Bad internet could be caused by taking up bandwidth with speech, file transfers, other applications etc. (And issues at the Roll20 server end). Seems there are some configuration settings for Java that can be applied that would effect rounding. With this number of dice rounding up could have a significant effect. So its possible his equipment/software affected by his style and some settings may push the rolls to hid RNG which produces different results. If you are/have been running another online game can this adjust the RNG settings? No idea what this specific setup is. Beware that if you test it in isolation you may have better connectivity and use a lot of Roll20 (quantum) rolls but in the game situation the connection may be worse and use the alternative RNG.

Macro for those asking.&nbsp; ./r [[4d6k3]] + [[4d6k3]] + [[4d6k3]] + [[4d6k3]] + [[4d6k3]] + [[4d6k3]]