critical confirm / critical damage 3d dice always show even on non-crit attack rolls

Does anyone have any idea why critical confirm 3d dice are always showing even when it isn't a crit and doesn't show in the roll template? Is there anything I can do to make this not happen? I suppose this is a quality of life thing but it really bothers me that on non crits half the 3d dice on my screen are meaningless. It sort of defeats the entire experience of using the 3d dice if I have to mouseover in the chat to see which d20 is the "real" one you know? Edit for screenshot:

What sheet are you using and can you post the macro for someone to look over?

Pathfinder sheet, and I've mentioned it to the creators  authors and they've indicated it's likely a roll20 issue. Personally I remember this being a problem a long time ago but I thought it was fixed. Here is the standard weapon attack macro: @{PC-whisper} &{template:pf_attack} {{character_name=@{character_name}}} {{character_id=@{character_id}}} {{subtitle}} {{name=@{name}}} {{attack=[[ 1d20cs>[[ @{crit-target} ]] + [[ @{total-attack} ]] ]]}} {{damage=[[ @{damage-dice-num}d@{damage-die} + [[ @{total-damage} ]] ]]}} {{crit_confirm=[[ 1d20 + [[ @{total-attack} ]] ]]}} {{crit_damage=[[ [[ (@{damage-dice-num} * (@{crit-multiplier} - 1)) ]]d@{damage-die} + [[ (@{total-damage} * (@{crit-multiplier} - 1)) ]] ]]}} {{type=@{type}}} {{description=@{notes}}} @{iterative_attacks} @{macro_options}

I'll let one of the macro masters take look before we move further along. I was just hoping it was something in the macro.

Sounds like a plan! Yeah I can't really spot anything wrong with the syntax...

I believe this is a known bug between roll templates, 3d dice, and macros that include lots of rolls.  Have you searched the bugs forum?

May be related <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/2482088/slug%7D" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/2482088/slug%7D</a>

Yes, I scoured the internet quite thoroughly looking for an answer before bothering anyone with a post. I guess my word choice was different enough to not match. The issue you've linked doesn't seem entirely related. I'd agree it highlights the odd interaction between macros, sheets, and 3d dice, but I've always found that his issue (attack dice not showing) is solved within the macro syntax. *shrug* Reading further it seems to me like the solution to his problem might cause &nbsp;my problem, heh. I'm not familiar with roll20's back-end structure but I've done a lot of programming in my time. It seems to me that it will be rather challenging to make the 3d dice know which dice to not roll from the macro. A possible solution might be to add a optional flag to critical rolls that flat-out silences the roll unless a preceding "1d20 cs&gt;X * is observed and its condition met. Perhaps something like "1d20 cc " and "1dx cc" would be adequate? Here's basically how I envision that working: A 1d20cs roll causes a temporary cache to be created of its result (probably just a variable specific to the player that gets overridden with every cs roll -- maybe a session variable would be good here? I mean, it's just a boolean value), on 1dXcc roll check if that cached value is true or false, silence the roll &nbsp;cc is attached to if false, allow it if true. Obviously you'd want it to be an optional flag so you don't break all previous macros that rely on critical rolls, but it would be a nice addition going forward. Anyway that's my suggestion, do with it as you will.

For your suggestions, we offer the Suggestions & Ideas forum, which is based on voting from the whole community. Please review our Forum Voting wiki page for more information on how voting works, and our Suggestions & Ideas Posting Guidelines for the added expectations above and beyond our standard Code of Conduct .

Since this appears to be a possible bug aka needs a devs attention, I'm going to shuffle this thread back to the bugs forum. Thank you for your patience with this back and forth. I would normally toss up the troubleshooting guide ( I will anyway at the bottom of the post ) around now but I think a console log would help out more than anything. Just to dot all the i's and cross all the t's, you should go ahead do the troubleshooting guide&nbsp;since it couldn't hurt but step 4 is what will probably provide the most information. Boilerplate troubleshooting guide: Can you please follow Steps 1-3 of our Solving Technical Issues wiki page, taking special care to temporarily disable all browser add-ons and extensions, temporarily pause your anti-virus, and try switching browsers (for Chrome/Firefox specific issues) to see if one of those components is causing the problem. If all of that fails, please follow Step 4 , including providing all of the necessary information, so that we can further assist you.

