a question if you will : XP advancement in 2E?

When i started my campaign back in july i started the game calendar on the same corresponding date. I use the calendar from Mystara/D&D Basic Gazetteers. (a 12 month 28 day calendar with 7 days per week). Since we started all most of the characters have advanced to about 5th level with new characters starting out with 1/2 the xp of the lowest character in the party. According to my calendar only one game month has passed since the original group had started..my question is this..are the PCs level too fast?

just as a fyi here is a list of adventures the group as gone through..note I edited these for 2e..Elwyn's sanctuary from B9 Castle Caldwell and beyond, B2 Keep on the Borderlands, and currently we are running B3 (Revised) Palace of the Silver Princess.

Not at all. I find it takes approximately one IRL year to reach name level, i.e. the level at which most classes can gain followers.  This amount of session time can take as little as six months in-game time.  After name level, progression slows to about three levels per in-game year, as each level takes a static amount of xp at around that point on.  I would, however, force new characters to start at level one if I were you, so that each character is easy to build and can be experienced at each level of play, which is of paramount importance to character development IMHO.  My game started on Roll20 maybe one month before yours and my highest new PC was almost level eight by then (unfortunately he died recently).  You are doing fine.  Don't worry about it.  Just keep your XP system going according to the Experience chapter of the DMG, and your game will go fine. :D

this is my xp system: Story Award: each PC gets a equal share after the adventure..Determined by how long it takes and how difficult it was (10,000 - 25,000xp) Role-play: each PC gets this award (100-200xp per session) Monster: equal share if the PLAYER is there for the session...sometimes characters are just dragged along because their players can't make a session Treasure (per PP): equal share (mostly for coins, gems and art objects (or other items of value) WARRIORS HD Warrior(10xp per HD): each warrior gets this total (again this is if the Player is in the session) CLERICS Spell cast to further Ethos (100 xp per spell level): pretty self explanatory Granted Power (100 XP): Making Potion/Scroll (after 9th level) (XP value): Making Permanent Magic (after 9th level) (XP value) MAGES Spell to overcome Problem (50xp per spell level) Spell Researched (after 9th level)(500xp per spell level) Making Potion/Scroll: 100xp/level of spell if spell scroll otherwise xp is compararble to a similar item as found in Encyclopedia Magica v. i-iv Making Permanent Magic: 100xp/level of spell if spell scroll otherwise xp is compararble to a similar item as found in Encyclopedia Magica v. i-iv THIEFS Per Successful use of Ability (200xp) HD Bard (5 xp per HD)

I don't bother with expected in game time and level advancement. Players advance based on kills and I give bonus exp on completing difficult puzzles. I also give bonus exp in helping me the DM to run the game. So I sometimes have a scribe and an accountant that tracks gold and expenses. Players get full experience as listed in the monster manual never split because I believe it makes the other players want to the others to show up. More and easier kills. Does this make them level up fast? Yes of course and it seems it takes near a year to get to level 20. However I think most people want to get to that point in every game and most groups don't hold together beyond that time frame anyways.

Personally I find those timeframes to be ridiculous.  There's a reason you don't see 25 year old archmages around, it should take decades of in game time to get to 20th level.

Hey some mages are just better than others  and reach the title of "arch mage" earlier in life .

See Raistlin Majere for example. Your players are supposed to be the extra ordinary types.

Even Raistlin didn't gain 20 levels in the span of a few months, it took years.  3rd level at the beginning of the Tales, several years of adventuring, followed by several years under Fistandantilus, followed by absorbing the powers of an archmage.  Not a couple months.

Surok said: I don't bother with expected in game time and level advancement. Players advance based on kills and I give bonus exp on completing difficult puzzles. I also give bonus exp in helping me the DM to run the game. So I sometimes have a scribe and an accountant that tracks gold and expenses. Players get full experience as listed in the monster manual never split because I believe it makes the other players want to the others to show up. More and easier kills. Does this make them level up fast? Yes of course and it seems it takes near a year to get to level 20. However I think most people want to get to that point in every game and most groups don't hold together beyond that time frame anyways. I just have to say, the group i am in has run every week, before i joined nearly 2 years ago, and NONE of us are even level 10 yet. We write Journals between sessions for bonus XP, our DM is VERY generous at times with the XP, so yeah.... i dont think your method or your expected time of a group being together is realistic, or conducive to a long term game. But to each their own, Happy Gaming!! And yes, there is me and 2 other original members who were here before me, along with the ones we have picked up to fill the ranks, and that is 4 of 7 players, and those 4 have hung out for months, despite all the one-timers and no-shows.

