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Operation 'Burning Muzzle'

Lets sort this out
There are two main options. 1. Run away and borrow money from Gran who apparently stashed something away somewhere. Try and bootstrap a new adventuring career with the bonus of having slightly more hitpoints and abilities to start with. 2. Get our stuff back or die trying. When we all die we get to roll up new characters and they start with some equipment right? So even in the less optimal "die trying" case we are just as well off as option 1. But that's ever so slightly meta :) Petros wants to get the stuff back. While dying isn't something he really wants to experience just now running away home and trying to restart his loan sharking business might actually be a worse option. There may have been some slight exaggerations in some of his letters home too... Since we can't overpower dozens of armed (or unarmed for that matter) gnolls and some ogres, making it not worth their while to keep the stuff seems the remaining solution. Burning their entire village down building by building seems to be the simplest option of making it not worthwhile. So Petros wants to tell them to return our stuff to the cabin they captured us in or else our powerful magics will keep burning down their stuff. Of course the details of that are the issue... The criteria Petros has are: 1. A non zero chance of Petros (and his crew of course) surviving. 2. Get the message of where to return the stuff to the gnolls. 3. Demonstrate that yes we really are this damn crazy. Setting the huge building the boss lives in seems a good option. So the outline of Petros' current thoughts, with some rather large problems like how to get fire. 1. Petros runs to and scales the wall when the guards turn the corners heading north. Peeks over to see if there's bad guys on the other side rather than empty space. 2. Assuming the coast is clear spread some oil on the corner wood and thatch. 3. Climb up on the roof again. 4. Yell the message down the chimney. 5. Run to the oil soaked corner and set it ablaze. 6. Climb back over the wall, and as soon as Petros gets back on the ground the darkness spell gets cast putting that corner of the building into magical flaming darkness. 7. Everyone runs and hides. How to set the fire is the tricky part of course. We could hope there's a convenient source in the camp. But I'm hoping someone has a bright idea. An alternative might be for Petros to tie off the rope on the outside of the wall, climb over, tie the rope off again on the inside and keep hold of the free end - if it was a 50 ft rope there's going to be about 25-30 feet left. That might let a darkness spell be cast and Petros still be able to get up and over the wall - since he has the rope to guide him to the right spot in the wall and to make blind climbing possible (no feed for hand holds - batman style walk up the wall). Still not sure how to start the darn fire though. If the darkness spell works like the light spell - so that the darkness spreads like light (and this is blocked by things that make a shadow). Then if we cast it on a rock that can be put in a pocket we have a portable turn offable darkness source, that might make getting fire easier from inside the camp - and if that is possible and we all survive there might be some opportunity for a cleric/thief team crime wave. It might even make stealing our stuff an actual option Well that's far to long with no actual working plan - no wonder this wasn't so great off the cuff... Someone else must have a better plan!
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Gran has a plan. She is fed up with putting her fate into the hands of others and all this skulking around and shouting threats at gnolls. It might not be a wise plan, but it is a plan. The next morning, she plans to walk up to the gate and challenge the gnoll Chief to one to one combat, with their gear as the prize. She will lay on her usual charm, filling the challenge with references to the racial inferiority of gnolls, how cheap mongrel thieves hide behind overwhelming numbers to steal the belongings of others, how the chief's mother clearly slept with various types of dogs, and how cowardly and weak must a cur such as he be to not step out and face her directly. She will demand that he return her gear for the fight, or strip his own off. Otherwise he would be a coward, too scared to face her on an even field. Further insults as to his inability to satisfy his sisters in whatever passes for a bed to them will follow. If Gran gets to fight him and wins, great. If she gets to fight him and loses, or gets killed before even seeing him (both are likely)... Well, as you say in point number 2 above Sam. If she fails, Silas will be going over the wall in an effort to sneak in and get his spell book back. He loves that spell book. Speaking as a player, gear is such a huge part of character development in this version of D&D it feels a bit depressing to carry on playing Gran without getting it back. I would rather her die trying to get it as well and just reroll. So, yeah, see the plan above.
