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Officially Hosted Tournaments w/Prizes?

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Hi! I'm wondering if Roll20 has ever officially hosted any Tournaments with prizes? If not, Do they ever plan to? I think they should. Especially since they take in $ via the Marketplace. Bring in a few new exclusive vtRPGs, sell them as complete packages or Starters w/Modules and optional Extras/Assets, siphon off a % of the sales into a Pool for doling out Cash Prizes and Host Tournaments. Seems like a no-brainer to me... Or does Roll20 have Policies against that sort of thing? Cheers! ~ X
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Paul S.
Sheet Author
API Scripter
Hmmmmm. At first, when I read the title, I instantly scoffed (gotta be honest). Then I thought, "Ya know, this could be interesting." However, as roll20 is system agnostic, it would be difficult. Which system would be chosen? You hint at new exclusive vtRPGs ... are you meaning developing a new rules system for just tournaments? 1-on-1, 2-on-2, teams, Capture-the-flag, King of the Hill? All valid tournament styles. I still go back to the system agnostic part of roll20 and think it would just be difficult. But I do see folks on here advertising for Arena matches and I've known GMs that have fun killing time doing Arena matches. Hmmmmm. Would you be willing to design or point out the game system for these tournaments?
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Paul S. said: Would you be willing to design...the game system for these tournaments? Already on it! I'm crossing my Console, Mobile and PC/MMORPG design over into tRPG as you sit there pondering the possibilities... I'm going to submit a proposal to Roll20 when I have a solid system stacked up and running.
We've helped out a few online conventions previously-- including LUG Con and VirutaCon-- by donating subscriptions or Roll20 exclusive Marketplace content. But as to competitive tournaments... I don't think any of the three of us view roleplaying as competitive, more as storytelling. FUN FACT: in college, Richard once placed in a Halo 2 tournament. It was pretty rad.
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Nolan T. J. said: "...I don't think any of the three of us view roleplaying as competitive, more as storytelling." I might argue that depends entirely on the Genre the game is based in, but since the genre I have in mind is so seriously underdone in the tRPG medium, I can't really deny the truth of that. I'm sure most tRPGers feel just the same way, some fanatically so... I just figure, if you blow who-knows-how-much $ to acquire any game, it would be nice to be able to compete to earn back at least part of what you invested. Not to mention all that time invested in play, all that knowledge gathered and skill developed. And many people - probably less commonly tRPGers, due to the traditionally cooperative play of most tRPGs - incline toward competitiveness by their nature and would be glad to have even just the chance to compete in the spotlight. No matter what they figure their chances of going 'all the way' are... So is that a gentle, public "NO!" then? I bet my vision would blow your mind...
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Gabriel P.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Without taking up the dev teams limited time if you think the idea has enough merit you can always attempt to set up such tournaments on your own. You'll need to solicit some creators for prizes, which without a record of success might be difficult at first. I think we as a community have to do some of the heavy lifting rather than placing all the burden on the dev team when we have ideas outside of the core premiss of roll20.
@Gabriel P. If I set up the Tourneys myself, I would simply offer cash prizes out of my own pocket. I'm not going to actively bother anyone else for prizes. I'm suggesting that Roll20 host Prize Tourneys as a major means of revenue, not as a casual add-on feature. They are the ones who want to make their careers out of Roll20. I'm just trying to partner up with them as a game designer to help them do that... Members of this site pay for the privilege of having direct access to the Devs. It just costs $99.99. I'll shell that out in a heartbeat if I think my design can find a good home here on Roll20. If I don't, I'm not going to "waste" the $100 and I'll seek a Publisher elsewhere.
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Gabriel P.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Well regardless of the method of release I hope you find success with your game developement.
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PaulOoshun
Marketplace Creator
If you develop a game that runs smoothly on Roll20 and set it up ready for a GM and players to jump ln in and start running it, you have yourself a module. The Dev team (really friendly helpful people, I can say this from personal experience) will help you get that content onto the Marketplace. They don't need $100 from you to do that. They will do it with no up front costs, so long as you show them a product they think meets their quality standards. They then take a portion of the sales (very fair %, if you ask me) for distributing it, and the rest goes to you. Take a look at "The Quiet Year" to see how someone set up their own RPG/Storytelling game and brought it to the Marketplace as a module. That would give you a pot of money you could use to host and run a tournament, including offering a subscription, commissioning artists for exclusive content and whathaveyou. I'm sure you immediately grasp the possibilities. You'll also note though, I'm sure, that there are overheads to running a tournament. If I were running a VTT engine as a product I'd be wary of setting up a tournament and spending a good deal of man-hours organising and ensuring it is fair, plus advertising it, with an untested product. My advice, and it is meant as nothing more than a helpful suggestion, is to use your idea to generate a buzz around your game and run tournaments to show the success and viability of your business model before going to someone else (the Roll20 devs, for example). This is for two reasons. One, it means if you do go to them and ask to partner up, you're already a success and you've shown how it can and does work. Roll20/The Orr Group themselves have done just this before going to the big publishers and talking to them about generating official content. It's less risk than going into business with someone who is still getting their proof of concept out there. Two, if you start it up and run some tournaments that are hugely popular, you'll be making money doing it. You might decide at that point to partner with Roll20, but equally, you might see a business opportunity elsewhere. If you're tied to one platform on day 1, sure you get support, but you also lose freedom. Give yourself those opportunities first and then decide. I'm not sure you've mentioned what sort of RPG you're planning, so my advice is just generic, but I think there's some good points in there and I hope you find it helpful. Good luck, and I look forward to seeing your module on Roll20 some day!