Paul W. said: Surok said: I don't bother with expected in game time and level advancement. Players advance based on kills and I give bonus exp on completing difficult puzzles. I also give bonus exp in helping me the DM to run the game. So I sometimes have a scribe and an accountant that tracks gold and expenses. Players get full experience as listed in the monster manual never split because I believe it makes the other players want to the others to show up. More and easier kills. Does this make them level up fast? Yes of course and it seems it takes near a year to get to level 20. However I think most people want to get to that point in every game and most groups don't hold together beyond that time frame anyways. I just have to say, the group i am in has run every week, before i joined nearly 2 years ago, and NONE of us are even level 10 yet. We write Journals between sessions for bonus XP, our DM is VERY generous at times with the XP, so yeah.... i dont think your method or your expected time of a group being together is realistic, or conducive to a long term game. But to each their own, Happy Gaming!! And yes, there is me and 2 other original members who were here before me, along with the ones we have picked up to fill the ranks, and that is 4 of 7 players, and those 4 have hung out for months, despite all the one-timers and no-shows. All my observations are generalizations and some groups choose to have slower or faster progression for some strange reason. I highly encourage the use of the optional experience awards system in addition to the group experience system for level advancement, as it is a system based on merit and individual achievement.  Each player can now feel as though their efforts are not wasted when sacrificing spells or taking extra risk in the name of story progression and team success. All classes clearly have reason to evaluate risk-versus-reward when using this system in a much more personal way than if group experience is the only method used. When using the individual class award and the common individual awards found in the Experience chapter of the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Second Edition Dungeon Master's Guide as a guideline on character progression, players tend to reach level 9 (which is when most classes gain followers) within the first 250 hours of play. Now, I'm no mathematician, but if your group plays 2.5ish hours per week "every week" for 2ish years and dedicates a little extra time between sessions to earn xp, your group's progression seems similar to what we have been saying i.e., getting to level 9. I assume somebody is level 9 in your group since you said "NONE of us are even level 10". Again, when using the Experience chapter of the AD&D 2E DMG, I find that each character will gain 1 level per session until they reach level 3 or 4.  Characters usually slow down to 2 or 3 sessions per level at that point until they reach level 5.  Now, in 2E, level 5 is a real milestone level.  That's when fighters master a weapon, wizards gain access to the iconic fireball and lightning bolt spells, priests can memorize approximately 7 to 10 healing spells per day depending on their wisdom, and thieves gain their x3 backstab modifier, and they can max out their move silent/hide in shadows skills well before this, making them extremely dangerous in combat depending on their choice of weapon.  Characters tend to slow down progression at this point, which is a good thing seeing as how they suddenly become so much more effective, and tend to take 5 to 10 sessions to level up again, depending on choice of class.  A slowing of progression happens again at levels 7 and 9, making progress from levels 1-9 take approximately 250 hours of play, depending on the amount of time spent playing per session. My observations are based on approximately 170 documented sessions during which I played as the Dungeon Master in AD&D 2E since 2002.  Again, all the pertinent information can be found in the Dungeon Mater's Guide chapter 8: Experience.  I highly recommend it to any DM.

IDK..maybe its because I use 2e updates of BECMI modules to start (I give my players a choice of 3 storylines to begin play. These storylines are classic Basic Modules or the Goblins Den box set that I personally update to 2e by simply using the 2e Monstrous Manual counterparts of BECMI monsters and creating 2e Monster manual entries for those monsters not listed in any of the manuals but are used in the old modules.) Maybe these updates with the new xp scores for each monster is the reason. Now the reason I do this is because i didn't find any decent starting level adventures except for maybe the ones in the Rod of the Seven Parts boxed set.