Gran's plan is fine with Petros. It'll be sad to lose such a valued follower - you're all just following Petros right? (don't burst his bubble, he's not long for this world) - but a distraction is a distraction and who knows maybe these gnolls who stake dead bodies in the open and whose clerics apparently have pet ghouls will turn out to be honorable warriors and soon to be followers of whomever that architect Gran keeps rambling about it :)
I see them as Lawful Evil... They certainly run a tight military organisation and know how to lock down a village tightly. They also maintain a truce with Threshold apparently, which suggests they keep their word once given. Lawful, in this case, has little to do with who they stake where or what pets they prefer. We could only wish that they had more chaotic tendencies tbh... Our stuff would be far easier to get back if they had. I think part of it is that I don't want to spend the next 10 sessions watching others burn down buildings. Let's get this sorted one way or another and move on.
I like Gran's plan but I will say that's how Quinn went down 'dam horse man!' and i'm a big Gran fan :S I'd rather try do the fire plan i think we can get Petros over the wall and we could even start the fire, darkness the fire, then you yell the message they still can see the fire and you get to start the running right away.
I'm for any plan which doesn't involve almost everyone staring at a black screen all session. There's the taking metagaming to the extreme plan of: 1. Pick the character (if any) you like, they all head back to town to try and find some down on their luck adventurers to go on a quest with them for some powerful items that are apparently in a "small" Gnoll camp nearby. We need at least one preferably at least three so if they roll a encounter on the way they can run in three different directions and someone makes it to town... 2. The rest of the characters launch a frontal assault on the Gnolls. 3. Everyone roll at least a 9 for Intelligence and pick "Magic User" for their new character due to step 2. Someone get invisibility - we start level 3, right? Do we get a random level 2 spell? A choice? 4. Amazingly when the characters from step 1 arrive back in town there's a group of mages who think that's would be a great quest to set out on. 5. Cross our fingers that none of the Gnolls worked out how to use the "see invisible" sword they are rumored to have in their treasure pile. Man I love plans with numbered steps! For the burning buildings plan, I think we can just hand wave/dice it. Though that'd be up to Joe of course. I've seen the layout so it'd be a matter of "we do all these things". If it works via DM declaration or some successful die rolls or fails via DM declaration or some unsuccessful die rolls then we are done with no need for black screen staring. Either a building is on fire in darkness or Petros is dead or Petros is running towards the hidden party chased by a couple of dozen Gnolls and we are all dead...
I generally try to resist the temptation of interjecting in player discussions, but there are a couple of things that trouble me slightly about the wider game that I feel I ought to raise. I also like numbered lists, so: 1. I know some of the suggestions are only half-serious, but the whole " it's worth a try, because if we die we can just roll up a new character and be in much the same situation as we were before " attitude is a direction I really want to head off. Life is undoubtedly cheap in this game. Cheaper than I ever thought it would be. A big part of the reason for this is the Old School rules and the Old School modules. But life is supposed to matter. Escaping by the skin of you teeth and living to fight another day should be seen as a real victory, just as an avoidable death should be seen as something of a failure. There's something wrong with the game if death is no longer seen as a major penalty. I'm not sure exactly what to do about this. There are all kinds of house rules I could introduce to reduce the number of deaths. Or we could move to a less deadly ruleset. But part of the original attraction of this game was the chance to pit ourselves against the classic modules with the classic rules and see if we could "beat" them with a little bit of luck and a lot of clever play. As a temporary solution, until we come up with a better option we all agree on, I'm going to say that all new characters start at level 1. That should provide at least something of an incentive to keep characters alive, particularly when they get to level 3+. 2. " Speaking as a player, gear is such a huge part of character development in this version of D&D ". Actually, I disagree with this from one perspective. On the one hand, yes you're right ... that extra couple of points of AC can make all the difference. But, on the other hand, these Old School Modules are absolutely chock-full of magic items. In the space of three low level adventures, you accumulated more magic items than you could sensibly keep track of. Personally, I think you're making too big a deal of your equipment. Sure, you'll be bit weaker in the short term without it, but there will be plenty of opportunities to acquire new (and better) items in the future. 3. I would say Gran's analysis of the culture of these gnolls in the post above is pretty much spot on. 4. Re; the challenge fight option ... I like the fresh thinking. However, do consider why this would be an attractive proposition for the gnolls. If the gnolls win, they are in pretty much the same situation as they were before. If they lose, they've lost their chief and a load of their precious treasure (remember, they will now see the loot as rightfully theirs, in the same way that you did when you liberated it from it's previous owner). In other words, the gnolls have little to gain and everything to lose by fighting Gran. 5. " Run away and borrow money from Gran who apparently stashed something away somewhere. Try and bootstrap a new adventuring career with the bonus of having slightly more hitpoints and abilities to start with ". I'm a bit surprised (and, if I'm honest, disappointed) this has been so readily discounted. For me, that's the true Old School way of doing it. Accept when the odds are stacked against you and live to fight another day. Another story for Petros to tell his grandchildren, rather than another underdeveloped character in the Graveyard topic. Sorry for butting-in, but I really felt some of that had to said for the wider good of the game. At the end of the day, as always, the decision rests with Petros, Gran and co. Carry on!
