[Pathfinder] Word Magic

I just came across the Word Magic part of the Ultimate Magic section of the system, and it simply blew my mind with the versatility and craziness that can occur due to it. I'd love to try it out, but I can't think of a very effective method of using it using them. I'm thinking a query system MIGHT work, but it could become messy. If anyone has any ideas on how they would go about this (API is welcome even though I don't have access to it because I do end up in a lot of PRO games). Plus, there would be the issue of the GM knowing all of the effects of the words (also part of the overall problem). I was thinking maybe having a handout(?) with the effects, but that too could get messy. >.< Thoughts, comments, suggestions, ridicule for bringing up this monstrosity... all are welcome.

Hmm, I could see an API that asks for each stage of the spell cast by API button (target ->effect->Boost1,2,3). Without API, I'd say make a BUNCH of spells with all of your favorite combinations of targets, effect, and boosters. I've been wanting to play a wordcaster for awhile and have thought about the best way to work with wordcasting. I think that the best way (even for a spont caster) is to draw up your favorite combinations and have those preset. You then only have to customize whatever comes up that you didn't plan for.

I would also recommend having a handout explaining your spells (that you predefined) so that if any question comes up, you can point the person to it.

@Scott But with doing something like that, you're also limiting yourself if you're a spont caster. I could see that being a 100% viable method for a prepper. I like the idea of being able to spont cast something when it's needed and not having to worry about whether or not I have it prepped. That's the whole appeal of a spont caster. I know that preppers have their place due to them getting the more powerful stuff (usually, since zards and sorcerers share spells). Wordcasting is probably one of the most OP things you can be, especially if you're a prepper, because you can do things normal casters can't do. But I still can't get over wanting to just get into a fight and be like "Oh crap. I was NOT expecting that giant to show up and pin us down. I think I'll Foos-Roh-Doh him to open up opportunities for everyone." as a bard or something (not going off the actual list, but you get the idea) or giving someone an extra turn/letting them take their turn early due to unexpected circumstances. I know I may seem like I'm hung up on spont casting, but I could also see being a cleric/druid/witch and having a resurrection style spell prepped so that they can rez multiple allies at once if they needed to, or to do a mass healing for 4d8 + 1*caster level while trying to fight off Lucifer or someone crazy like that, or using an energy damage effect word... fire off a few dozen energy beams to riddle things with holes (all of those were using a Boosted (meta word) Selected (target word) with an effect word). It's just such a crazy system that I don't think you should be limited as a spont. That's why I'm so frustrated/annoyed by not knowing how to go about Words of Power (official name, but I thing Word Magic makes a little more sense). @Pat I would make a handout with the effects of the Words I'd know (can't know too many as it's limited just like how many spells you can know) that way if we interpret the actual effects of the wordspell, we could discuss it and come to an agreement on how it'd work. @In General Maybe just a combination of a simple query system using the spell roll template and the handout. I think that might be the simplest solution for not outside of a (possibly) complex API. Example: Qwerty4132: ?{Meta| None, | Boost, Boosted | Careful,Careful | ... }?{Target| Barrier, Barrier | Burst, Burst | Cone, Cone | ,,, }?{Effect| Spark, Spark | Shock Arc, Shock Arc | ...} Spell Level: # SR:  Duration: Cast Time:  You get the idea. The effect would come from the hand out, but everything else would be simple enough to plug in. Could also leave that out. It'd be up for debate.

I understand qwerty, just trying to keep this aimed at " how to do this in roll20 " without spilling into the off-topic arena.

Hmm, good points, and honestly I haven't really thought about the possibilities of using roll20 to make wordcasting all it can be. I think maybe the best way is with some roll queries (not your crazy macro chaining queries though, although I do love those). Something like: &{template:pf_generic} {{character_name=@{character_name}}} {{character_id=@{character_id}}} {{subtitle}} {{name=Word Spell}} {{subtitle=subtitle}} {{Target Word=?{Target Word|Personal, Personal|Selected, Targets ?{Number of targets|1 } target|Line, Line text here} ?{Target Boost|Boost descriptions}}} {{Effect Word 1=?{Effect Word 1|Effect 1, Effect 1 description|Effect 2, Effect 2 description}}} {{Effect Word 2=?{Effect Word 2|Effect 1, Effect 1 description|Effect 2, Effect 2 description}}} {{Effect Word 3=?{Effect Word 3|Effect 1, Effect 1 description|Effect 2, Effect 2 description}}}

I know. I apologize if it seemed like I snapped a little. I had just learned about them today and I instantly tried thinking of ways to incorporate it into R20. I'm just a little excited about this kind of system. Of course... all of this doesn't really matter if a GM doesn't allow Word Magic in their games simply due to their complexity and/or difficulty of implementing into the R20 system. 

Heh, that is the part of word magic that is disappointing, the lack of acceptance by GM's/players and the lack of support from Paizo. Let me know if you find a game that is word magic friendly on Roll20. I'd be interested in applying too. EDIT: You may also want to post on the  pathfinder sheet thread 5 and see if Chris or Vince can think of a way to put it directly into the sheet.

