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Subscriptions (how I think they could boost their subscription count)

First post here so I'll take this time to say hi, and congratulate the team on having created one of the best product of the sort I have seen yet. That being said, and I hope I'm in the proper forum for that, I think their subscription strategy is very flawed. I understand that they need money to spend development time on Roll20, being a programmer myself I know how it is to work all day and code all night. However, I believe they would get a lot more money if subscriptions weren't as costy as they are right now. I would LOVE to subscribe to the Mentor subscription, but 100$ is a lot more than I am willing to pay for what is essentially Dev Server access. I know it gives a lot more, but 2000 MB isn't that required considering I still haven't got to 500 MB it seems. Support is nice, but I can't see myself extra to be able to email the team (plus I never encountered anything that required it so...). Access to the mentor forums... That's more a bonus for *them* so, why am I paying for that? The highlighted listing is nice though, I wouldn't use it but I can see how it's a nice incentive for Mentor status. So, thing is, I get they need money to make it their main job, but at this point, and having seen the support bar so low since... a while I honestly can't remember, I'm beginning to think they should switch their pricing tactic. Aim for more subscriber, but at a lesser cost. If only 5 person is willing to pay 100$, but 12 are willing to pay 60$, you're still making a profit. Having said all that, who among you thought about subscribing, but was put out by the price? What's the price tag that would get you to switch over to Mentor status? Edit: Just remembered something. Artists? Would you be ok with the Roll20 team taking a little cut in the sales of your art on Roll20?
I am not sure that it is the price only that keeps peoples away from subscribing. For me, it is rather the impossibility to pay through paypal. Btw, I am still wondering why? It seems that there is an explanation on the mentors forum (that seems also illogical, because mentors have already paid using the present system, it is more peoples on this forum that would be interested by the explanation).
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Gid
Roll20 Team
You omitted the biggest incentive (at least, in my eyes) for enrolling as a Mentor - access to the developer server. That's where we place alpha/beta builds of new and updated features. The Mentor forum is where we gather input on these features before we finalize them and push them out to the public. Right now Mentors on the developer server are playing with dynamic lighting, mobile support, character sheets and attribute variables and macros. Did you miss the $50/year Supporter subscription plan we also offer? While it doesn't have as many perks as Mentors status, it does get rid of your ads, gives you 1,000 MB, and unlimited active listings in LFG.
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Gid
Roll20 Team
Patrick, what got said in the Mentors forum is the same thing we said in the public forums . Paypal is really problematic for subscription payments. It's for this reason we've been hesitant to use them as a payment option.
I wasn't really clear, I do see how this is a huge incentive, and it's why I do want to get Mentor status. What I am saying is 100$ for it is a lot more than I'm willing to pay for. And I believe I am not the only one that thought about subscribing, but didn't in the end because of the high price. The thing is, Dev Access would be nice, but Roll20, the free version, is pretty good already and Dynamic Lighting and mobile support aren't things most people will require, hence making 100$ a pretty high price for what is essentially sugar coating. I'm just thinking lower prices in general tend to get more people to buy, more frequently. Maybe looking at Free-to-Play games and iOS apps with in-app purchases would help with getting something that could get you guys a better income.
1353842641
Gid
Roll20 Team
We've only had the subscription service up for about three months now. We're going to give it more time to settle. When we have more of a metric base to look at, we'll see if there's enough reason to change the subscription plan. It ultimately comes down to if the Mentor package gives you, personally, enough incentive to pay the entrance price. If it doesn't, then it doesn't. There's nothing wrong with that. We still offer a great base package for users who don't feel like Supporter/Mentorship is for them. For some users, the Mentor package offers specific bells and whistles that they feel are worth the price.
Patrick, what got said in the Mentors forum is the same thing we said in the public forums . Paypal is really problematic for subscription payments. It's for this reason we've been hesitant to use them as a payment option. Sorry Kristin, I thought that there was an explanation on mentor's forum as to why it is problematic for subscriptions payments. Basically, PayPal is an awful, horrible beast to deal with in terms of subscriptions. is not that much of an explanation.
Paypal in general is horrible to deal with.
Patrick C. said, Sorry Kristin, I thought that there was an explanation on mentor's forum as to why it is problematic for subscriptions payments. Basically, PayPal is an awful, horrible beast to deal with in terms of subscriptions. is not that much of an explanation. What we have seen in the Mentors forum isn't a detailed explanation, but what has been said there makes it clear to us that there will not be a PayPal option for subscribing to Roll20.