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"4. Re; the challenge fight option ... I like the fresh thinking. However, do consider why this would be an attractive proposition for the gnolls. If the gnolls win, they are in pretty much the same situation as they were before. If they lose, they've lost their chief and a load of their precious treasure (remember, they will now see the loot as rightfully theirs, in the same way that you did when you liberated it from it's previous owner). In other words, the gnolls have little to gain and everything to lose by fighting Gran." Very true, from a coldly logical perspective. Gran wasn't looking to pick a fight on that basis though. The approach was kind of based on Lawful Evil type rulers being (tyrants, often those that rule by strength) are unusually arrogant and prideful as a type, and also the idea that needing to maintain a position of confidence and strength to keep the respect of their followers is often essential in martial cultures. It was also an approach based on insults and offence to cause rage in the Chief. To get him angry enough that his logical brain gets cloudy. What did the chief have to gain, potentially, by fighting Gran? The respect and position of 'alpha' among his warrior followers really. How could it look like anything but cowardice to not fight a dwarf calling you out in front of everyone? How could a coward rule such a society? Plus, Gran would have promised that, if he accepted, the arson attacks would have stopped.
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Joe C. said: 2. " Speaking as a player, gear is such a huge part of character development in this version of D&D ". Actually, I disagree with this from one perspective. On the one hand, yes you're right ... that extra couple of points of AC can make all the difference. But, on the other hand, these Old School Modules are absolutely chock-full of magic items. In the space of three low level adventures, you accumulated more magic items than you could sensibly keep track of. Personally, I think you're making too big a deal of your equipment. Sure, you'll be bit weaker in the short term without it, but there will be plenty of opportunities to acquire new (and better) items in the future. It's actually a bit deeper than that for me though Joe... The reason gear is important isn't even because of the stats, really. It's important to me because of the sense of accomplishment earning it brings, especially when surviving through old school modules with their high death rates. The gear is a badge of honour, and big part of the measure of a character's rising place in the world at large. Stuff like Gran's mace came from the Palace of the Silver Princess and when I looked at her sheet remembering that made me smile, because I enjoyed it. Getting it stripped so brutally can feel, in the short term, a bit like being punished for being successful. If that makes sense? I do get that the clear message here though is that the items and loot have probably been removed for game balance issues, which, ok, I can go with. In the short term though I think it's too be expected that the players would try everything possible to get it back. We wouldn't be adventurers if we just gave up when things got a bit tough ;) So, yeah, ok. I guess Gran is heading back to Kelvin to buy some n00b gear! Anyone else coming? Trust me though, when we get some gear back, Gran is coming back and burning this village to the ground.
Joe C. said: Another story for Petros to tell his grandchildren, rather than another underdeveloped character in the Graveyard topic. I resent the implication that Petros is an underdeveloped character..Almost as much as the idea that he would tell a story in which he wasn't the heroic victorious leader* to his grandchildren. I'm joking of course as I was about suiciding to make new characters, I'll stop on those since I see your point about that. * He did lead a band of adventurers in slaying a Naga. And save the Silver Princess almost single handedly. And destroy a den of smugglers and conquer a haunted house. Not to mention fighting off the goblin hordes and wiping out three tribes worth of them. And slaying an evil wizard with a single bow shot. At least if you listen to him tell it anyway. "Trust me though, when we get some gear back, Gran is coming back and burning this village to the ground." - we've already started on that last bit...
