Weather Effects

Hey, just thought I'd throw out the suggestion of adding a weather effect layer. Stuff like snow and rain would be nice, along with stranger stuff like falling ash for volcanic areas, red or green rain for blood and acid, etc. I'm not really suggesting fully animated stuff, though that would be awesome, just an extra layer with a semi-transparent image to show weather. Love the system so far, hope you consider my suggestion!

Yeah, that's been requested already a few times, just fyi. :)

a world........of SPANDEX..... O.O Seriously though, weather effects like acid rain should be automatically tracked by round =X everyone gets a propted save vs the dc(toggled) or takes the damage....maybe even put in a AC tracking system while we are at it. AND LIGHTNING BOOMS, and fireballs, and a taco covered in lint.

I rolled a 20, that taco attacked yew.

Actually that level of automation is not and most likely will not ever be put into Roll20 per their most recent subscriber podcast.

I was being a smart*ss, thought the taco made that clear. =X

It occurs to me that an overlay layer would be good for more than just map items. It'd be excellent for spell templates and the like as well. An extra layer (maybe with a transparency slider?) could be very useful.

It is possible now to create these effects using existing resources, through, element manipulation, like resizing, applying auras, and using sound FX. But one thing lacking is some artistic person to create some good smoke, mist, and fog tokens. I have only found one green smoke token, which works alright for, well, green smoke or mist. Would be nice of someone could recolor it to white, gray, red, etc.

Brett R. said, Hey, just thought I'd throw out the suggestion of adding a weather effect layer. (. . .) As Jonathan the Black has said above, this has been discussed previously. For instance, you can check these threads: "Environmental" 3rd Map Layer (Transparency too?) <a href="http://community.roll20.net/discussion/3422/environmental-3rd-map-layer-transparency-too/p1" rel="nofollow">http://community.roll20.net/discussion/3422/environmental-3rd-map-layer-transparency-too/p1</a> Environmental Effects (Smoke) Suggestion <a href="http://community.roll20.net/discussion/2060/environmental-effects-smoke-suggestion/p1" rel="nofollow">http://community.roll20.net/discussion/2060/environmental-effects-smoke-suggestion/p1</a> Also, at the Mentor forum if you have access: REQ: Layer reorganization... <a href="http://community.roll20.net/discussion/3283/req-layer-reorganization-#Item_1" rel="nofollow">http://community.roll20.net/discussion/3283/req-layer-reorganization-#Item_1</a> Sarah A. said, It occurs to me that an overlay layer would be good for more than just map items. (. . .) I agree. It would add more versatility to the use of images in the Roll20 page canvases, for map purposes or for handling background and descriptive images with more options. It is possible now to create these effects using existing resources, through, element manipulation, like resizing, applying auras, and using sound FX. Of course you can place an Aura for a token and tell to your players: "this represents smoke". But for instance, if you place a smoke image intended as an overlay into a map, you'd need to place tokens over the smoke (spoiling the overlay effect . . .) or you will be unable to select them --you will select the smoke image/token/overlay instead. This was raised in the Environmental Effects (Smoke) Suggestion thread by @John_Marshall (I'm quoting from there): it dawned on me that this will get complicated when it comes time to use this set up. Selecting and moving tokens will inevitably end up dragging smoke around. Ideally the 'smoke' layer would sit on top of the other layers and not be selected. Tokens would move around 'under' the smoke. I was thinking of how to overcome this when a simple answer occurred to me. Diverse ways of locking tokens (making them unable to be selected/moved) or using an extra layer for handling this have been discussed in the aforementioned threads. But one thing lacking is some artistic person to create some good smoke, mist, and fog tokens. I have only found one green smoke token, which works alright for, well, green smoke or mist. Would be nice of someone could recolor it to white, gray, red, etc. I can make color variations of already existing smoke tokens easily. Perhaps you can send that green smoke token to me, then. Although creating new tokens would require more time and I'm lacking of it at the moment.

You can find the Green smoke token in the Library. I do see your point about the PC tokens having sit above the smoke effect so far I was able to manipulate everything without too much conflict but where this was done was a tighter underground cave setting, and yes I did have to sometimes move the smoke around to grab a token. That said, I guess it's not a video game (thank God), so sometimes imagination just needs to take over.