Let's clear up a whole slew of misconceptions. 1) Essentially the belief that "this isn't working". We would wildly disagree. Remember, the supporter bar... "Shows relative number of current subscribers, versus what's needed to run the service." So, we're regularly adding free users, and we're adding subscribers at a faster RATE than the free users for the bar to be growing. Tomorrow marks the beginning of the tenth week of subscriptions, and the bar is moving nicely into the second section marked "allows us to work on Roll20 in our spare time". Which means we're passing the threshold where if things continue as they have (and we have no reason yet to believe they won't), we as developers are able to safely make some money from Roll20 instead of setting it all aside for future operating costs. 2) The "PayPal" question. I'm not sure where we talked about this on the Mentor forums (feel free to correct me), but I do believe we've discussed this publicly and on the supporter podcast-- PayPal is the worst. As a developer, it's a nightmare. It's not setup for subscriptions (programming it for recurring transactions is not at all stable), its customer service is dreadful, and it gives us very little ability to automatically track what's going on. What we're selling at Roll20 is software as a service... and you expect it to be running in the future, right? Which means we need to be able to plan and to track in-house; how many of what sorts of subscriptions are active, bringing in what sort of income? PayPal is AWFUL to deal with, and we are NOT alone in this opinion. Businesses as large as Blizzard still have a great deal of restrictions on their PayPal use, particularly internationally. We have no desire to have our small team spend our time chasing these problems. Stripe, on the other hand, has been fantastic. They're a joy to work with, easy to program for, AND they are incredibly secure (seriously... go Googling to hunt for Stripe being breached). So, this is where we stand now and for the foreseeable future. 3) "This service costs too much." I don't own Apple products, because I think they cost too much. Others obviously disagree with me. There's never going to be a cost that works for everyone. That said, a growing amount of people seem to be okay with our pricing outline thus far AND we have every intention to sweeten the pot. The phrase you'll see us use again and again is "no brainer"-- we want this subscription to be an obvious choice for a plethora of gamers. But, again, the subscriptions have only been active for ten weeks. We did not expect to be perfect for everyone in that time. And we also don't want anyone to be paying for our service that doesn't think it's right for them yet. So you are welcome to wait, as we continue to improve Roll20. And, as an aside, artists on the Marketplace are already contributing a percentage of sales to Roll20. While that percentage is not much in our grand scheme of things, we think that keeping artists happy and well paid means more content for the community and we are pleased with that business model thus far. All that said, are we looking for ways to make more money? Sure. I don't have a yacht yet, dammit. But I didn't expect one at this point, and things are progressing according to a plan. If you don't like the plan, there are lots of other virtual tabletops out there. I don't think any of them are as easy to use and I'm certain none of them have as robust and growing a community. But they're there. Over here-- we're going to stick to our plan first and foremost, and then listen to those who are already paying us as a close second concern. Beyond that, those who are actively taking time to complain about pricing are only taking away time in my day that could be spent on bettering Roll20.
Since you said you are looking for ways to make more money I have a couple of suggestions. Bitcoins instead of Paypal. Bitcoin-Central <a href="https://www.bitcoin-central.net/" rel="nofollow">https://www.bitcoin-central.net/</a> reciently just got regulated as a bank in Europe though there seems to be no barriers to opening an account for international users. Also because Bitcoins are growing quickly in use yet stuff to buy with them are still rare you would have a monopoly on those wanting to spend Bitcoins on a VTT. Every day dealing with/in Bitcoins becomes easier and is a perfect replacement for Paypal that everyone can participate in. If you require help setting all this up I can find you plenty of links, just drop me an email. Another thing you could do would be to implement a "pay what you want" option for the store. I am planing on making several maps for ships, boats, pirate coves, etc, from scratch (most are frustratingly unrealistic), and I plan to publish them under some sort of Creative Commons license (is this even an option?). I just love it when people take my work and modify it, but I would still like to get something for my efforts while not excluding those on a budget. Having a pay what you want nag screen before they download would keep me from having to set up my own payment/donation system, making it more than worthwhile to submit content to the store, as well as help you guys out (I'm broke and can't afford a sub) by providing more free content.
Just a quick comment here. To me, $100/year isn't that much. $8.33/ month is less than what I used to spend in gas to get to my regular game, plus I can spend my time hanging with my friends instead of driving alone. The reason I'm not a subscriber (yet) is that it's not obvious what the benefits are. I don't care about a "mentor" tag, I don't see the need to email the devs, and I don't need more space. However, I'm finding out that there are features available on the dev server that do appeal. I'm just not sure what's out there. Keep up the good work, and don't try to compete with anyone on price. Thank you for all your hard work and the vision to make this possible. I love it.
Dynamic Lighting, Linked Character Sheets & Tokens, Character Specific Macros (called Abilities) Worth it imo.
Jonathan, you should add the (still in alpha stage) mobile support to that too. :)
Eh... it should rightly be called tablet support. It would be impossible to play on my phone.
Eh... it should rightly be called tablet support. It would be impossible to play on my phone. Okay, that is true. But some folks have been clamoring for tablet support, so it's definitely a feature that could make the mentor account worth it for those people. :)
I would love for there to be a one time payment option. When Roll20 was in Kickstarter, I didn't have the money to contribute. But now, I'd be able to pay $50-100 to the service, I just wouldn't want my status to run out after a year. That seems a little pricey for any software that you're going to use on a long term basis. If I understand it right, that's basically what people who Kickstarted received. I wouldn't mind paying a higher cost once, rather than dealing with a subscription.