Sam H. said: "Trust me though, when we get some gear back, Gran is coming back and burning this village to the ground." - we've already started on that last bit... lol, true. But when she returns it will be with trebuchet, steel, and the divine fire of the heavens. Then I will turn them on the Church of Karameikos for being such a feeble enabler of evil and a collaborater against the civilised people of Mystara. ;)
I personally don't think of my players as indispensable and don't want anyone to die. I always plan way too far ahead for my characters what dream magic items they'll find even what 6th lvl spells I was going to take :) I even have a PDF for the 'Deaths Door' D&D spell I altered for this rule set that I was hoping to research for Zan'Zu (rest his invisible soul) after this adventurer it even had how he would go about researching lore value. I make back stories for each of my players even if they don't away come through when i play XD The reason I'm so hung up on getting the gear (or getting some new gear) is threefold: Firstly from meter-game standpoint where we are in the module leaves me fearful to move on without it. We were frankly decimated by the 2nd band of Gnolls we only killed one of them out of the 10 I believe, and that was with the gear... dropping over 25% AC and upward of 2+ on the AB on some people makes me worried to press on . That mage's underlings were no joke before the Minotaur and Drack killing several of us each and we are less powerful now than we were then... Secondly Our spell books. without them our magic-users are more useless than a lvl 1 fighter and we don't have the money for new spells so they are going to be that way for a while... Finally rollplay wise it feels like we would be cutting our loses and going after another easyer adventure pressing on in to the mountains after such a crippling loss would seem insane! But as a player i'm rather invested in seeing this how this adventure ends especially after all the working that has gone in to it from everyone. I also don't think its unfair we lost our gear were lucky it wasn't just a TPK it was great fun escaping and we are lucky so many of us did. At least to me this camp felt like a puzzle to be cracked beating people with no armour or weapons
I like Gran's plan the best. Seems like a do or die situation. That camp has too many eyes to find a sneaky theif. Would be nice if we had invisibility or spell that would aid us.
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Vesavius said: I do get that the clear message here though is that the items and loot have probably been removed for game balance issues ... No, no, no! Absolutely not. I wouldn't do that. If you can get your magic items back I would be delighted for you to have them. Edward was much closer to the mark. The party was, for the first time, utterly defeated by the gnolls. A TPK was the most likely outcome. But that's not a lot of fun. Capture and loss of equipment seemed a fair compromise. Vesavius said: Gran wasn't looking to pick a fight on that basis though. The approach was kind of based on Lawful Evil type rulers being (tyrants, often those that rule by strength) are unusually arrogant and prideful as a type, and also the idea that needing to maintain a position of confidence and strength to keep the respect of their followers is often essential in martial cultures. It was also an approach based on insults and offence to cause rage in the Chief. To get him angry enough that his logical brain gets cloudy. What did the chief have to gain, potentially, by fighting Gran? The respect and position of 'alpha' among his warrior followers really. How could it look like anything but cowardice to not fight a dwarf calling you out in front of everyone? How could a coward rule such a society? Fair enough, that's well reasoned. It's still an ultra high risk strategy though, as it would rely on the surviving 100+ gnolls upholding their side of the bargain in the event of a Gran victory. There might be a queue of of would-be alphas wanting to fight Gran in order to fill the ensuing power vacuum :-). Sam H. said: I resent the implication that Petros is an underdeveloped character..Almost as much as the idea that he would tell a story in which he wasn't the heroic victorious leader* to his grandchildren. Yeah, I didn't mean Petros ... I was referring to some of the other 22 (seriously, that's the number, from this module alone) characters that have slipped their mortal coil. With regard to Edwards' points: 1. The adventure (or so it states) is aimed at "5-8 characters of level 2-4". So really, there should be no insurmountable obstacles for careful and/or clever players. 2. I will allow MUs to purchase replacement spell books. I'll have to work out the details (cost, what spells the new books might contain, etc.), but an MU without a spell book doesn't make any sense.
