Problems with committing

I know this site is relatively new and all, but I'm not the only one that has had experiences with group dates fall through right? So far in the group that I was invited too and one I was already "in" one day it all just falls through. No one talks anymore, the DMs don't say anything. The first time we were supposed to play in the group I was officially in, no one was there, including the DM. The other one I was invited too but hadn't "Joined" yet, eventually I was no longer getting responses from the supposed DM of the group and once again that fell through. Is this a problem for a lot of people? Or am I just unfortunate? If its the former I think there should be something like a calendar implemented in our profiles where we set our own personal dates and times of availability so everyone can tell if a groups time works for them and something that everyone can physically see instead of what just is said in the comments or forums. Complete with the timezone they live in and a view of what time it is there now (if that is a possible). While this wouldn't keep people from just not showing up I believe it would add more of a personal accountability to it. Of course this isn't fool proof. People have changes in schedule and sometimes they are unable to arrive at one of this free times because of an appointment, emergency, and etc. But so far from my current experiences not only is it difficult to find a group with the kind of traffic there is so far, but it seems like its difficult to find a group that will commit the time and day they all agree on to play. Anyway there is my two cents, I hope I got my point across, thanks guys. Shane

I kinda like where you were going with this. Like on XBOX Live, there's an option where players can up-vote or down-vote each other. That way GMs could "interview" players as they apply. Now, granted this service is free and if players already had bad stigma on their profile, they could just create a new one. Adding Timezones would be a great help, though!

This is a problem that stretches all across the online communities. Before coming to roll20 I use to play/run on Traipse/Openrpg and watched groups fall apart without warning. It has been suggested to me before that the fact that you are just an anonymous person and can get away with this type of rudeness. It's not like you are going to see this person again in your local store where you can ask them why did they ditch the game. All you can do is try and try again. It has taken me years to build a small core group of players but these players are ones that I know will show up if they say they will. Occasionally one will miss a session but that is due to real life issues and most if not all let me know ahead of time about missing a session. On the forum that I hang out on the most is where I know I can find someone to play a game with because it feels like a group of friends hanging out together. Let's hope these forums will get that way also. It would be nice if they could have a forum board for campaign talk. This would let various groups have their own boards to talk about their games and post excepts or other things back and forth amongst each other.

I've found that in all the places I've lived, RPG groups often dissolve for no apparent reason. The only group I was ever a part of that was solid was when I was in the Army. We were always together, so we just played when we didn't have something else to do. I've known a few other long term groups, even though I wasn't a part of them, but over all, I see groups spring up, then die, over and over. Once you get that long term group, hang on to it, as it's a rare emerald.

I believe it all comes down to a DM. He/she is the one that's organizing the event and the date it takes place. I think that you may be unfortunate and maybe you should try to be a DM/GM yourself and get people together. One tip: Don't be unrealistic with your meeting times. If you want to meet once or twice every week for 4-5+hours, then you'll likely see group dropoff rate very fast. My best advice for anyone viewing this is to communicate first. Trade emails and if someone isn't responding within a reasonable time...kick them and search for new people. There are tons of players on here. Personally, I've been DMing a group since July. It started as a test run and turned into a campaign. Two out of the original four are in it, and we've added new people along the way to fill in. We took a break from November to until just a few days ago. If you have a gmail account, try to make use of the Gmail calender. Another tip: If you think you prob. wouldn't be, at the least, acquaintances with someone in rel life...then you should either find another group or just tell the person he/she isn't a good fit. A lot of how successful any campaign is, face to face or with Roll20, depends on chemistry. I hope some of this helps.

I feel your 'pain'. Stable, reliable people first, particulars seconds. Example: Not a fan of 3.X stuff by and large, but providing there's no prereq of buying/stealing the PFRPG equivalent of the Library of Alexandria, I'll play ball, if the people aren't flakes, have a workable willingness to meet base communications requirements, and will follow through. On this basis, given time, we can eventually play a 'better' (mostly subjective) game. Otherwise, you don't play anything. 800lb RPGorillas eat a lot. It is advisable to throw it a banana from time to time. Also known in some circles as "Let the wookie win." The downside of the 800lb ape is if you are running this monster, the more mercenary and fickle will go pet someone else's at the drop of a hat.