You can find the Green smoke token in the Library. So far I've found Smoke by Steel Rat: <a href="https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.d20.io/marketplace/4824/thumb.png?1339088006" rel="nofollow">https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.d20.io/marketplace/4824/thumb.png?1339088006</a> I used this smoke image By dblade - (<a href="http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSbwgjszMTPJCybBM8OBa5CI___afc-EzAt-xfTNAOkQwzBQ7lXablTI5nC" rel="nofollow">http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSbwgjszMTPJCybBM8OBa5CI___afc-EzAt-xfTNAOkQwzBQ7lXablTI5nC</a>) for making a screenshot about this suggestion for overlays in one of the threads mentioned above. That said, I guess it's not a video game (thank God), so sometimes imagination just needs to take over. Or it could be said "a miniatures game": In many senses, computer map (and token) making seems like the virtual analogue of traditional modelism. Some people sees modelism and miniatures as somewhat related to RPGs, while for others it has nothing to do . . . Having more role playing elements in view, displayed, instead mainly a map window (even if the Roll20 page's canvas can be also used for descriptive or mood enhancing images) would help with that, bringing again imagination to the forefront: when the very app dedicates so much space to the map window alone, people wants more map related features. To my mind it's a logical consequence, but still, I don't see this so far as reaching the point of being truly comparable to a video game. — I always have been using images for my role playing games, so I'm not opposed to implementing better ways for handling them. What I do (did) in this respect in a real face to face game? Sometimes just hanging the images in the frontal tab of my GM screen, and placing others as game handouts into the table's surface; also, with a TV aside and an Amiga 500 plugged on it, I did a good use of images during games long before the advent of Virtual Tabletops ;)

I like for my battlemaps to be atmospheric and interesting instead of just a grid to track position. That's why I want greater control over layers, token lighting, vision, etc. To make it better than tabletop gaming.

*booty slap on the black* well said kitteh.

You could also use an overlay layer for flying creatures, templates, or anything that you don't want to be accidentally selecting all the time... It would be useful for those who use maps and for those who are pushing for less map focused functions as well. Heck, you could use it for playing board games to potentially stash items like chips, cards and other doodads that you want easy access to. Having to lock and unlock tokens seems like it would be far more intrusive and time consuming than simply switching layers. Then again, I work with certain graphics programs a lot, so I tend to automatically think of things in layers anyway, so maybe that's just me? It really seems likely to be a big return on functionality for a small change -- though I've never programmed for HTML5 and I supposed it could be much more tricky to implement than it appears. I guess I can see it being an issue if you need to be placing things on that layer that players will need. That's something to consider since they really only have access to things on the token/object layer currently.

Obviously someone took my comment wrong, I'm not opposed to the use of visuals at all, in fact below are a few scenes from my real life campaign, and a shot of the actual tile sets I patterned my VTT tile sets on. These guys are offering this application for free, they continue to build it on it but folks just seem to want more and more special effects when in truth the number one issue should be STABILITY, followed by COMPATIBILITY, then bells and whistles. I'm sure I'm in the minority here but the main thing I found that sets this VTT apart is it's simplicity........................ And in a fantasy game, IMAGINATIONS are important :D

An extra layer is eaiser and less troublesome to implement in my opinion than complex token locking and click-through settings.

(. . .) then bells and whistles. [pun] But . . . I'm already using the Jukebox for these! [/pun] 'Seriously speaking', I believe what we are discussing are nuances

An extra layer is eaiser and less troublesome to implement in my opinion than complex token locking and click-through settings. Even if I'm not against an extra layer for overlays/environmental effects/flying creatures/treetops, let me say that merely enabling token locking could accomplish the same things and I can't think of it as being complex at all . . . unless you are planning to use a lot of locked images or tokens and to change their "locations" (to front, to back) very often! For token locking it would be enough to add the option to the current token contextual menu. Here is a "faked" screenshot of it: An additional issue here is that there is not only a request for an extra "Overlay" layer for the Roll20 app, but also another extra layer for "Objects" (like chests on the floor, rocks, carpets, tiles and other mapping objects). In my opinion that is too many layers in the Roll20 app (along with Dynamic Lighting there would be up to 6 different layers!), while enabling token locking can achieve the same without overloading the app. How exactly? By using the token contextual menu, you carry a locked image or token To Front , and then it's an Overlay/Weather effect/Treetop. And if you carry an image To Back , then it's an Object/Chest/Carpet/Map tile. Perhaps token locking is easier to implement than extra overlays. I don't know, but it seems to me less stressful for the app. Besides, part of my point here is that I prefer to see this implemented even in a very simple but also flexible way (such as token locking ) than wait a lot of time for the implementation of full fledged extra layers. In any case I don't mind hearing different opinions. What I think about this isn't carved into stone.