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Joe C. said: Vesavius said: I do get that the clear message here though is that the items and loot have probably been removed for game balance issues ... The party was, for the first time, utterly defeated by the gnolls Well... Some of the party was, the others were incapacitated still from the previous encounter :p Vesavius said: What did the chief have to gain, potentially, by fighting Gran? The respect and position of 'alpha' among his warrior followers really. How could it look like anything but cowardice to not fight a dwarf calling you out in front of everyone? How could a coward rule such a society? Fair enough, that's well reasoned. It's still an ultra high risk strategy though, as it would rely on the surviving 100+ gnolls upholding their side of the bargain in the event of a Gran victory. There might be a queue of of would-be alphas wanting to fight Gran in order to fill the ensuing power vacuum. She would have bowed to the next challenger, recognised his right to rule through his obviously fine breeding, complimented him on the sheen of his fur and admirable posture, admitted how she wouldn't dare fight such as he, and gotten to fuck outta Dodge. I wouldn't have suspected that any would be challenger would weaken himself fighting the person that had put down the previous chief when he was going to have to fight other would be kings and that person had no further interest in the tribe. If anything, would be chiefs might have even supported her challenge... I am sure there were a few that had been eyeing that throne for a good while and would see the chief removed. It's kinda how LE types are. Think Thunderdome... 1. The adventure (or so it states) is aimed at "5-8 characters of level 2-4". So really, there should be no insurmountable obstacles for careful and/or clever players. 2. I will allow MUs to purchase replacement spell books. I'll have to work out the details (cost, what spells the new books might contain, etc.), but an MU without a spell book doesn't make any sense. 1. Yeah, well what the adventure states and what is a realistic expectation is, as we have learned, sometimes a yawning chasm. We have usually progressed by zerging these adventures in all honesty. If we had taken just one group into any of them with we would never see the end of any of them. 22 dead, in one adventure... Halfway through. That alone speaks volumes to how surmountable the difficulty is mortality wise. I honestly do not mind the mortality rate, I am fully prepared for Gran to buy the farm at any point, so I am not at all whinging about deaths, but I am not sure how many of those were down to us not being clever or careful... They mostly came down to bad luck with open dice rolls. I even enjoy the open die rolls though. I just don't think it usually comes down to being smart or not. I actually do get Ed's point about the balance from here on in... If we are truly starting new characters at level one once our current ones die, which is all the more likely now we have had our stuff taken, then that graveyard is going to be 100+ strong by the end of this. Level 1s with Level 1 gear will TPK pretty much every encounter. 2. Can we assume the MUs have lost their travelling spellbooks and have their mainstays stashed safely? It is actually something | usually do in other campaigns when playing one, due to their intrinsic value, but never had the chance to do with Silas due to how we started.
Edward said: At least to me this camp felt like a puzzle to be cracked beating people with no armour or weapons I do like this perspective. I am so confused what to do! Challenge or just go buy some crappy chainmail!
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The adventure (or so it states) is aimed at "5-8 characters of level 2-4". So really, there should be no insurmountable obstacles for careful and/or clever players. Agreed but in our current state it took 23 hit points of Buraum (not the brightest of sparks) to deal 3 damage to the Gnoll that's not a good exchange rate XD at that rate we are going to be losing 2 of us for every kill. all this said im exited to get back on with the adventer how ever we go about doing that Note Niq is still up for the kill the Travers/villagers take their stuff method of re-equiping. Strong take from the weak and all that jazz. Tis natures way after all ;) Joe C. said: Yeah, I didn't mean Petros ... I was referring to some of the other 22 (seriously, that's the number, from this module alone) characters that have slipped their mortal coil. Side note and a bit of fun i think i can name all my guys who have died since i started playing over a year ago dont know if its because they were memorable or because I remember pointless things in odder they were made 1st Subject 5 (Prototype Zan'Zu a magic detecting magic-user because who needs magic missiles) Died to orcs in the Palace as Petross back out of the way faster than him 2nd Rumple-stump the man the myth the legend died to skeletons somehow after trying to kill him self 100 other ways his 17 strength will be missed 3rd Sir Ivansteen diseased (25% to damage rounded down) and barely surviving a run in with flesh eating grubs died to a ant of all things 4th Keldor (the wepons master) 3 long swords a spear and 2 axes isn't too many weapons! Dont taurnt Hobgoblins kid they WILL kill you XD 5th Zan'Zu casting light is stupid moving on... 6th ok you got me he was a cleric with some made up name and I wanted him to learn speak animals. Died to a bat after jumping from the 2nd story of the homestead onto said bat 7th Elf fell off a horse and started a fight with the horse trader sadly i didnt get to play him very long he died the same week I made him... 8th Cid my conman and his his loveable goblin buddies, died because arrows are no joke 9th Quinn a Champion who lived for combat and collecting heads died in a duel which i felt was very in character 10th Amber my attempt at a ranger died in the massacrer 11/12th Vi and Buraum i had big plans for these too illusionist and her brother who was going to be the brawn to her brains sadly didnt work out as they never made it out the camp
Edward said: Note Niq is still up for the kill the Travers/villagers take their stuff method of re-equiping. Strong take from the weak and all that jazz. Tis natures way after all ;) Gran just won't be a part of that. She will not stoop to banditry. This just isn't an option to her. This is a big part of why she would put down 1k of her own gold to reequip the group. Side note and a bit of fun i think i can name all my guys who have died since i started playing over a year ago dont know if its because they were memorable or because I remember pointless things in odder they were made 1st Subject 5 (Prototype Zan'Zu a magic detecting magic-user because who needs magic missiles) Died to orcs in the palice as Petross back out of the way 2nd Rumple-stump the man the myth the legend died to skeleton somehow after trying to kill him self 100 other ways his 17 strength will be missed 3rd Keldor (the wepons master) 3 long swords a spear and 2 axes isn't too many weapons! Dont tarnt Hobgoblins kid they WILL kill you XD 4th Zan'Zu casting light is stupid moving on... 5th Sir Ivansteen diseased (25% to damage rounded down) and barely surviving a run in with flesh eating grubs died to a ant of all things 6th ok you got me he was a cleric with some made up name and I wanted him to learn speak animals. died to a bat after jumping from the 2nd story of the homestead on to said bat 7th Elf fell off a house and started i fight with the horse trader sadly i didnt get to play him very long he died the same week I made him... 8th Cid my conman and his his loveable goblin buddies, died because arrows are no joke 9th Quinn a Champion who lived for combat and collecting heads died in a duel which i felt was very in character 10th Amber my attempt at a ranger died in the massacrer 11/12th Vi and Buraum big plans institution and her brother who was going to be the brawn to her brains unlucky didnt work out as they never made it out the camp Erm... 1. Tomba :P Granted, I played a single character for a long long time though :) That list does bring back memories though! A lot of great characters there.
