isometric grid

Rob said:

i have done another iso map and have put two tokens on it

https://app.roll20.net/join/565459/3Tw1fg

Here is the link , it has no grid but i put a grid on the map picture

Rob

Rob said:

i have done another iso map and have put two tokens on it

https://app.roll20.net/join/565459/3Tw1fg

Here is the link , it has no grid but i put a grid on the map picture

Rob

Rob said:

I don't think I can make the tokens moveable by all players , if that is possible I don't know how

• Isometric Dungeon
• Isometric Sewer

While I would prefer isometric, and added a vote to this thread, if it's easier I would actually be almost as happy with being able to rotate the grid 45 degrees and have axonometric. You still have a 90 degree, right angle grid, it's just a rotated axis. You can see the difference in the image below. Axonometric is what Ultima Online uses so I included a screen cap so you can see what it would look like in practice.

Isometric seems like a simple ask - a flattened grid, really - maybe the calculations on token auto-sizing are the problem, and in that case it's different than others because the "vertical" dimension would be twice the "horizontal" dimension. Even in the map, tokens snap automatically to grid size (center for hex, edges for square) so figuring out the snap and auto-grid-size will be components of an isometric view. Axonometric would be cake in this regard. 

So, the token calculations would change: things would still snap, but default would probably be 2x1 height-to-width (tokens would auto-size to "twice" height) and tokens would snap at the "bottom" "center" edge, instead of center (hex) or top-left (square) which would be a different experience for sure. 

Lighting will still be an issue, since light will not follow an isometric path but will instead be top-down, and I'm not sure how that will look. 

All that said, I'd like to see that mode to see what it would look like. I'll save my wish for an isometric hex view for another time after we get isometric... 

After exploring an iteration of this, I'd have to say that auras and light sources would need to be "flattened" as well... the same aspect ratio ... for them to show up "properly" in the render. Not to mention advanced fog-of-war. So, not as simple as another "flat" stacking ratio (hex versus square - triangles for instance would probably be easier than isometric). The moment we fiddle with the aspect ratio of the grid, the rest of the aspect ratios need to follow suit (token, lights, auras). 

Edited to add: Not to mention stacking order. The usual foreground-background only works for so much on isometric where the stacking order is actually determined by the "row" one occupies (higher rows are ALWAYS hidden by lower rows, vertically, top-to-bottom, measured from the "base" of the token, so flying tokens etc. etc.). Including backgrounds!

So while it might seem easy to do on its face, it includes a bunch of tweaks and hiccups that encompass a lot of how the engine works that would have to be changed. 

In the meantime, it would be cool to get hex based fog of war... 

The last year has been a really exciting time for Isometric play in virtual table tops.  Several patreon artists as well as communities of avid gamers around them have pushed the boundaries on what DMs can prep quickly by creating reusable modular tile sets in true isometric.  What were only a small number of roll20 marketplace creators and stray youtube tutorials is now a healthy and growing set of game masters that really do prefer to play in an art style that more resembles the isometric play of their favorite late 90s and early 2000's rpg video games.  You can actually see the monsters! Vertical space makes more sense! And for many, the game and art prep is just more fun. 

The challenge is that many games like D&D5e and Pathfinder benefit greatly from the measure tool support and snap to grid support of Roll20.  The only real workaround for lack of isometric grid right now is to play gridless, which takes away from the precision many tactical players enjoy in the system when playing top down with the grid turned on.

Implementing an isometric grid would mean: 

• creating the grid, it isn't any more complicated than a hex grid to code
• dynamically adjusting the z-level of tokens so that tokens higher on the screen (y dimension) are occluded by tokens lower on the screen
• not automatically snapping token art by their exact center.  Isometric tokens often anchor measurements and snap to a point in the center of their base, not the absolute center of their png image

There are bunch of quality of life things after that that really are not as important.

The other roadmaps and highly voted features are quality of life improvements, stability improvements, for existing systems. They aren't net new functionality.  I'm super impressed at the dedication of the Roll20 dev team to keeping this platform up and running and running smoother ever year.  Maintaining a modern web app is a huge amount of work.  However, for those that have been here a long time (I've been using Roll20 since the kickstarter) new features that promote creative play are important.

I play D&D to scratch that creative itch.  When I play in person, I paint minis and draw maps by hand.  The equivalent of that for me in virtual play is taking pride in the map art I make.  Isometric play in a VTT will greatly extend that for me, and I suspect extend interest in a VTT for the community of players that do Isometric.  It's always good for a platform to have a few differentiating features from other options.

Thanks for listening to my rant.  If you want to see how users use isometric in roll20 now, search Youtube for "Isometric Roll20" and you'll find videos by me and others.

For the record, as other tools add native support for isometric, I would love to see Roll20 add isometric support if nothing else to help provide the largest possible market for content creators and help them get a return on investment when making isometric art packs and not just going with top-down assets. 

I would be _very_ happy to talk to anyone at Roll20 about the isometric scene for virtual tabletop rpgs.  It's bigger than just D&D and pathfinder.  It exists mostly in discord.  The below two screen grabs are from Rol20, but running gridless.  It looks pretty and plays poorly due to a lack of grid support.  All my best -- Azathought

I have been using isometric maps for the past few months, and it is working pretty well for my group. I use the hex grid (transparently hidden) with my maps, and I align the hexes with the diamonds/squares. It works pretty well for measurements, and of course helps to automatically align tokens with the grid.

Here I am showing the hex grid, so you can see how I lined up the squares to hexes:

The hex trick! Great stuff Dave S., I always had trouble with the tokens snapping and being centered incorrectly, have you gotten past this somehow in Roll20?

The token snap to their center, which isn't perfect but we have it working well enough. Part of the trick is scaling the token down just a little, so that it fits inside the iso-square. Below you can see how they are snapped to the center of the square. And of course I have the hexes invisible now. So the base circles are not centered, but the overall token image is, and that was the best compromise I could come up with.

i have been trying to make Alex Drummond's epic isometric content work with Roll20 ever since i got on both bandwagons almost a year ago. This thread has been immensely helpful in my efforts. Thank you Dave, and Azathought, for providing me with something to strive for.

Dominic, glad I could provide help for others experiencing the same challenges.

Today, we released this feature as part of the Page Settings and available in early access to all Pro users.

Detailed instructions for Isometric grid and Dimetric grid on the Help Center.