@ Matt : Actually I have to disagree with the statement of it all comes down to the DM. I feel it actually comes down to people in general. There are GM's that are not worth making an effort to play their game and there are players that are not worth the effort of keeping a game running for. @ OP Tip 1 is a good suggestion about meeting times. I know of a group that meets twice a week for 4-5 hrs each time and they have fun. I know of another group that meets every other week for 3 hrs then during the in between time they use a play by post setting to move the game along. What is needed is what he said about communication. That is a must have prior to any game, either through email, instant messenger, or a forum board. Tip 2 is a solid tip to use. I've walked away from games before because of the chemistry between me and the GM. I've asked players to leave my games before because their playstyle was not something I wanted in my games. A person has to find a group that plays in the similar manner that is enjoyable to them. If you like to min/max your character and the DM or the other players don't then you will be unhappy. If you love the roleplaying aspect of the game but everyone else is all about the combat, you will be unhappy. This also applies to the GM of the game. If they like to run style X and everyone else likes style Y then that game will not last because everyone will drop out or the GM will drop out due to frustration. Sorry for the rant and ramble but just remember you are not alone. Alot of us have gone through what you have already and can share tips and suggestions, even point you towards groups sometimes. Thanks for this thread.

I think chemistry is very important. Some people just don't get on well, and sometimes over the internet, the conflicting traits don't express themselves as well or as much. I think a lot of people are more likely to just drop from a game rather than discuss or make an issue out of it.

It all seems really unfortunate, especially when you have cats that have a depressing amount of free time that would love to get on with a core group... cough cough. I'm actually having problems the other way around though, I can't find a campaign to get into. Maybe I'm overestimating the size of the site or committing some atrocity of a faux-pas or something, but I'm applying to several games at once, not wanting to overextend myself, and not getting any sort of response whatsoever. E: Starting to feel as though I should just carpet bomb the site with any game I'm interested in, but I worry that a week from now all these people will appear out of nowhere and be asking me where I'm at, haha.

Add/clarification: The following are examples of the clarification process, which helps in identifying the various types of gamers, and games. Recommend inclusion in game descriptions. <a href="http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/gaming/BreakdownOfRPGPlayers.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/gaming/BreakdownOfRPGPlayers.html</a> <a href="http://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/theory/models/robinslaws.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/theory/models/robinslaws.html</a> <a href="http://quizfarm.com/quizzes/do+you+liketo+get+into+wars+with+your+character/CharlesRyan/what-rpg-player-not-character-type-are-you/" rel="nofollow">http://quizfarm.com/quizzes/do+you+liketo+get+into+wars+with+your+character/CharlesRyan/what-rpg-player-not-character-type-are-you/</a> <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlayerArchetypes" rel="nofollow">http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlayerArchetypes</a> <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?331599-The-Ten-RPG-Player-Types" rel="nofollow">http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?331599-The-Ten-RPG-Player-Types</a> Gets old speaking to the wind. If someone with more site influence finds the above and similar useful, advise posting as suggestion / idea, perhaps as a gamer matching service ala 'D harmony dot com'. In a 'perfect world', arguably, everyone is of the same type. Practically though, there are left and right limits, you won't be able to pick and choose, and so compromise is in order, and often leads in directions better than projected. At the extremes though, some people just aren't going to fit no matter what. Example: As a 'GM', I'm a rules minimalist. I won't fit well w/a munchkin type, who gets great joy at breaking a game that is rock simple and so nigh impervious to breakage. Separate ways time. Example counter re: "perfect world" A group full of drama queens often leads to perpetual upstaging, snark, IRL politics etc etc. Everyone wants to be top bill, sheesh. "How do I love me, let me count the ways...."

@T.M. : Roflmao. So true about the drama queens and I totally agree with the assessment about Munchkins. I'm not quite the rules minimalist as you indicate you are but I'm close to it. I thought these sites like Roll20 and other places are the D harmony for us gamers to find each other. lol. Do you think we should put our zodiacs, likes, dislikes and such in our profiles to help people see if they are compatible with each other? :)

@Metro...those could be some scary profiles...lol

very true.... lol

It's in the nature of the beast- the anonymity afforded by the Internet. They type of situation is even more persuasive and profound in the arena of Play-by-Post gaming. A few years back I thought that PbP gaming would be the answer to my gaming dilemma and jumped in with both feet first. As a player I quickly learned that most PbP games dissolve rather quickly and for no apparent reason. I tried my hand at GMing PbP games but became frustrated with this very issue from players. Also, I didn't like the fact that I always felt like I was nagging people by sending requests for them to do what they agreed to do by joining the game- posting regularly. After a several year run of trying PbP gaming, I have come to the conclusion that it's not for me. It's not because I didn't enjoy it or couldn't wrap my mind around the different pace, but, rather, it was because people eventually would just give up the game (either players or the GM) and this frustrated me to no end.