Vesavius said: Erm... 1. Tomba :P Granted, I played a single character for a long long time though :) That list does bring back memories though! A lot of great characters there. All right there Mr never dies :P
Edward said: Vesavius said: Erm... 1. Tomba :P Granted, I played a single character for a long long time though :) That list does bring back memories though! A lot of great characters there. All right there Mr never dies :P Clerics are easy mode :P
Edward said: Vesavius said: Erm... 1. Tomba :P Granted, I played a single character for a long long time though :) That list does bring back memories though! A lot of great characters there. All right there Mr never dies :P Click the "Chat Log" for the game. That first batch of die rolls - that's the stat rolls for Petros... Shooting arrows from the back has some advantages. Of course there's a long list of second characters who haven't lasted quite so long. Pankul being the exception with some longevity - even though he formed half of the front line dwarf wall for a module or two worth of combats.
Sam H. said: Edward said: Vesavius said: Erm... 1. Tomba :P Granted, I played a single character for a long long time though :) That list does bring back memories though! A lot of great characters there. All right there Mr never dies :P Click the "Chat Log" for the game. That first batch of die rolls - that's the stat rolls for Petros... Shooting arrows from the back has some advantages. Of course there's a long list of second characters who haven't lasted quite so long. Pankul being the exception with some longevity - even though he formed half of the front line dwarf wall for a module or two worth of combats. We need to get a frontline fighter or two that will work in formation like that again back into the party... Pankul was a hard loss for the group.
Vesavius said: Sam H. said: Edward said: Vesavius said: Erm... 1. Tomba :P Granted, I played a single character for a long long time though :) That list does bring back memories though! A lot of great characters there. All right there Mr never dies :P Click the "Chat Log" for the game. That first batch of die rolls - that's the stat rolls for Petros... Shooting arrows from the back has some advantages. Of course there's a long list of second characters who haven't lasted quite so long. Pankul being the exception with some longevity - even though he formed half of the front line dwarf wall for a module or two worth of combats. We need to get a frontline fighter or two that will work in formation like that again back into the party... Pankul was a hard loss for the group. Arr the dwarf wall it 'twas a safer time :'(
Oh the happy days of the Dwarf wall. Can't you just hear Pankul and Gran debating their respective beliefs while smashing in goblin skulls, and probably whining to each other about how come the clerics get to take all the hits around these parts and isn't "fighter" a profession these days. All the while holding the line like Gandalf holds the Bridge of Khazad-dûm. Oh well plate armor doesn't help against magic missiles - and I think much to his embarrassment Pankul might have died with an uncast cure light wounds prayer in his head (though maybe not, there had been a bunch of fighting)... We seem to have got off track, though. All the DMs fault of course :) So "run away and live to fight another day" is the new plan? Back to town and steal some equipment ("it's just an expression Gran, no we aren't sure where the thief is" - says everyone who isn't Gran) and find a villager somewhere with a rat problem in their basement? On the bright side anyone who felt guilty about losing the horses and sending an honest hardworking family into complete poverty at least has now lost more wealth themselves. Guilt is all relative right? And that lowers it, surely?