Scott C. said: I think maybe the best way is with some roll queries (not your crazy macro chaining queries though, although I do love those). I wasn't planning on implementing that mess in for something simple like this. And even then, that is next to useless for people using the latest PF sheet because they built-in a button for attacks and spellbooks that'll bring up all spells/attacks. I'm happy they implemented those, but still sad that my hard work will probably be lost forever now. lol Scott C. said: Something like: &{template:pf_generic} {{character_name=@{character_name}}} {{character_id=@{character_id}}} {{subtitle}} {{name=Word Spell}} {{subtitle=subtitle}} {{Target Word=?{Target Word|Personal, Personal|Selected, Targets ?{Number of targets|1 } target|Line, Line text here} ?{Target Boost|Boost descriptions}}} {{Effect Word 1=?{Effect Word 1|Effect 1, Effect 1 description|Effect 2, Effect 2 description}}} {{Effect Word 2=?{Effect Word 2|Effect 1, Effect 1 description|Effect 2, Effect 2 description}}} {{Effect Word 3=?{Effect Word 3|Effect 1, Effect 1 description|Effect 2, Effect 2 description}}} The issue with that is that you'd need a way saying what the Effect Words are because if you use just the description, it could get messy. That's why I was thinking of using the Handouts in combination of the query system (which you know I've gotten to know fairly well).

qwerty4132 said: Scott C. said: I think maybe the best way is with some roll queries (not your crazy macro chaining queries though, although I do love those). I wasn't planning on implementing that mess in for something simple like this. And even then, that is next to useless for people using the latest PF sheet because they built-in a button for attacks and spellbooks that'll bring up all spells/attacks. I'm happy they implemented those, but still sad that my hard work will probably be lost forever now. lol Heh, maybe for pathfinder it is, but I'm finding it very useful for a non-pro game of The Strange a friend is running (keeping track of what I can do across recursions was a pain before hand) For my example macro; I wasn't so much thinking that you'd put the words description in the query. As I remember, almost all of the effect words have some nice flavor, but the meat is usually as simple as [[1d6]] acid damage. Maybe with an extra thing like can only use selected target word with it. I think that might be workable for adding into the query.

True. True. Would need some way of including SR and things like that. But cutting the effects into the potatoes of it could quite possibly make it work. Edit:  My work on the chain of command did help me understand how queries work and will surely help in the future. 

For these sort of setups, I usually start by figuring out how many possible variations can actually be created in an array or table format. ie:  1,1,1.  1,1,2. 1,2,1. Etc. if the results are less than 10 for each entry in the first column, you can create a relatively simple Token Abilitiy for each each dimension or "column" you have, using a drop down query to give you a "menu" for each.  Button 1, 1,1.   Button1,1,2. Button1,2,1, etc. depending on the possible result, this may be a little repetitive to setup initially, but the actual *difficulty* would be fairly light...just a lot of iterations. i can try to whip up something simple when I get a few min.  Can you share your character level or an indication of which power words you're going to be working with?

I haven't made a character that uses Word Magic, so just to get a general idea, I'd say a Lv 4 Bard or Druid with a +2 mod in their stat that goes for their spell casting. I'm not sure how hard that would make it.

So after reading up on the Power Words rules, this could adapt itself to drop-down macros fairly simply (albeit very repetative and tedious) There are three word types: Target (6) Meta (10) and Effect (Many).  With only 6 target words these would be your 6 separate buttons.  You would create six buttons for each Target Type, and fill in a Drop-Down query with the available  combinations known to you. Button1: "Personal" ?{Meta/Effect Combo: | Effect, Description of the single effect result | Effect1 + Effect2, Description of the two effects result | Boost + EffectName1, Description of Boost+effect1 results | Boost + EffectName2, Description of Boost+effect2 results etc. } Button2: "Selected" ?{Meta/Effect Combo: | Effect, Description of the single effect result | Effect1 + Effect2, Description of the two effects result | Boost + EffectName1, Description of Boost+effect1 results | Boost + EffectName2, Description of Boost+effect2 results ...etc. } Button3: "Barrier" ?{Meta/Effect Combo: ... etc As you learn new Meta and Effect words, you would add a new line to each of the 6 buttons for the new combos available. Like I said,  tedious as hell, but it would get the job done.

Yeah. That seems like it'd work pretty well. You'd have to tweak it a little to include the ability to Meta Target Words as well. Overall, it seems very similar to what Scott had suggested. Still... this is all dependent on whether or not a GM will allow Word Magic. It's still good to get this out there so that people can think about it. The simpler we can make Word Magic usage on here, the more likely GMs will allow it to be used.

