Game Mechanics Talks

Hey Nate :) Yeah, I believe you and I saw the same post from Thor. I agree that this is a functionally more accurate way of characterizing Exhausted, and we might see such a change in language should the 2nd edition *ever* come out. In the most recent dungeon we've had some Exhausted conditions that haven't gotten cleared through the course of several conflicts, so it's come up with enough frequency in that time to make me actually think about it. Sick, on the other hand, I wish was different. That condition is anathema.

Are there any implications mechanically for simply making that an official group houserule?  I can't think of anywhere -1s behaves differently to +1Ob. It certainly seems more consistent.

I think as a mechanic 1s is applied only to ties and wins/losses depending on +\-    The factor for Exhausted should be applied to all rolls. 

What Nate said. I think the same applies to Dim Light as well. Darkness introduces the possibility of evil GM asking for tests on all sorts of things, primarily lighting a torch, but in general follows with the other two.

Good points TED. I wouldn't be surprised either if the 2nd book will clarify this with an exception for Dim light/Darkness and Exhausted under the +/-1s rule.

-s is deducted pass or fail, only +s are dependent on a win or tie, as per page 8.  The only time this is going to matter is if you wanted to test for Exhaustion/Dim Light in isolation, as opposed to simply a Factor on another test.

Not sure by what you mean by "if you wanted to test for Exhaustion/Dim Light in isolation", but the rest makes sense.  Does the factor for dim light/darkness apply for Recovery tests? I don't have my book with me, but the -1s deduction regardless of pass/fail on a tests makes sense.  Seems like just applying -1s for Exhausted and Dim light/Darkness makes the most sense then.

Welp, per pg77: Exhausted effect: Being Exhausted is a factor in all tests (except Circles or Resources tests and tests for Recovery).  The condition effectively increases the difficulty of tests by one.  In a versus or obstacle 0 test you suffer a -1s penalty to your roll --- including the disposition roll for a conflict.

Gareth G. said: -s is deducted pass or fail, only +s are dependent on a win or tie, as per page 8.  The only time this is going to matter is if you wanted to test for Exhaustion/Dim Light in isolation, as opposed to simply a Factor on another test. If you use +1Ob for Exhaustion/dim light asking for a test is correct, but if -1s it's kinda weird to ask for a test. Do we transform simple task into test with the Exhaustion/Dim light rule, or not?

SionoiS said: Do we transform simple task into test with the Exhaustion/Dim light rule, or not? Personally I'd say that depends on the GM.  As written tests are literally just a skill rolled against a collection of factors, so in theory you could force the players to roll for anything they attempt in either dim light or while exhausted (except that it lists them as -1s effects in ob 0 tests...).

Also, what happen if I roll fighter with a 2h sword bonus(+1s, -1D), I'm exhausted and the result of the VS is tied? Do we calculate exhaustion before or after sword bonus?

I would say since Exhausted is a factor it should be counted first.  There only needs to be a test if something is at stake, even if a character is in dim light or exhausted or in dim light. The definition of Factor is pretty clear so if there wouldn't normally be a test there should not be a test because you are exhausted or in dim light. Factors make tests more difficult. They do not generate a test. Darkness is an exception which is defined as giving you limited options for Conflicts. 

SionoiS said: Also, what happen if I roll fighter with a 2h sword bonus(+1s, -1D), I'm exhausted and the result of the VS is tied? Do we calculate exhaustion before or after sword bonus? At the front of the book both say "after the roll", so I'd say just factor it all in together. Success/tie/fail is based on an initial roll result then checking modifiers: +s on success/tie, -s always. So that VS tie would still be a tie unless armor, a trait, fate, a wise, or some other source can help you out. Speaking of conditions:  At the GM’s option, being angry can count as a factor in any test or conflict requiring precision or social graces (this never includes tests for recovery). In a versus test requiring precision or social graces, being angry gives you a -1s to your roll. Skills affected by the angry condition include: Alchemist, Scholar, Cartographer, Cook, Dungeoneer, Haggler, Healer, Mentor, Lore Master, Manipulator, Commander, Orator, Pathfinder, Persuader, and Survivalist. It's like every time I open this book there's something I discover I've missed. That's over half the skills! Angry is even worse than Exhausted!

Good finds TED. these are gems. 

Considering gems in this game tend to be things people die over, I cannot disagree with this statement.

<a href="https://www.burningwheel.com/forum/showthread.php" rel="nofollow">https://www.burningwheel.com/forum/showthread.php</a>?... Just going to leave this here...

That made me laugh so hard. Luke and Thor are such nice guys - they made this grimdark survival game then felt guilty about the way they designed it so they play the rules more forgivingly than they initially made them xD