GenKitty said: For your suggestions, we offer the Suggestions & Ideas forum, which is based on voting from the whole community. Please review our Forum Voting wiki page for more information on how voting works, and our Suggestions & Ideas Posting Guidelines for the added expectations above and beyond our standard Code of Conduct . I will be more than happy to make a suggestion post if and when someone from roll20 expresses that: This is an issue the team is aware of and is looking for a fix. The issue is definitely not related to the macro or the sheet. Offering a suggestion in the suggestion forum doesn't seem like a good idea until I have that information here. For all I know you guys already have a better solution! :)

Pat S. said: Since this appears to be a possible bug aka needs a devs attention, I'm going to shuffle this thread back to the bugs forum. Thank you for your patience with this back and forth. I would normally toss up the troubleshooting guide ( I will anyway at the bottom of the post ) around now but I think a console log would help out more than anything. Just to dot all the i's and cross all the t's, you should go ahead do the troubleshooting guide&nbsp;since it couldn't hurt but step 4 is what will probably provide the most information. Boilerplate troubleshooting guide: Can you please follow Steps 1-3 of our Solving Technical Issues wiki page, taking special care to temporarily disable all browser add-ons and extensions, temporarily pause your anti-virus, and try switching browsers (for Chrome/Firefox specific issues) to see if one of those components is causing the problem. If all of that fails, please follow Step 4 , including providing all of the necessary information, so that we can further assist you. Thanks Pat! I'll look into getting you this information tonight but I'll be running a game. It might have to wait until tomorrow. My honest hunch is that this is unrelated to browser compatibility, but lets get that eliminated anyway. :)&nbsp;

Thanks Darpeh. Good luck with the game.

Darpeh. I just talked to a Dev about your issue and he looked it over. This is what he said: Steve K said: The issue is that there are half a dozen different 3D rolls being made at the same time. The 3D engine shows you whichever roll it gets first. It’s asynchronous, meaning it’s a race. Whichever one gets to the Quantum Roll Server first and back is the one that shows. It’s the same idea if you spammed two or three 3D rolls in the space of a second, only the first one will show on the screen. It’s the downside of rolling everything at once so it can be displayed. In the new 5E sheet I put out I have roll to hit, then roll for damage is separate pieces for this reason. So it is not a bug persay but the limitation of the coding that makes up roller engine for roll20. I would recommend you type up a suggestion like GenKitty suggested if you have an idea on how to fix the problem and drop the link in this thread. If you do that we can mark this resolved for now and close the thread. Sorry I don't have any instant fix for you.

Pat S. said: Darpeh. I just talked to a Dev about your issue and he looked it over. This is what he said: Steve K said: The issue is that there are half a dozen different 3D rolls being made at the same time. The 3D engine shows you whichever roll it gets first. It’s asynchronous, meaning it’s a race. Whichever one gets to the Quantum Roll Server first and back is the one that shows. It’s the same idea if you spammed two or three 3D rolls in the space of a second, only the first one will show on the screen. It’s the downside of rolling everything at once so it can be displayed. In the new 5E sheet I put out I have roll to hit, then roll for damage is separate pieces for this reason. So it is not a bug persay but the limitation of the coding that makes up roller engine for roll20. I would recommend you type up a suggestion like GenKitty suggested if you have an idea on how to fix the problem and drop the link in this thread. If you do that we can mark this resolved for now and close the thread. Sorry I don't have any instant fix for you. That seems to relate to dice not &nbsp;showing, but maybe I'm not understanding him. My issue is that there are too many dice? I guess I'm not making the connection in my head as to why that makes crit dice display on non-crits. Unless the implication is that the rolls are displayed before the status of the critical is known? A you can see from the screenshot below. I rolled a 9 which is definitely not a crit, and yet crit confirm dice are visible. Which one is the attack and which is the confirm?&nbsp;

Darpeh said: Does anyone have any idea why critical confirm 3d dice are always showing even when it isn't a crit and doesn't show in the roll template? Is there anything I can do to make this not happen? I suppose this is a quality of life thing but it really bothers me that on non crits half the 3d dice on my screen are meaningless. It sort of defeats the entire experience of using the 3d dice if I have to mouseover in the chat to see which d20 is the "real" one you know? Darpeh, The dice are always rolled even if not shown. The Roll Template is just a fancy way of showing the information. The crit-related information in the Roll Templates determines whether the die roll is shown in the chat pane out-put but the Roll Templates do not have any logic which would allow it to *not* roll some of the dice. This is easiest seen with the 3d dice because you will see the rolls, but I have also seen it when working on Roll Template logic: I can get rolls to show or not depending on what I enable in the Roll Template and, depending on what I've changed, it will show up in macro/rolls done previously to the change, but still in my chat history, since the system just applies the Roll Template to everything that is marked as belonging to that Roll Template. If you want a method to not have the dice roll for the crits, you would have to put the crits in a separate macro and only roll that macro if there is a crit, or possibly upgrade to Pro and use HoneyBadger's PowerCard API script (I think you can do if/then logic in that; I am not certain because I do not use it myself).

I infer that this is not really a "bug"; that all 3D dice sent to the text chat are rolled regardless of whether they are displayed in the text chat or not. e.g. [[1d4]] &{template:default} [[1d6]] ![[1d8]] All three dice will roll if sent to the text chat at the same time, despite the latter two being hidden from the text chat. So, I'd recommend a Suggestion post. Diana P said: If you want a method to not have the dice roll for the crits, you would have to put the crits in a separate macro and only roll that macro if there is a crit, or possibly upgrade to Pro and use HoneyBadger's PowerCard API script (I think you can do if/then logic in that; I am not certain because I do not use it myself). I don't think PowerCards supports 3D dice yet.

