Rotating Token Groups

I LOVE Roll20. But I recently tried to set up a Warhammer Fantasy battle, which necessarily includes groups of tokens moving and rotating in formation (on a map with no grid). While Roll20 nicely supports "grouping" individual tokens into a single formation, there does not appear to be any way to rotate the formation (i.e., there is no rotation handle on the group). If I'm just missing something, please let me know. Otherwise, this would be a nice feature (i.e., allow groups to be rotated like tokens). I actually use formations even in certain RPG settings.

More generally, it could be useful to be able to rotate any group of graphics. If you sketch something on the map, using the drawing tools, each stroke or line is treated as a separate object, you can group them and move them together, but it could be useful to be able to rotate them together.

This is a great idea, and Patrick's additions as well.

New guy here. So, tokens can be rotated, right? So couldn't I just use a picture of my units from overhead and use the token overlays to account for number of individual models lost? Seems that would be easier than trying to build up a unit of individuals as a group. For riding units I'd just keep them as individual models and rotate manually? I'd be interested in how others are using Roll20 with tabletop wargames like WFB.

As units take damage, they change size and shape. You'd have to constantly change which token you're using each time your unit takes damage.

After playing with it a bit I see your point. It would be ideal to be able to rotate a group.

I agree. Being able to rotate groups of anything is essential.

+1 to this.

Absolutely I would like to be able to layer graphics together and duplicate, then rotate them into positions as I am setting up my maps seems to be a pain when you line everything up then when you want to rotate the image you have to ungroup them and then rotate, realign and group again. I was looking at a scenario where a man jumps on to the back of a dragon, if the dragon turn so should the man...

Was trying to get a friend into wargaming, wanted to use roll20 for this, but without group rotation, it's really clunky to do. Otherwise, loving your work (would still love to see more on dynamic lighting... but you know... whenever...)

I was also looking into using roll20 for wargaming, and the only real issue I can find is that you can't rotate token groups as a unit. This is the only feature that I can see I really want for roll20. Some aditional sugar coating would be damage for groups and group specific markings. As for rotating scenery it is also very nice, you can setup a nice forest line following th e normal snapping, and then rotate the whole line of trees to whatever angle you want and have it still looking nice. This is just an example ofcourse, it can just aswell be used for roads or many other uses.

Chris F. and Weakman, what Wargaming do you do?  - Gauss

For proper wargaming we would need three types of rotation... Rotation on a corner of the whole group (wheeling) Rotation of every token in the whole group (facing change) Rotation of the whole group in the center, (pin wheel)

I faced this issue when trying to figure out WHFB myself, as I want to play, but I'm not going to spend the minimum $100 just to get started. One not unreasonable compromise is use 1 token for a full unit, and use the resize options when the unit changes size due to loss or reformation. You can then rotate, but you can't wheel.   Still, it's workable I think (haven't actually played yet, on R20)

JonathanTheBlack said: For proper wargaming we would need three types of rotation... Rotation on a corner of the whole group (wheeling) Rotation of every token in the whole group (facing change) Rotation of the whole group in the center, (pin wheel) While Jonathan is correct that various rotation options would be ideal, rotating groups around a center point would be a good start.  By rotating a formation and shifting its position, it would be possible to simulate a pivot.  I'm really glad there's so much interest in adding this option.

Riley D. said: So, when you rotate a group -- should we rotate the entire group around a central point (meaning that a piece in spot A1 may end up in C3), or do we rotate each piece independently where it is (meaning if it starts in A1 it's always in A1, but now it's facing 45 degrees to the right)? In my opinion, the second option would not be very useful.  The point is to rotate the entire group (i.e., the formation)--not to rotate each individual member of the group.

+1 to this.

JonathanTheBlack said: For proper wargaming we would need three types of rotation... Rotation on a corner of the whole group (wheeling) Rotation of every token in the whole group (facing change) Rotation of the whole group in the center, (pin wheel) +1 I also play WFB and without token group rotation Roll20 can't be used for that. I would say that #3 is the most important (after this we could play games like WFB), #1 is the second most important (after this playing would get significantly easier assuming #3 was already implemented) and #1 is the least important but would help in specific situations (assuming #2 and #3 were already implemented).

+1 Sound's good to me.

JonathanTheBlack said: For proper wargaming we would need three types of rotation... Rotation on a corner of the whole group (wheeling) Rotation of every token in the whole group (facing change) Rotation of the whole group in the center, (pin wheel) +1!

Patrick C. said: More generally, it could be useful to be able to rotate any group of graphics. I agree very much with Patrick C. here, because I don't see a reason for defining or limitating "grouped rotation" just to tokens.

I would definatly love to see some group wheeling. 

More options on rotating +1!!!  Being able to rotate a token from the corners instead of the centre is what I'd be looking for.  Even from the centre of a side could possibly be useful.

I'd love to see this too. As an aside it's very possible to play warhammer on roll20 though at the moment I have tokens arranged with different facings on a separate page to sub in when turns a n wheels happen.

A moveable pivot point would be the way to go.  Just like an object in Photoshop.  Just move the pivot point to wherever you like and the you could wheel or spin around it..  Would be great!

Gary L. said: A moveable pivot point would be the way to go.  Just like an object in Photoshop.  Just move the pivot point to wherever you like and the you could wheel or spin around it..  Would be great! This sounds like a great way to do this.

Sounds good to me.

We added a 24" ruler as a token.  The pivot handle is on the end yet it spins in the middle.  If the pivot was as the other end of the handle you could drag one end to the front of another character/token and swivel the other end to create a line of sight/range indicator.  Follow?  Clear as mud:) My buddy and I are  having a ball building our games and experimenting with Roll20.  Awesome way for two old gaming buddies who no longer live in the same town to keep at it!  If anybody's wondering, we're setting up Car Wars and Strange Aeons. Great fun!