Yeah, it takes a bit of front-loaded effort and some solid organization, but I use this method with the Pathfinder Sheet's built-in templates and character sheet field references to make my spell books (the built-in PF sheet spell lists are often too verbose for my tastes).&nbsp; This unholy mess is actually pretty easy to update and add on to by keeping a "template" in notepad and just filling in the blanks for name, pfsrd link, targets, range, save, SR, duration, and description, etc. (ignore the 'Wild Magic' subtitle , that's just a house rule for this particular campaign) (Mind the HTML replacements, I didn't bother correcting it for forum posts, but all the }} and such have to be replaced in this) &{template:pf_spell} {{color=darkblue}}{{name=?{Level3 Spells: | Dispel Magic, Dispel Magic: ***[Link]( <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/dispel-magic)***}&#125" rel="nofollow">http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/dispel-magic)***}&#125</a> ; {{subtitle=Concentration[[1d20+[[@{Concentration-0}]]]] WildMagic[[1d1000]]}} {{range=[[@{spellclass-0-medium}]] }} {{target=*Spell, Target, or Item*}} {{ Targeted [[1d20 + @{spellclass-0-level-total} ]]=***vs*** **Spell** *(11 + Spell's CL)*}} {{ Success=**Spell Ends**}} {{ Failure=**Target Next Spell**}} {{ Suppress [[1d20 + [[@{spellclass-0-level-total}]] ]]=***vs*** **Item** *(11+item CL)*}} {{ Suppress Duration=[[1d4]] *rds* | Fireball, Fireball: ***[Link]( <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/fireball)***}&#125" rel="nofollow">http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/fireball)***}&#125</a> ; {{subtitle=Concentration[[1d20+[[@{Concentration-0}]]]] WildMagic[[1d1000]]}} {{range=[[@{spellclass-0-long}]] }} {{target=[[20]] ft Radius}} {{sr=[[1d20 + [[@{spellclass-0-level-total}]] ]] }} {{DC=[[10 + 3[SL] + @{Int-mod}[INT] ]] **Ref (Half)**}} {{effect=[[10d6]] *Fire Dmg* • *Sets fire to combustibles* • *Damages unattended obj.*}} | Hold Person, Hold Person ***[Link]( <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/h/hold-person)***}&#125" rel="nofollow">http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/h/hold-person)***}&#125</a> ; {{subtitle=Concentration[[1d20+[[@{Concentration-0}]]]] WildMagic[[1d1000]]}} {{range=[[@{spellclass-0-medium}]] }} {{target=**Humanoid**}} {{duration=[[@{Level} ]] rounds}} {{sr=[[1d20 + [[@{spellclass-0-level-total}]] ]] }} {{ DC=[[10 + 3[SL] + @{Int-mod}[INT] +2[SF] ]] **Will (Neg)**}} {{effect=***[Paralyzed]( <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/conditions#TOC-Paralyzed)***" rel="nofollow">http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/conditions#TOC-Paralyzed)***</a> |Unadulterated Loathing, Unadulterated Loathing ***[Link]( <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/u/unadulterated-loathing)***}&#125" rel="nofollow">http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/u/unadulterated-loathing)***}&#125</a> ; {{subtitle=Concentration[[1d20+[[@{Concentration-0}]]]] WildMagic[[1d1000]]}} {{range=[[@{spellclass-0-close}]] }} {{target=**Creature**}} {{duration=[[@{Level} ]] days }} {{sr=[[1d20 + [[@{spellclass-0-level-total}]]]] }} {{DC=[[10 + 3[SL] + @{Int-mod}[INT] +2[SF] ]] **Will (Neg)**}} {{effect=• *Target keeps* ***60ft*** *away* • ***[Nauseated]( <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/conditions#TOC-Nauseated)***" rel="nofollow">http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/conditions#TOC-Nauseated)***</a> *if they move closer* | Twilight Knife, Twilight Knife ***[Link]( <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/twilight-knife)***}&#125" rel="nofollow">http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/twilight-knife)***}&#125</a> ; {{subtitle=Concentration[[1d20+[[@{Concentration-0}]]]] WildMagic[[1d1000]]}} {{range=[[@{spellclass-0-close}]] }} {{target=Force Dagger}} {{duration=[[@{Level} ]] rounds (D)}} {{sr=[[1d20 + [[@{spellclass-0-level-total}]]]] }} {{ Hit [[1d20cs&gt;19 + @{Int-mod}[Int] + @{BAB}[BAB] +0[WeaponBonus] ]] vs AC= for [[1d4 ]] dmg }} {{=***Sneak Attack***[[2d6]]}} {{ *Successful SR*=*Dispels Knife* } }}

One nice little trick I discovered is that you can put templates (with HTML conversions as well) into an Ability's macro text (Abilities under the Attributes & Abilities tab) and it'll keep everything as you put it in and saved it. So if you're wanting to make a huge global macro that has HTML conversions in it, but don't want to worry about where you saved it on your computer, you can just make a character named "Macro backups" (or whatever you want to name them) and make ability copies of the macros. It's very handy. And that macro is pretty badass. I might snatch it and tweak it to see if I can make it work for Word Magic.