Mark W. said: IDK..maybe its because I use 2e updates of BECMI modules to start (I give my players a choice of 3 storylines to begin play. These storylines are classic Basic Modules or the Goblins Den box set that I personally update to 2e by simply using the 2e Monstrous Manual counterparts of BECMI monsters and creating 2e Monster manual entries for those monsters not listed in any of the manuals but are used in the old modules.) Maybe these updates with the new xp scores for each monster is the reason. Now the reason I do this is because i didn't find any decent starting level adventures except for maybe the ones in the Rod of the Seven Parts boxed set. Basically, the DMG says if nobody complains about level progressions, you're doing ok.  Have you been using the class experience tables in the 2E Player's Handbook?  If so, you are doing just fine.  Usually, my concern is how dangerous 2E is for level 1 characters.  That's why I personally use all the optional awards.  They make it possible to advance to level 2 without ever being in combat in most cases (and for the classes who need the HP the most, too. :D)   In most cases in 2E, tackling a dungeon when the entire party is still at level 1 is just way too deadly, unless you have about 7 players and allow your players access to mercenary hirelings beforehand.  I almost always place my dungeon somewhere in the wilderness a distance away from the introductory settlement in order to provide an opportunity to have a few encounters along the way and maybe level up before ever reaching a dungeon full of traps and monsters. Just remember, if progression isn't the right speed and if the campaign isn't the right mix of deadly, you will lose players. Let player attrition be your guide.  If you can't seem to keep players showing up, it's a good indication that something needs to be adjusted.

this is a 2e game so i do use the XP tables for the character with one exception. We have an archer-ranger as per the Dragon Magazine article (see Dragon Issue 45 for the Archer and Archer-Ranger classes). My thing is this..it seems that in this party has been very busy in the game month that has passed since the campaign started..they are on their 3rd adventure and like i said they are at level 5 except for some of the new players that joined at later dates. now i ran Elwyn's sanctuary from B9 Castle Caldwell and Beyond, and B2 Keep on the Borderlands for them (that is where the bulk of the XP came from and they didn't even clear all the caves, before being requested to help Haven as per B3 (Revised) Palace of the Silver Princess (which is what we are currently playing.) There is one more adventure in the storyline (B5 Horror on the Hill) before i continue with the next storyline (which is more level appropriate (I plan on running the The Haunted Tower boxed set (all the maps are set with tokens and fog of war)) before having the characters experience the other areas of the game world by running Prism Keep from Dungeon Magazine.. I use indiviual xp as per the table that you posted since that is fair and it helps those that really need the xp to advance. We are all having fun except when we had a disruptive player join us for two sessions before he felt DM's Wrath and was banned from the game.

Mark W. said: this is a 2e game so i do use the XP tables for the character with one exception. We have an archer-ranger as per the Dragon Magazine article (see Dragon Issue 45 for the Archer and Archer-Ranger classes). My thing is this..it seems that in this party has been very busy in the game month that has passed since the campaign started..they are on their 3rd adventure and like i said they are at level 5 except for some of the new players that joined at later dates. now i ran Elwyn's sanctuary from B9 Castle Caldwell and Beyond, and B2 Keep on the Borderlands for them (that is where the bulk of the XP came from and they didn't even clear all the caves, before being requested to help Haven as per B3 (Revised) Palace of the Silver Princess (which is what we are currently playing.) I use indiviual xp as per the table that you posted since that is fair and it helps those that really need the xp to advance. We are all having fun except when we had a disruptive player join us for two sessions before he felt DM's Wrath and was banned from the game. So other than the one disruptive player, is anyone else complaining about the speed?  If nobody complains, you're doing just fine. Also, in what way was the player disruptive? Was he the one who complained about progression?

Gargamond said: Mark W. said: this is a 2e game so i do use the XP tables for the character with one exception. We have an archer-ranger as per the Dragon Magazine article (see Dragon Issue 45 for the Archer and Archer-Ranger classes). My thing is this..it seems that in this party has been very busy in the game month that has passed since the campaign started..they are on their 3rd adventure and like i said they are at level 5 except for some of the new players that joined at later dates. now i ran Elwyn's sanctuary from B9 Castle Caldwell and Beyond, and B2 Keep on the Borderlands for them (that is where the bulk of the XP came from and they didn't even clear all the caves, before being requested to help Haven as per B3 (Revised) Palace of the Silver Princess (which is what we are currently playing.) I use indiviual xp as per the table that you posted since that is fair and it helps those that really need the xp to advance. We are all having fun except when we had a disruptive player join us for two sessions before he felt DM's Wrath and was banned from the game. So other than the one disruptive player, is anyone else complaining about the speed?  If nobody complains, you're doing just fine. Also, in what way was the player disruptive? Was he the one who complained about progression? the player would overwhelm the game to the point where other players would leave the sessions. also he missed a session and kept insisting on getting a share of treasure and xp as those characters whose players were in session. Also he insisted on Looting the Castle even though the players would be rewarded for their efforts in saving Haven plus all the other treasure that was to be found..He had many warnings in game (as when he was a victim of a pit and oil trap). Suffice it to say..he may have been having fun, but the other players in the group were not.