To simulate pivoting at one end for now just pad the token with transparent space.  So if you have a ruler that is 1"x24" make it 1"x48" with one end of the ruler starting in the middle (24") and ending at 48".  Then is spins very nicely around one end of the ruler.  I do this for my line and cone effects. Here is an example.  The only problem being is the token gets fairly large so you have to send it to the back a lot so you can select other tokens.  Also I was getting performance problems with large tokens and a slower notebook, but they seem a lot better on my newer notebook now.  Also the measuring tool is very useful for a ruler, just remember to hold the Alt key before you start if you want to start your measurement from any spot on the grid and not snap to it.  Same thing with rotating.

Gary L. said: We added a 24" ruler as a token.  The pivot handle is on the end yet it spins in the middle.  If the pivot was as the other end of the handle you could drag one end to the front of another character/token and swivel the other end to create a line of sight/range indicator.  Follow?  Clear as mud:) My buddy and I are  having a ball building our games and experimenting with Roll20.  Awesome way for two old gaming buddies who no longer live in the same town to keep at it!  If anybody's wondering, we're setting up Car Wars and Strange Aeons. Great fun! Carwars, cool.  But there is a lot of pivoting and Roll20 really needs to have a changeable pivot point to do car wars easily.  a while ago I was going to try Carwars with Maptools and created some tokens.  I'll dig those up again maybe. After Steve Jackson's successful Ogre Kickstarter he has promised to redo Car Wars again.  So somehting good might eventually come out of that. You can also do Car wars on Vassal, but I've never really gotten into the UI and other stuff of Vassal.

Gary L. said: We added a 24" ruler as a token.  The pivot handle is on the end yet it spins in the middle.  If the pivot was as the other end of the handle you could drag one end to the front of another character/token and swivel the other end to create a line of sight/range indicator.  Follow?  Clear as mud:) My buddy and I are  having a ball building our games and experimenting with Roll20.  Awesome way for two old gaming buddies who no longer live in the same town to keep at it!  If anybody's wondering, we're setting up Car Wars and Strange Aeons. Great fun! I'd love to see what you are doing for Car Wars tokens, turning key, etc.  Maybe we should start a thread in one of the sections to talk about it?

Great ruler workaround.  I'll try that post haste!  If anyone wants a look at my Car Wars tabletop...Let me know!  Welcome to play when it's ready too!  It's basically ready to go!  Cars...Turning Keys etc.  I'll have smoke and debris stuff in a day or so...

+1 for turning around the center

Konrad J. said: To simulate pivoting at one end for now just pad the token with transparent space.  So if you have a ruler that is 1"x24" make it 1"x48" with one end of the ruler starting in the middle (24") and ending at 48".  Then is spins very nicely around one end of the ruler.  I do this for my line and cone effects. Here is an example.  The only problem being is the token gets fairly large so you have to send it to the back a lot so you can select other tokens.  Also I was getting performance problems with large tokens and a slower notebook, but they seem a lot better on my newer notebook now.  Also the measuring tool is very useful for a ruler, just remember to hold the Alt key before you start if you want to start your measurement from any spot on the grid and not snap to it.  Same thing with rotating. Sounds like you got something special here but unfotunately I couldn't follow your explanation and that prtscn just confused me even more. I'm sorry for being such and idiot but could you please try to explain it again?

I would be happy to! &nbsp;Its easy, but not easy to explain perhaps. &nbsp;First you need to know a bit about a graphics program like GIMP or Photoshop. &nbsp;I use Photoshop, but I hear GIMP is great and free. &nbsp;If you need help with that part then let me know, I'm good with Photoshop! Basically if you want something to rotate around a corner you need to double the overall dimensions of its height and width, this extra space would be padded with transparent space (so must be saved as a .png). &nbsp;Any dimension you don't double it will rotate around its centre. &nbsp;So lets take for example a 5" x 1" ruler. &nbsp;You would make the overall size of the graphic 10' x 2". &nbsp;If you wanted the ruler to rotate around its centre at one end you would make the overall graphic 10'x1" instead of the 10"x2" below. &nbsp;The capture below shows the graphics centre is at the red cross so thats where it will rotate in Roll20. And here is a video of it in Roll20... <a href="http://youtu.be/OAw7eWLMwwE" rel="nofollow">http://youtu.be/OAw7eWLMwwE</a> Please feel free to ask me any questions. &nbsp;And if you have a specific token you need created just PM me and I'll create it for you. &nbsp;Give me a good description. &nbsp;What it does, size, colour, any text on it, etc. &nbsp;I can make just about anything. :)

Works great and a great explanation!

Yes thank you very much. Now that I got it I feel such a fool for not understanding it before. I mean you already said it all in your previous post but I just didn't understand.

Maetco said: Yes thank you very much. Now that I got it I feel such a fool for not understanding it before. I mean you already said it all in your previous post but I just didn't understand. No problem! &nbsp;Feel free to ask anything!

I feel this is such an important subject that it deserves to get a bump :)

Riley D. said: So, when you rotate a group -- should we rotate the entire group around a central point (meaning that a piece in spot A1 may end up in C3), or do we rotate each piece independently where it is (meaning if it starts in A1 it's always in A1, but now it's facing 45 degrees to the right)? You could do both. The white square that most pictures have could be used to rotate each image over its own axis/center, then you could add an additional functionality icon that would rotate the whole thing over a calculated center. Kinda like this