I think a reputation system would be best. Something determined in combination with what users say and vote about them, at the same time with the ability to build back up a rep. I don't know honestly. I would hope something like this gets put in to address this anonymity, and I'm sure we are all guilty of doing something similar at some point on all our time on the internet. Hopefully the devs will be able to put something in at some point hence why I supported this site almost immediately even though I have yet to actually play lol..

i think the main problem for me in pbp RPG online, is the fact that there is no friendship, just meeting there to role-play and not socialize makes it boring for me. i have had some amazing campaigns and i have dropped them, and i play some really bad campaigns and i still play them. just because the friendship factor. to me rpg is not about being someone else. is more like making histories together with friends. if i want to have some fantasy and not friendship id play videogames.

There's a couple issues at play here. One, flaking out isn't unique to Roll20 or even the internet. Any time you have people gathering for hobbies, there's going to be an ebb and flow as people drop in and drop out. Since the number needed to have a gaming group is small - well below the critical mass needed to sustain a club or any other endeavor - getting a session together is going to be tricky, very hit & miss and prone to flame out; regardless of whether it takes place in meatspace or cyberspace. How many of our long term gaming groups were more due to everyone being in school, work or something else and the gaming was just a side effect of that? Probably most of them. Two, Roll20 is a nascent community powered by a developing technology. I have a hunch that most active gaming groups originated somewhere else and have migrated over to Roll20 because its awesome, they didn't start in the forums here and blossom of their own accord. In any case, using these forums alone aren't likely to be the solution to your problems. OK, so what? EXPAND YOUR HORIZONS, internet style. Try to get involved in websites (other than Roll20) that support the hobby in general and games you want to play in particular. Check out <a href="http://www.therpgsite.com" rel="nofollow">www.therpgsite.com</a> or rpg.net for general gaming. Like Pathfinder? Paizo has forums and people looking for games. Like Gurps? Send me a PM, then go to sjgames.com for their forums and game finders. I've heard about people finding good groups through Google+ or Facebook, try those too. And when you're out at those other sites, tell people how good Roll20 is at what it does, so that more people come over here and then we can use the LFG forums for what they're intended for. Know someone at work who might be interested? Ask them. Track down those former game buddies of yours from way back when. EXPAND YOUR HORIZONS, personal style. Can't find a GM willing to run a game? Consider running one yourself. We (GMs that is) all started out with no experience at some point. People are clamoring for an opportunity to play a game, go ahead and take a chance. Otherwise, consider playing in a different game than just Pathfinder or D&D...there's other types of games happening every day here. Too much work? Then at least help out the people who are looking to GM a good game. Post in the LFG section with your name, your availability and what games you're willing to play. Tell a little about you (the player) and don't worry about this great character idea you have (yet). Answer any questions you might get and ask any you might have. Don't be afraid to go "that's not what I'm looking for." Don't be afraid to bump your own post, either - there's no guarantee the person you want to see your post saw it. Make an effort to seem like a good investment for a GM. It's like dating. It's a numbers game, go out and try because success is worth it. A calendar or reputation system isn't going to solve the bigger problems, its just going to get in some people's way.

@MK. Soooo.... what are you gaming later? Pretty sweet lookin' icon you got there. Did your character get that mead my character sent earlier? All kidding aside, I'm speaking of gamer and game profiling. Like actual stories, as opposed to 'tales' which are what most if not all games end up being, the better ones a necessary mix of approaches, motivations etc. Arguably (of course) the real ground breakers (D&D, Magic, Cattan etc) have a primary color, archetypal quality that resonated on some level, usually the unconscious, that contributed significantly to their surviving obscurity. Perfect process? No. Significantly increase the likelihood of a more immediate win/win? Yes. Potential niche for the site? Yes. Tighten up the searches? Yes. If nothing else, the "(x) looking for (y)" would be much more precise. Contract w/the (reader/player/audience) Truth in advertising.