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Guilt... they were paying us 500 gold they are lucky we even bothered for that. Not to mention we straight up killed a merchant for those horses. Of the reasons we have to feel guilt the loss of the horses is low XD
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Vesavius said: We need to get a frontline fighter or two that will work in formation like that again back into the party... Pankul was a hard loss for the group. It's a fair point. Therefore, I'll make one further amendment to the House Rules (I must be going soft in my old age). When rolling up a new character, you may, if you so wish, interchange any two ability scores. This should then give you a lot more flexibility when it comes to selecting a viable class, thereby making it easier to have a better balance of classes across the party. If you do decide to retreat to town and purchase equipment in a law abiding fashion, I'm happy for you to go ahead and do so. You may purchase anything (including Plate Mail armour) at standard rulebook prices. A blank spellbook costs 50 gp. The cost to add a spell to that book will be 600 gp per spell level. If you decide to retreat to town and acquire goods and services by "alternate" means, then we'll play that out as normal. Remember ... there's no game tomorrow so you've still got plenty of time to work this out.
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Edward said: Not to mention we straight up killed a merchant for those horses. They were fences for the goblins! Straight up collaborators of chaos profiting off the misery and deaths of the raider's victims! Gran really doesn't feel a shred of guilt for their end.
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Joe C. said: If you do decide to retreat to town and purchase equipment in a law abiding fashion, I'm happy for you to go ahead and do so. You may purchase anything (including Plate Mail armour) at standard rulebook prices. A blank spellbook costs 50 gp. The cost to add a spell to that book will be 600 gp per spell level. If you decide to retreat to town and acquire goods and services by "alternate" means, then we'll play that out as normal. Ouch... ok, if we do this Gran has enough to maybe lend Silas enough for one spell and buy herself some chainmail, a new holy symbol, some basic trail gear and rations, and something heavy to hit people with. I can't see her doing a lot of lending TBH, unless we forgo spells for the MUs (just buy spell books and hope we find scrolls) and just focus on the melees. Platemail alone is 300gp though, so that clearly is off the counter. (I said before that we would be heading out with level 1 gear... I think it is safe to say that level ones would be better geared! I am starting to refocus on the getting our gear back from the gnolls thing tbh. 1000gp between us just won't go that far and I honestly can't see the vaults of Threshold being easier to rob than a gnoll village, especially considering Gran won't knowingly be a part of it.)
I'm sure there will be money-lenders in both Threshold and and Kelven ...
Joe C. said: I'm sure there will be money-lenders in both Threshold and and Kelven ... Ahh right, I hadn't considered that. I hope that they are willing to take sticks as collateral! :D
we could give them Petros as collateral I've heard he's useful for something XD
I'm pretty sure no one wants him. Heck he's lost his soap collection - the real loss of this situation - so he won't even smell nice anymore.
Have we come to a conclusion? I am not even sure at this point.
Who knows... Back to town and beg for equipment I think. Come back and burn the gnolls to the ground another day. Though I'm really not sure what we'll be able to achieve with a couple of sticks for weapons. Maybe there's an underground fight club or something.
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I am not even sure who to beg... The church doesn't want a sniff of us if we are fighting gnolls (which we probably would have to do again if we have to head through their sacred grounds again... Is there another route? I wasn't here the week we headed out to the mountains). I would say try and get financing from a rich merchant or something, but I am not sure how solid an investment we look right now. We would probably be best going back to Kelvin, at least there is some money there... Maybe Gran could sell her house for some extra funds. That means probably getting manual jobs and working our passage down the river. It's not like we can sell ourselves as guards armed with sticks and dressed just in our undercrackers, so probably as deckhands or something? We would probably end up walking and trying to live off the land as we go.
I've been mulling this over, waiting for some inspiration to hit. (It hasn't) First off, full disclosure. I will have to bow out of the game at the end of the month so I'll only be here for another couple of sessions. The problem as I see it is that there are a fair number of options but no one clear 'best' option. The chances of getting our equipment back seem slim to none but one part of me says that an adventurer never walks away from his gear. I don't know about anyone else but I've been feeling a little frustrated that we haven't seemed to 'finish' any of our 'quests' in this adventure. We seem to keep dropping quests in favor of new ones without really getting closure on any of them. Maybe I'm not Old School enough but just leaving our stuff doesn't sit right with me. As has been mentioned 1000 gp won't go very far in re-outfitting a whole party and even if we intend to come back that will be at least a couple of weeks if not more plus there's dealing with who knows what while we're traveling. I think if done well (although I don't have a clue how that would be) I think the burning plan could work. If we could create enough confusion and smoke someone might be able to get our stuff out. I'm not sure that setting fire to the building that our stuff is actually in is the best idea though. Having said all that, I don't have any other ideas, and since I'll be bowing out I will simply try to help you out with whatever plan you decide for my last couple of sessions.
