Stroke widths for tokens?

Hi there! I am trying to draw a set of tokens, but I am running into a problem. My stroke lines look jagged unless I hike the stroke weight up to 20pt in Illustrator. I don't like the look of a stroke that heavy, though. I'd rather keep it around 10-14pt in weight. Please pardon the roughness of these screenshots. The token is still a WIP, I wanted to make sure it looked crisp and neat on Roll20 before I filled in all the details. Here is a scaled png of the token in progress: <a href="http://imgur.com/G2xWpDt" rel="nofollow">http://imgur.com/G2xWpDt</a> And here is a screencap of my progress on the VTT (various weights and a slight blurs applied): <a href="http://prntscr.com/cy5vmz" rel="nofollow">http://prntscr.com/cy5vmz</a> I put some tokens by Devin Knight in the frame to reference the kind of strokes I want. His outlines are so smooth and not too heavy. Does anyone have any tips for getting a good outline stroke on their tokens?

It looks like what you're missing is antialiasing. &nbsp;I don't know how that's handled in Illustrator, but you should be able to enable it when you export from the native vector format to a bitmap format like PNG.

Thanks for replying, Aaron. Antialiasing is on both in Illustrator & Photoshop. The png itself has fairly smooth lines, imo. The preview for the token in my library looks great: <a href="http://prntscr.com/cyanc2" rel="nofollow">http://prntscr.com/cyanc2</a> It's when I move it onto the VTT and it's scaled down that it gets jagged. Know of any tips I can incorporate while drawing the tokens that will prevent this?

What size are you exporting it to? &nbsp;It could be that the scaling used by Roll20 to get it in thumbnail size is causing some issues...

Good question. I've tried a variety of sizes, but kept the proportions square. I've tried 500x500px, 300x300px, 240x240px, and 200x200px. The best image practices thread didn't specify image dimensions for tokens, just stressed the importance of padding. I think that by making the image proportions square, it should fit without any warping issues on a grid. But maybe I'm wrong?

Seen?:&nbsp; <a href="https://wiki.roll20.net/Image_Best_Practices_for_R" rel="nofollow">https://wiki.roll20.net/Image_Best_Practices_for_R</a>... Try 140x140 or 280x280 for your token and see how it goes.

If you want to PM me a link to your exported token, I can compare it to one of Devin's latests and see if there's something different in the format. &nbsp;Are you exporting a full 32-bit PNG? Here's the format details on Devin's newest token: &gt; identify -verbose 93842-F_Human_Alchemist.png Image: 93842-F_Human_Alchemist.png &nbsp; Format: PNG (Portable Network Graphics) &nbsp; Mime type: image/png &nbsp; Class: DirectClass &nbsp; Geometry: 400x398+0+0 &nbsp; Units: Undefined &nbsp; Type: TrueColorAlpha &nbsp; Endianess: Undefined &nbsp; Colorspace: sRGB &nbsp; Depth: 8-bit &nbsp; Channel depth: &nbsp; &nbsp; red: 8-bit &nbsp; &nbsp; green: 8-bit &nbsp; &nbsp; blue: 8-bit &nbsp; &nbsp; alpha: 8-bit &nbsp; Channel statistics: &nbsp; &nbsp; Pixels: 159200 &nbsp; &nbsp; Red: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; min: 0 (0) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; max: 255 (1) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; mean: 86.2237 (0.338132) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; standard deviation: 98.8375 (0.387598) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; kurtosis: -0.939539 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; skewness: 0.799833 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; entropy: 0.595534 &nbsp; &nbsp; Green: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; min: 0 (0) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; max: 255 (1) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; mean: 84.0634 (0.329661) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; standard deviation: 98.3983 (0.385876) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; kurtosis: -0.837234 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; skewness: 0.860139 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; entropy: 0.590053 &nbsp; &nbsp; Blue: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; min: 0 (0) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; max: 255 (1) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; mean: 80.6455 (0.316257) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; standard deviation: 98.5195 (0.386351) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; kurtosis: -0.721537 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; skewness: 0.949546 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; entropy: 0.582462 &nbsp; &nbsp; Alpha: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; min: 0 (0) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; max: 255 (1) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; mean: 112.343 (0.440559) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; standard deviation: 121.544 (0.476643) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; kurtosis: -1.86288 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; skewness: -0.256477 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; entropy: 0.275389 &nbsp; Image statistics: &nbsp; &nbsp; Overall: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; min: 0 (0) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; max: 255 (1) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; mean: 98.3975 (0.385873) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; standard deviation: 104.798 (0.410971) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; kurtosis: -1.24192 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; skewness: 0.605389 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; entropy: 0.510859 &nbsp; Alpha: srgba(255,255,255,0) &nbsp; #FFFFFF00 &nbsp; Rendering intent: Perceptual &nbsp; Gamma: 0.454545 &nbsp; Chromaticity: &nbsp; &nbsp; red primary: (0.64,0.33) &nbsp; &nbsp; green primary: (0.3,0.6) &nbsp; &nbsp; blue primary: (0.15,0.06) &nbsp; &nbsp; white point: (0.3127,0.329) &nbsp; Background color: white &nbsp; Border color: srgba(223,223,223,1) &nbsp; Matte color: grey74 &nbsp; Transparent color: none &nbsp; Interlace: None &nbsp; Intensity: Undefined &nbsp; Compose: Over &nbsp; Page geometry: 400x398+0+0 &nbsp; Dispose: Undefined &nbsp; Iterations: 0 &nbsp; Compression: Zip &nbsp; Orientation: Undefined &nbsp; Properties: &nbsp; &nbsp; date:create: 2016-10-24T11:55:33-04:00 &nbsp; &nbsp; date:modify: 2016-10-19T14:51:26-04:00 &nbsp; &nbsp; png:IHDR.bit-depth-orig: 8 &nbsp; &nbsp; png:IHDR.bit_depth: 8 &nbsp; &nbsp; png:IHDR.color-type-orig: 6 &nbsp; &nbsp; png:IHDR.color_type: 6 (RGBA) &nbsp; &nbsp; png:IHDR.interlace_method: 0 (Not interlaced) &nbsp; &nbsp; png:IHDR.width,height: 400, 398 &nbsp; &nbsp; png:sRGB: intent=0 (Perceptual Intent) &nbsp; &nbsp; png:text: 1 tEXt/zTXt/iTXt chunks were found &nbsp; &nbsp; signature: 61b57bba2712a82254ca94cbf2ed78e40acfc081a2d892b9ecaeede25be7502c &nbsp; &nbsp; Software: Adobe ImageReady &nbsp; Artifacts: &nbsp; &nbsp; filename: 93842-F_Human_Alchemist.png &nbsp; &nbsp; verbose: true &nbsp; Tainted: False &nbsp; Filesize: 172KB &nbsp; Number pixels: 159K &nbsp; Pixels per second: 15.92MB &nbsp; User time: 0.000u &nbsp; Elapsed time: 0:01.009 &nbsp; Version: ImageMagick 6.9.6-2 Q16 x86_64 2016-10-11 <a href="http://www.imagemagick.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.imagemagick.org</a>