Diana P said: Darpeh said: Does anyone have any idea why critical confirm 3d dice are always showing even when it isn't a crit and doesn't show in the roll template? Is there anything I can do to make this not happen? I suppose this is a quality of life thing but it really bothers me that on non crits half the 3d dice on my screen are meaningless. It sort of defeats the entire experience of using the 3d dice if I have to mouseover in the chat to see which d20 is the "real" one you know? Darpeh, The dice are always rolled even if not shown. The Roll Template is just a fancy way of showing the information. The crit-related information in the Roll Templates determines whether the die roll is shown in the chat pane out-put but the Roll Templates do not have any logic which would allow it to *not* roll some of the dice. This is easiest seen with the 3d dice because you will see the rolls, but I have also seen it when working on Roll Template logic: I can get rolls to show or not depending on what I enable in the Roll Template and, depending on what I've changed, it will show up in macro/rolls done previously to the change, but still in my chat history, since the system just applies the Roll Template to everything that is marked as belonging to that Roll Template. If you want a method to not have the dice roll for the crits, you would have to put the crits in a separate macro and only roll that macro if there is a crit, or possibly upgrade to Pro and use HoneyBadger's PowerCard API script (I think you can do if/then logic in that; I am not certain because I do not use it myself). I've added a screenshot for clarity. Like I said this is really a quality of life thing, and if I had to choose I would have meaningless 3d dice on my screen to allow my macro to roll criticals for me. I don't like the idea of having a totally separated set of macros for every spell and weapon critical, and that really just seems like a lot of work to go to for a quality of life thing.&nbsp; However, if it is true that the templates have no influence on whether or not 3d dice get shown then I would say that may need to change. The intention of the 3d dice must surely be to add value and information to the player's experience.&nbsp;Having two sets of dice on my screen during a non crit roll adds the same value to my experience as a single set of blank dice. Does that make sense? They don't tell me anything; they just make a nice sound as they skitter across the tabletop. "Your roll is either a 7 or a 12 and you did either 1 or 6 damage." I'm not going to look at the dice at all in that instance, my eyes will go right to the chat to see my result - the same as if the dice were blank.&nbsp; Sure, there's probably work-arounds but why should I have to choose between my love of 3d dice and my love of the 1d20cs&gt;20 macro?

One of the less-painful workarounds (imo) is using API Command Buttons (does not require access to the API when used in this way): [Critical Damage](!&amp;#13;[[ [[ (@{damage-dice-num} * (@{crit-multiplier} - 1)) ]&amp;#93;d@{damage-die} + [[ (@{total-damage} * (@{crit-multiplier} - 1)) ]&amp;#93; ]&amp;#93;) @{PC-whisper} &amp;{template:pf_attack} {{character_name=@{character_name}}} {{character_id=@{character_id}}} {{subtitle}} {{name=@{name}}} {{attack=[[ 1d20cs&gt;[[ @{crit-target} ]] + [[ @{total-attack} ]] ]]}} {{damage=[[ @{damage-dice-num}d@{damage-die} + [[ @{total-damage} ]] ]]}} {{crit_confirm=[[ 1d20 + [[ @{total-attack} ]] ]]}} {{crit_damage=[Critical Damage](!&amp;#13;[[ [[ (@{damage-dice-num} * (@{crit-multiplier} - 1)) ]&amp;#93;d@{damage-die} + [[ (@{total-damage} * (@{crit-multiplier} - 1)) ]&amp;#93; ]&amp;#93;)}} {{type=@{type}}} {{description=@{notes}}} @{iterative_attacks} @{macro_options}

Huh, I did not know that I had access to the command buttons without the API. I probably won't use that for this, but that is helpful information none the less. Thanks!

Darpeh, you should check out how I handled this on the new 5th Edition OGL sheet. We now have the option to roll from the textchat. What I set it up to do is roll the attack, then from the text chat roll damage if you hit. That way you are only seeing the 3D dice for what you're rolling in that moment and it's easy to make the next roll. You could do the same thing with a confirm crit.

Steve K. said: Darpeh, you should check out how I handled this on the new 5th Edition OGL sheet. We now have the option to roll from the textchat. What I set it up to do is roll the attack, then from the text chat roll damage if you hit. That way you are only seeing the 3D dice for what you're rolling in that moment and it's easy to make the next roll. You could do the same thing with a confirm crit. Must investigate.

Vince said: Steve K. said: Darpeh, you should check out how I handled this on the new 5th Edition OGL sheet. We now have the option to roll from the textchat. What I set it up to do is roll the attack, then from the text chat roll damage if you hit. That way you are only seeing the 3D dice for what you're rolling in that moment and it's easy to make the next roll. You could do the same thing with a confirm crit. Must investigate. Godspeed Vince, I won't have time to play with this for a while.

Steve's comment should be in the wiki somewhere, that is huge. Everyone uses the &gt;cs&nbsp;