Ray said: I'm not sure that setting fire to the building that our stuff is actually in is the best idea though. Sure the magic users aren't going to like the results of that. But I was hoping magic armor and weapons are fireproof. Spellbooks are as flammable as petrol I'm sure. It's not like we really used that bag of holding, well we won't need it once the flammable stuff isn't around anymore.
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Ray said: I've been mulling this over, waiting for some inspiration to hit. (It hasn't) First off, full disclosure. I will have to bow out of the game at the end of the month so I'll only be here for another couple of sessions. That's a shame to hear Ray. The problem as I see it is that there are a fair number of options but no one clear 'best' option. The chances of getting our equipment back seem slim to none but one part of me says that an adventurer never walks away from his gear. Maybe I'm not Old School enough but just leaving our stuff doesn't sit right with me. As has been mentioned 1000 gp won't go very far in re-outfitting a whole party and even if we intend to come back that will be at least a couple of weeks if not more plus there's dealing with who knows what while we're traveling. Yeah, this what a large part of me is saying as well, must be honest. We are in between a rock and a hard place though I guess. We just have to make the choice that sucks the least.
Maybe Joe will let us do a time hop and jump forward 3 or so weeks to cover the time spent travelling back to Kelvin, selling the house, getting re equipped on the 2000gp that and her bank money would give us, and coming back to Threshold? Leaving that hard won gear still burns, no pun intended, but at this point I just want to start making progress again.
Vesavius said: Maybe Joe will let us do a time hop and jump forward 3 or so weeks to cover the time spent travelling back to Kelvin, selling the house, getting re equipped on the 2000gp that and her bank money would give us, and coming back to Threshold? Certainly. I'd like to complete any "housekeeping" like this in the current downtime so that we can resume with the exciting stuff.
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This week is flying past... I'm still not sure what the plan is. If it's Gran selling stuff to buy equipment and then off to threshold (and then what - try a trip that our detect-magic light show of a party couldn't manage with just the basics?). The "basics" from the book I have would seem to be (I probably miscounted a few things): Thief: thieves tools, leather, short bow, arrows, quiver - 73gp Fighter: chain, shield, long sword - 77gp Cleric: holy symbol, chain, shield, mace - 98gp Magic User: spellbook and spells - 1,000,000 gp Of course rope, rations, lanterns/torches, etc will add up too - but they can be shared out (not everyone needs to have lantern, etc). And of course fighters might want a bow in addition (or instead for those who want to hide with the thieves). Though longbows seem a tad excessive - why does a bent piece of wood cost 6 times as much as a steel (I assume) long sword?!? I don't remember how big the party is with all the deaths and new rollups. But other than the magic users the basics seem to be doable at about 100gp per character. Petros of course will be suggesting to Gran for the entire trip that if we are going to be stuck with mundane equipment rather than using randomly found awesome items then we should make it uniform like guards do. I simple logo on the shields and helmets. And on the capes or cloaks that surely everyone will be wearing. He whips up a quick stylized design with some red rocks that he suggests: That P&E happens to be the initials of "Petros and entourage" is entirely coincidental - it's just a cool looking scrawl with no meaning... Maybe we can get some soap with the logo on it too - that seems a worthwhile investment.
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No doubt Gran will be giving Petros a few clips around the ear as they travel. We will only have a plan set in stone when we all actually just vote for one I guess, seeing as whatever we do we will have to do as a party and not just wander off on our own thing. The choices, so far, are; 1. Go to town, drink enough to drown what's left of our self respect and dignity and repress the memory of that lost gear that we sweated blood for, get over the hangover, and buy enough stuff to continue. 2. Continue trying to defeat a whole fortified armed and militarily organised settlement of alert and angry gnolls with sticks and harsh language. If this is the choice we make then Gran will be challenging the chief to a scrap and letting the die fall where they may. Let's just all vote 1 or 2. The majority wins. We can only discuss it for so long before we have to actually decide. Right now, in the interests of not wanting to attempt the second part of this module as level 1 characters in level 1 gear I vote 1. Let's get off the fence and make a clear choice before Sunday.