I saw that thread but didn't see a set size under the token section, just: Token images, due to their small size, are probably best suited for PNG formats (if you want transparency) for best quality. If you’re not relying on a square or hex grid to move tokens about the tabletop, you don’t need to concern yourself about the actual dimensions of the image. If you are using a grid; however, you’ll want to make sure your image has enough transparent padding. The reason for doing this is that an image when dropped onto a gridded tabletop will warp the dimensions of the image to best sit inside a single grid unit. This process might dramatically change the proportions of your image. For instance, if you're using tokens that fill a 1 x 1, 2 x 2 or 3 x 3 unit space, you'll want to make sure that the final dimensions of the image are the same for both height and width. If you have an oblong token, you'll want to make sure that the final dimension's of either the width or height is exactly double or perhaps triple of the other. I will try those dimensions and see if they work any better.

Just comparing close up, it looks like Devin has much more shading next to his lines. &nbsp;I'm pretty sure he's painting directly in a bitmap program. &nbsp;His anti-aliasing seems to be larger too. &nbsp;If you have a way to make the lines "softer", that might help.

I notice Devin is using 400x400 nominally as his size, so just going square is probably fine.

280px squared was jagged, but 140px seems to work better. There's a little jaggedness left, but it's barely noticeable. I'll play around with gaussian blurs to see if that'll fix the rest. Thanks for your help! Edit to add: We keep posting near the same time, so I missed your last two replies! Sorry about that. Drawing directly in photoshop is a good idea. I'll try that, too!

Meg, visit this link to a group discussion among Roll20 Marketplace artists, <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/3943246/marketpl" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/3943246/marketpl</a>...

If it helps I work on a 7in x 7in canvas in Photoshop at 300ppi. When I'm done I reduce the token to 400px x 400px. I use a 6 point stroke when I draw. I used to ink things by hand, then take them into Illustrator to streamline them. Then into PS for coloring. Now I just do it all in PS, it's a lot faster.

Thank you for the link, Gold! I haven't sold anything on the marketplace, though, is that alright? @Devin, that's immensely useful information. I love your token artwork, so it's great to hear your technique. I'll definitely use those settings going forward! Much appreciated, everyone, thanks for all the help!

Is there a reason you're sticking to Illustrator? For your style, a simple shift to either photoshop or Manga Studio may be your simplest solution.

Of course, Badger! :) I start in Illustrator and finish in Photoshop for a few reasons. The list is kind of long, actually. Most importantly, I have a slight tremor, which is barely even noticeable to me unless I am trying to draw or hold my hand steady. Illustrator corrects my shaky lines automatically, but my photoshop lines are a jagged mess.&nbsp; I also like the brush-to-path in illustrator better than photoshop's freehand pen tool. It doesn't create as many stray anchor points, in my opinion, and sticks pretty accurately to the shape I drew. When laying down basic shapes like arms, legs, heads, and torsos, I like being able to click directly on the canvas to select paths. I can quickly change the weight, color, & even the brush I originally drew a stroke or fill with. It is also easier to add an effect to a path in Illustrator . In Photoshop, I have to find the layer the path was filled or stroked onto, change it to a smart object in case I want to change it later, then apply the effect. in Illustrator I can just click the path and apply the effect. If I don't like it, I can ctrl+d the path to clear it up. Finally, I just dislike the paths panel in Photoshop. I think it's clunky. It requires you to name a path just to keep it (like a puppy), and once a path has been selected it is hard to deselect it (like if you want to quickly preview your shape without path lines and anchor boxes all up in your business). So for me, it is easier to get the outlines, fills, and generalized details done in Illustrator, then export it as a PSD to photoshop when I am ready to add detail. edited for: my phone's autocorrecting nonsense

Great points, Meg. I've been using Illustrator since '88, Photoshop nearly as long. Each has their strengths, and I use them in concert on most freelance projects. One thing I've been doing on tokens is adding a very slight outer glow (black, multiply) to the entire figure. It's subtle, and it softens the containing line, but really helps the whole thing stand out from the background.

Thank you, Keith, that's an excellent tip! I'll use that, too.