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Lithl
Pro
Sheet Author
API Scripter
Paul S. said: Hmmmmm. At first, when I read the title, I instantly scoffed (gotta be honest). Not sure why. Prizes for playing RPGs is commonplace at most of the conventions I've attended. Somtimes it's just cheap swag for participating, but sometimes it's legitimate loot. I was in an Exalted LARP that gave away some very nicely crafted props at the end (in part so they didn't have to lug all of them back home after the 'con, but it was also a cool prize), and I've seen several games give out copies of the source books (I once got a second copy of Mage: the Ascension). One convention I attended even had a D&D 4e dungeon crawl set up as a tournament. Two parties go in, first to capture the MacGuffin at the end wins, and the parties can meet in the middle or not. Winning groups advance to the next day's bracket, with essentially the same setup but a different dungeon.
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Alan H. said: If you develop a game that runs smoothly on Roll20 and set it up ready for a GM and players to jump ln in and start running it, you have yourself a module. The Dev team (really friendly helpful people, I can say this from personal experience) will help you get that content onto the Marketplace. They don't need $100 from you to do that. They will do it with no up front costs, so long as you show them a product they think meets their quality standards. + That was the first thing I looked into. Why hack-and-slash a path when there is a perfectly good gate to walk through? And of course they don't require a fee to add content to the Marketplace. How boneheaded would that move be... They then take a portion of the sales (very fair %, if you ask me) for distributing it, and the rest goes to you. Take a look at "The Quiet Year" to see how someone set up their own RPG/Storytelling game and brought it to the Marketplace as a module. + Hell, since I like Roll20, I plan to renegotiate for just 50% of the revenue from my game if it ends up on here. And 'knighting' as a Roll20 "Sponsor", of course... I have high confidence in my designs and it is to be reflected in my Rev %. I only plan to hold onto at least 2% of even my most epic IP(of which this game will be the earliest manifestation). That would give you a pot of money you could use to host and run a tournament, including offering a subscription, commissioning artists for exclusive content and whathaveyou. I'm sure you immediately grasp the possibilities. You'll also note though, I'm sure, that there are overheads to running a tournament. If I were running a VTT engine as a product I'd be wary of setting up a tournament and spending a good deal of man-hours organising and ensuring it is fair, plus advertising it, with an untested product. + The Business Model is always one of the first things I consider. If I don't think I can make a decent return on my investment of time and Dev funds, then I don't even pursue a design/project. Perhaps that is mercenary, but when your average yearly income is as low as mine has been for the past decade+, you tend to consider the $ side of a possible Dev very carefully. And I've seen a few games rushed into the Mobile market without sufficient Play-testing and have a good idea how ugly things can get. One needs almost flawless Gamplay right from the start, especially in the tRPG market. A little tweaking is fine. A major overhaul [i]after[/i] release would be a major disaster, jading the initial player base and hurting the reputation of the game and its designer before potential players. My advice, and it is meant as nothing more than a helpful suggestion, is to use your idea to generate a buzz around your game and run tournaments to show the success and viability of your business model before going to someone else (the Roll20 devs, for example). This is for two reasons. One, it means if you do go to them and ask to partner up, you're already a success and you've shown how it can and does work. Roll20/The Orr Group themselves have done just this before going to the big publishers and talking to them about generating official content. It's less risk than going into business with someone who is still getting their proof of concept out there. + I am designing first for tRPG, then adapting to vtRPG.. If it works out there, it will obviously work 'in here'. And the attractive quality of proven designs and business models is just common sense. You shouldn't crawl into bed with it until after you are sure of what it is... Two, if you start it up and run some tournaments that are hugely popular, you'll be making money doing it. You might decide at that point to partner with Roll20, but equally, you might see a business opportunity elsewhere. If you're tied to one platform on day 1, sure you get support, but you also lose freedom. Give yourself those opportunities first and then decide. + I guess the hind-sighted "Gee, I wish I had picked that path instead because I could have made 10x more $" is certainly a legitimate point. And since I'm ultimately trying to raise revenue for a new kind of MMORPG(based on this same game design), doing whatever will result in the most revenue, should be my aim. However, I believe in returning faith for faith without regrets, brand loyalty and all that. Roll20 seems like a great medium and a good cause. Better options or not, I would have no qualms about making the vtRPG incarnation of my design an exclusive here. I would just retain the rights to Publish the tRPG version through any other Publisher of my choosing in the future(near or far), with or without Roll20 being entitled to a % of the revenue generated from those sales... I'm not sure you've mentioned what sort of RPG you're planning, so my advice is just generic, but I think there's some good points in there and I hope you find it helpful. Good luck, and I look forward to seeing your module on Roll20 some day! + I purposely have not mentioned the Genre, because I sincerely believe that the first designer to create a great, Tournament-oriented title in it will 'win all the marbles'. I've saved up 10 months of my wages for the Dev of this project(v/tRPG not planned until very recently) and intend to pour the next 12 months of them into it as well. I know I have a big mouth. :O And I'm 'putting my money where it is'! ;($)
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Brian said: Paul S. said: Hmmmmm. At first, when I read the title, I instantly scoffed (gotta be honest). Not sure why. I know, right? Is there an entire subset of casual tRPGers who simply are not aware that certain of the more popular tRPGs tend to have a very hardcore player base which does not stick at competing in organized tournaments for prizes? What makes certain strategic/quick-play tRPGs so different from all of the most popular TCGs out there, many of which have Regional and even World Championships year after year...?