Token locking and having to remember whether something is moved to the front or move to the back is not easier than additional layers. More layers won't overload the app. HTML already has what is called a z-index. It's a single element that determines order of display. Higher numbers are on top, lower numbers are on bottom. I'm reasonably sure, based on my experience with HTML and CSS that z-index is a part of how objects are ordered and what layer they're on helps determine that. Token locking requires additional coding that doesn't already exist. Adding another layer has already been done (dynamic lighting). Essentially, moving to the layers I propose would involve re-using existing code. Finally, the other problem with token locking is selecting tokens. You have to be able to select the locked tokens to unlock them. However, to use them as a battlefield overlay like smoke from fireballs, cannon fire, burning hay bales, rain, snow, etc.... you're going to need to have it above the tokens and be able to select those tokens beneath it. That means you're going to need to be able to click "through" the overlay token. It would be like trying to select the map and move it while you're on the token layer. It just doesn't work. Additional layers are the best way to go for implementing weather/effect overlays and clickable objects (my pet project).

(. . .) HTML already has what is called a z-index. It's a single element that determines order of display. Higher numbers are on top, lower numbers are on bottom. I'm reasonably sure, based on my experience with HTML and CSS that z-index is a part of how objects are ordered and what layer they're on helps determine that. I wonder if the z-index doesn't apply equally to the current To Front / To Back dynamic followed by images and tokens in the Roll20 page canvas. Token locking requires additional coding that doesn't already exist. Adding another layer has already been done (dynamic lighting). Essentially, moving to the layers I propose would involve re-using existing code. I see token locking as another application of the already implemented "permissions": locking a token would turn it unmovable and unselectable for the GM, exactly like it happens when you don't have permission for a token. Finally, the other problem with token locking is selecting tokens. You have to be able to select the locked tokens to unlock them. Not necessarily, because locked tokens, being unselectable and unmovable, still can show the token contextual menu by right clicking upon them for choosing "unlock". (I know at least two VTTs handling locked tokens in this way.) However, to use them as a battlefield overlay like smoke from fireballs, cannon fire, burning hay bales, rain, snow, etc.... you're going to need to have it above the tokens and be able to select those tokens beneath it. That means you're going to need to be able to click "through" the overlay token. The way I see it, since locked images would be unmovable and unselectable, selecting and moving tokens under a locked image (such as an overlay) would be, in practice , the same thing than having the overlay image placed in an upper layer. — This said, I'm used to VTTs having a bottom layer, a middle layer and an upper layer, even if they aren't heavily focused on map features.

Returning to part of what Sarah A. said, You could also use an overlay layer for flying creatures, templates, or anything that you don't want to be accidentally selecting all the time... I can see how an additional "upper layer" would be useful for dynamically handling things such as flying creatures, while a token locking capability would allow to place locked weather/environmental effects in the same layer, making possible to handle both elements in that very layer without confusion. In this way, it would be possible to select flying creatures without accidentally selecting & moving locked weather effects/overlays/whatever is "up there". Because having weather effects in the same layer than flying creatures would result in the same problem raised by John Marshall: it dawned on me that this will get complicated when it comes time to use this set up. Selecting and moving tokens will inevitably end up dragging smoke around. Ideally the 'smoke' layer would sit on top of the other layers and not be selected. Tokens would move around 'under' the smoke. I was thinking of how to overcome this when a simple answer occurred to me. (quoted from <a href="http://community.roll20.net/discussion/2060/environmental-effects-smoke-suggestion/p1" rel="nofollow">http://community.roll20.net/discussion/2060/environmental-effects-smoke-suggestion/p1</a>) So, both an additional "upper layer" along with the capability of locking tokens makes sense to me.