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Forced zoom percentage and (inadvertently) Dynamic Lighting ideas

1352553338
Gid
Roll20 Team
Hey guys. This argument went circular before we hit page two. Some people really want this and others really don't. All you guys are doing are rephrasing why you are for or against the feature's implementation. It's clear you're not going to convince one another over to your pov, so I'd recommend walking away. This sort of back and forth discourages anyone else from jumping into the conversation which defeats the purpose of the suggestion thread in the first place.
1352573881
Gauss
Forum Champion
Axel, I am not going to reproduce the massive post you made where you quoted me. However, I would like to point out a few things. 1) Initially people were saying that the GM should control Zoom. There were no qualifiers. Without qualifiers that statement is an absolute. Since we are not mind readers we only have the statement and the statement was an absolute. 2) I proposed MULTIPLE options. I am rather concrete in this regard. Of all of those options only one was absolutely untenable to me. That option is the one where the GM has all of the control over zoom, the player zero control over zoom, and there is no opt out feature for the player. It would make Roll20 unusuable for some of us. 3) You stated the map is a game handout. Do you prevent people from wearing glasses at your real life tables? Because that is exactly what zoom is for some of us. That is the point I am trying to make here. You make the statement that you would make accomodations for a person with sight difficulty. That is fine, but are you willing to make them constantly? How often are you willing to make an adjustment? Every 10minutes? 5minutes? 30seconds? 4) My statement about where this started is not a refutation of Zoom, it is a redirection back to the problem. My point is that a GM zoom control feature is not needed to fix the problem. My point is that zoom itself needs to be FIXED. The problem is that Zoom does not use center zoom it uses top left corner zoom. The OP asked for zoom control to fix it perhaps not realizing that the problem is that zoom is flawed. The OPs post was reporting a problem and then a possible solution. My comments are regarding fixing the problem which means his solution is not required. 5) I do not feel you have ill intent. I am logical rather than emotional and I try to work things out in a logical manner. However, I also do not believe my way is the only way. This is why I posted options and stated my opinions of those options. 6) As for you not feeling the need to discuss specifics. As I said earlier, if a statement without any qualifiers is made I have only that statement to go by. That statement was that GMs should have control of Zoom. Not limited scope control, not control with an opt out feature. Simply, control. It only became clear later that 'control' was really meant as 'control, somehow, someway, not necessarily absolute control'. 7) Finally, I think you are using some of what Jonathan has said in your post directed to me. I did not state some of the things you were italicized quoting. The only part of that last italicized quote that was mine is that I would be forced to discontinue using this if it were implemented due to my inability to use it. Not due to emotions. In any case, we have gone round and round on this topic. I am not diametrically opposed to the idea. I am only opposed to the GM having absolute control over my zoom. Unless new ideas or something else constructive is added to this I will not continue this back and forth. It is not productive. My ideas are on record (back when I posted the options). - Gauss
so I'd recommend walking away. And still it seemed quite a good idea....
Gauss, Continuing with this discussion is basically pointless now. So I'm not going to answer to all your points, just to this one: 3) You stated the map is a game handout. Do you prevent people from wearing glasses at your real life tables? Because that is exactly what zoom is for some of us. That is the point I am trying to make here. You make the statement that you would make accomodations for a person with sight difficulty. That is fine, but are you willing to make them constantly? How often are you willing to make an adjustment? Every 10minutes? 5minutes? 30seconds? Do you really think that I prevent people from wearing glasses at real life tables? Seemingly you didn't believe me when I said before that I understood your concern. How often am I willing to make accomodations required by the circumstances or particular difficulties of my players, even if it's just one of them? All the time . . . That means that if one or more of my players can't live with me occasionally setting zoom levels because an objective issue, I am not using the feature at all. I'm answering to this because as you said, you are, understandably, sensitive to this point. Otherwise I'm out of this discussion.
1352576519
Gauss
Forum Champion
Axel, I did not state you would prevent people, nor did I state that I did not believe you when you said you understood. I was making a comparison to show my point of view. I accept you are willing to make those adjustments but many are not. Especially not with the frequency I would require them to be made. - Gauss
Gauss, That is not different than my reluctance to use WebCams for online role playing. Some GMs are rejecting players just for that reason, but I'd never dream of protesting against the implementation of WebCams in Virtual Tabletops --my particular choice, situation, issue, whatever, shouldn't affect everyone else. On the other hand, sensible GMs should not reject a player just because he's having an eyesight problem like yours, meaning that they can't use a software feature. Good, interesting players and friends aren't everywhere after all!
No... I can... not... Must... keep hands away from keyboard.... aarrrgghhh....
Quickly, a Saving Throw against Thread!
1352577659
Gid
Roll20 Team
And still it seemed quite a good idea.... Patrick, I'm not implying that we're going to ignore this thread simply because we have users who feel strongly about a feature one way or another. All I'm saying is this back and forth needs to STOP now. You all have said your share of what you'd like to see. Let's allow other people to speak up. This combativeness is just going to scare off further conversation. If this keeps going I'll be forced to lock this thread.
That's what I was implying when I said that walking away seemed a good idea. Was there something I missed?
I'm against this for these reasons; 1. You do not know and it is silly to think a gm would manage screensizes for all players. 2. Pinging a player to an area larger or smaller then their screen they should want to view all the area I'd assume, if that's not the case then maybe break out these rooms into their own pages. I do like the idea of cinematically showing the players something but I don't think this idea is fleshed out enough to do that. That's my opinion.
If this keeps going I'll be forced to lock this thread. You should, I think.
1352580814
Gauss
Forum Champion
Kristin, my apologies. :) I thought I was being civil. - Gauss
1352584030
Gid
Roll20 Team
No prob, Gauss. The civility of the discussion was never in question. We're very lucky to have the community that we have. It just hit the point where the horse was clearly getting beaten between the four of you. We gauge the importance of any given suggestion via the amount of voices and upvotes that any particular thread gets. I'm just trying to keep the thread viable for more people to voice their opinion.