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[D&D5E] SPELL attack type not using my Spell Attack Bonus, instead using INT mod

March 19 (1 year ago)

Edited March 19 (1 year ago)

In my character sheet, I have a weapon that uses SPELL as its attack and damage types, however when rolling hit/damage with this, the modifier is pulling from my INT mod (4) instead of my Spell Attack Bonus (7), making the roll incorrect. Here are images showcasing these:

[My Spell Attack Bonus]

[My weapon] (I put 6 to the bonuses instead of 3 to compensate for the incorrect values used, but this is not ideal)

[The output of rolling them]

If I re-create this weapon via Macros, it also shows that it's using "4[INT]", and not "7[SPELL]" like it should.

March 19 (1 year ago)

Edited March 19 (1 year ago)
Gauss
Forum Champion

Hi, 

D&D 5e's spell damage mechanic does not use Spell Attack Bonus in the damage calculation. 
In the case above, the damage formula should be 1d6 + 4[Int] +3[Mod] (assuming a miscellaneous modifier of 3)

The Spell Attack Bonus is your relevant spellcaster modifier (Intelligence) plus your Proficiency Bonus (PB). PB is not applied to damage.

March 19 (1 year ago)

Edited March 19 (1 year ago)

That is good to know regarding the Damage Calculation.

Although, this occurs in the Attack one as well

Should this utilize the Spell Attack Bonus (7; 4[INT]+3[PB]) while also adding my PB to the weapon itself, since I am also proficient with the weapon?

March 19 (1 year ago)

Hiya, Homebrew rules aside, PB is only added once even if two different factors suggest it should be added:- from PHB Your proficiency bonus can’t be added to a single die roll or other number more than once. For example, if two different rules say you can add your proficiency bonus to a Wisdom saving throw, you nevertheless add the bonus only once when you make the save.


Occasionally, your proficiency bonus might be multiplied or divided (doubled or halved, for example) before you apply it. For example, the rogue’s Expertise feature doubles the proficiency bonus for certain ability checks. If a circumstance suggests that your proficiency bonus applies more than once to the same roll, you still add it only once and multiply or divide it only once.


March 19 (1 year ago)

Edited March 19 (1 year ago)
Gauss
Forum Champion


.█████╗ ██╔══██╗ . said:

That is good to know regarding the Damage Calculation.

Although, this occurs in the Attack one as well

Should this utilize the Spell Attack Bonus (7; 4[INT]+3[PB]) while also adding my PB to the weapon itself, since I am also proficient with the weapon?


It is adding the 7. +4[INT] +3[PROF] is how the template is representing the bonuses. 

It will not add proficiency twice which is what you are effectively asking for. 

Prof and PB are the same thing. 

March 20 (1 year ago)

Edited March 20 (1 year ago)

I desire to ask then, if the SPELL thing only points to the modifier itself, what is the point in using it and not just the actual modifier?

I am not sure I understand the point in using it

March 20 (1 year ago)

Edited March 20 (1 year ago)
Gauss
Forum Champion

Because there are other elements that can be added, elements that are applied to Spell Attack Bonus. For example, a magic item that boosts your Spell Attack Bonus. 

By referencing "Spell" it pulls in all modifiers that apply to spells, without you having to apply multiple modifiers on every custom spell attack and spell damage. 

hmm, I see. So if a pair of gloves gave me +4 on Spell Attack Bonus, it would apply to things using SPELL like above?

March 20 (1 year ago)

Edited March 20 (1 year ago)
Gauss
Forum Champion

Assuming the gloves correctly have that in their mods, yes. A good example of this is Wand of the War Mage. 
It has in the Mods: "Item Type: Adventuring Gear, Spell Attack +1"

That's interesting to know. I might experiment with that a bit to more fully understand it.

So in essence, SPELL doesn't use Proficiency Bonus in Attack/Damage calculations, but instead Spell Casting Modifier (ie INT) + things other than PB that would add onto Spell Attack Bonus?

March 20 (1 year ago)

Edited March 20 (1 year ago)
Gauss
Forum Champion

Spell Attack = Spell Casting Modifier (ie INT) + PB + other mods. 
Spell Attack Bonus is just shorthand for referencing the above calculation.

Spell Damage MAY include Spell Casting Modifier (ie INT) but will almost never include PB unless the spell or a special ability states it does. Spell Damage may or may not include other mods. 

An example of PB applied to spell damage: A Genie Warlock will add their PB to any attack's damage rolls once per round, including spell attack's damage rolls. 

In short, the spell determines what is added. 

So to clarify as well, if an equipped item has a spell bonus in its mods, what would it take for that to automatically apply to an attack that uses SPELL? Would it automatically apply, or would I have to manually add the bonus in the MOD bit after SPELL?

March 20 (1 year ago)

Edited March 20 (1 year ago)
Gauss
Forum Champion

You set the spell to use "SPELL" that should take it into account.

I've tried looking into the info using the SE Sheet (<https://wiki.roll20.net/5ESheet>), but am not quite able to find how to go about this.

How does one go about doing so?

March 20 (1 year ago)
Gauss
Forum Champion

I am sorry, I don't understand your question. 

What info are you talking about? 

March 20 (1 year ago)

Edited March 20 (1 year ago)

About setting the spell/item/etc to use SPELL, so that its bonuses can be applied automatically to rolls that use the SPELL option

I attempted to give an item the mod of "Spell Attack +1", and although it did increase my Spell Attack Bonus to 8, it did not seem to reflect on my weapon that uses SPELL

March 20 (1 year ago)

Edited March 20 (1 year ago)
Gauss
Forum Champion

That is because the 5e by Roll20 character sheet has limitations and quirks. 

If the spell in the Attacks section were linked to a spell in the Spells section it would update. But since it is not you need to finish updating it by manually putting +1 in the mod section for the attack bonus.

This probably rises to the level of a bug, but since Roll20 is working on the next iteration of the D&D 5e sheet they are probably not going to fix the old sheet's bugs. 

Ah, I see. I am glad to at least know this now. Thank you for letting me know.

So, to recap, my setup is not actually bugged, it's just searching for my Spellcasting mod + any Non-PB Spell-Attack Bonuses (which is bugged, but I don't have any so it makes no difference), and PB is never used in Damage rolls unless stated otherwise or homebrewed in?