The avatar is something I found a few years ago. I forget what video game it was captured from. I play in a Marvel/DC pbp game while I also run a pbp game called Western Lands Campaign. I'm also running a game on roll20. The pbp and the roll20 game uses the BasicFantasy RPG system aka BFRPG. The pbp game is semi heavily houseruled while the roll20 game is almost pure core rules. So what type of stories do you want to hear about and what do you offer in stories? An interesting one that I remember is the wife of a friend got introduced to D&D. She never played before so I used her to rp some npc's. She truly got into the spirit of the characters. Let me think of a specific instance.... I took Dawn to another room and explained the persona (what I called the npc's) and went back to the game. I introduced the npc into the game by just stating that the npc entered the tavern. Dawn strutted into the room and just took over the scene (what I called that particular section of the game). I told her that picture the npc as a slutty california valley girl and run with it. What she did made me upset that she was married but also glad she chose her husband to focus on. Let's just say that a roomful of gamers had to take a step outside in the middle of winter to cool off. She didn't do anything indecent but the way she portrayed the npc was memorable. I kept using her for npc's until she got comfortable enough to join the group as a player. She stuck with my games till the group broke up due to life and I moved away. Last I heard she still games and has introduced her two kids to gaming also. Is that what you were talking about for stories?

I'd call that a brief but compelling tale. Stories are representations of the problem solving process, with different characters representing the differing basic approaches to solving said problem or type of problem. The more common, less complex, but more readily accessible story would be that utilizing archetypes, as I referred to previously. There are several models of story, saying essentially the same things with greater or lesser detail, placing emphasis on particular points. I don't know that I offer anything of note in stories. Writing isn't that hard. Writing well is another matter. Bells and whistles get tiresome and boring, and a bit annoying when overused. Tend to be the go-to though, like midgets, farts, and shots to the taint.

As someone whos ran and played several games over the years via Maptool, I openly admit that I'm scoping out R20 as developments really have slowed to a crawl for the former. I'm also trying to ween myself away from Windows onto Linux, which further adds to my reasoning to try R20. (Much less hassle than trying to get Maptool to work on a Linux distro.) I suspect that for many, people just want to try the toolset (since it's the new kid on the VT block). The same was true for Maptool roughly 3-4 years ago. Of course, by that time, people had already built frameworks for alot of different games to take care of the heavy lifting in terms of calculating. While an awesome development, it did add to the learning curve, which was a turn-off for alot of people who aren't highly tech/programmer savvy. As for me personally, I'm still on the fence. I like the simplicity and ease of hosting (something Maptool has had known issues about) but miss the functionality. Understandably, R20 is new. I'm willing to be patient, but I would really like to see some campaign files of the more common rulesets out there made onto here. I'm really not happy about how certain features are restricted to subscriptions. I won't pay for that when I can get the exact same features elsewhere for free.

The subscription is worth it since all this is hosted on their servers and is very easy to connect to unlike maptool a lot of the time. The fees help pay for those server costs so that people like you are able to use it free of charge. We that subscribe are rewarded for paying those fees with features above and beyond what is available for free.

"This site is eh. I'll wait and see if it gets better." "We are doing what we can, if we had more operating capital, we could make the site better so that more would pay so that we could make the site better." Conundrums and naughty thumbs for a perspective check. odd.

On the main topic: I find the best way to deal with the problem everyone looks to be having as a GM is to over book the game a little and be prepared to run with what you get, this make prep a little hard as you have to have scalable encounters ready but it means you can normally get the game going at the very least. After you have the game going I find you just have to be prepared for characters to mysteriously disappear/appear some times. @Tsriel I would argue that the exact problems that maptools had (connection problems and slow if not stagnant development) are fixed only because of the fact Roll20 has a sub system. Also the stuff that is locked to only mentors/subs is mostly testing stuff (as in beta), so its not like you don't get it you just don't get to participate in the testing phase, and if you don't think that's fair then maybe you should go see how much servers like the ones Roll20 uses cost and then see if you would like paying that out of you pocket then maybe you might understand why they need to give people an incentive to help with the costs. I understand that some people miss the functionality of maptools but you have to remember that roll20 is relatively new and is focused on ease of use, I still believe that those feature may come one day and i for one am willing to wait for them.