Mark W. said: Gargamond said: Mark W. said: this is a 2e game so i do use the XP tables for the character with one exception. We have an archer-ranger as per the Dragon Magazine article (see Dragon Issue 45 for the Archer and Archer-Ranger classes). My thing is this..it seems that in this party has been very busy in the game month that has passed since the campaign started..they are on their 3rd adventure and like i said they are at level 5 except for some of the new players that joined at later dates. now i ran Elwyn's sanctuary from B9 Castle Caldwell and Beyond, and B2 Keep on the Borderlands for them (that is where the bulk of the XP came from and they didn't even clear all the caves, before being requested to help Haven as per B3 (Revised) Palace of the Silver Princess (which is what we are currently playing.) I use indiviual xp as per the table that you posted since that is fair and it helps those that really need the xp to advance. We are all having fun except when we had a disruptive player join us for two sessions before he felt DM's Wrath and was banned from the game. So other than the one disruptive player, is anyone else complaining about the speed?  If nobody complains, you're doing just fine. Also, in what way was the player disruptive? Was he the one who complained about progression? the player would overwhelm the game to the point where other players would leave the sessions. also he missed a session and kept insisting on getting a share of treasure and xp as those characters whose players were in session. Also he insisted on Looting the Castle even though the players would be rewarded for their efforts in saving Haven plus all the other treasure that was to be found..He had many warnings in game (as when he was a victim of a pit and oil trap). Suffice it to say..he may have been having fun, but the other players in the group were not. Ok.  I would just kick the guy if he was objecting to the mechanics of traps and experience awards.  In that case, I would just ask him if 2E is really his cup of tea.  Not sure how looting a castle should have any bearing though.  If his alignment allows it, that could be a fun adventure.  If alignment options are a problem, I would simply restrict character alignments.   No Evil or no Chaotic characters seems like a good option.  The heavy roleplay crowd of players might have issues with alignment restrictions though.  Then again, some DMs just can't handle certain alignments, too.  Sometimes people want to play that chaotic good guy who loots castles and pickpockets the nobles like robin hood.  Just remember that the players have the right to change the world you created.  The story isn't just yours to create, unless you railroad the players. In the same vein, forbidding player versus player combat is usually a bad idea.  If you have a PC whose alignment, religion, race, etc are just too different than other PC's, then pvp combat may be the best option.  Lots of great fantasy fiction stories have inter-party friction, and it's just a natural part of roleplaying sometimes.  Personally, I don't give xp awards for pvp combat in my campaign, but other awards are earned just by happenstance. I.e. the distribution of the murdered/executed party member's belongings.  Just remember that in the case of paladins, dueling/executing an evil party member is kind of a necessary deed in order to keep the paladin's oath, as paladins are supposed to operate similarly to a Judge-Dredd type of character in that they are judge, jury, and executioner.

I do restrict alignments to where i do not allow evil characters in the party..and I explain the reason for this when the player and i create the character..and in this particular case the party was asked by a Deity for help with a problem that for reasons unknown to them she couldn't handle herself. IMHO if a Deity asks mortal to do something it behooves said mortal to be heroic as possible for fear of divine retribution..We on a whole haven't had any true character deaths (although the Barbarian in the group was petrified by a medusa that was imprisoned in the evil Shrine hidden in the caves of chaos.) and yes he was playing a halfling thief. but the whole party kept reminding him that they as a whole would be rewarded and the Deity herself told the character directly that they would be well compensated.

Mark W. said: I do restrict alignments to where i do not allow evil characters in the party..and I explain the reason for this when the player and i create the character..and in this particular case the party was asked by a Deity for help with a problem that for reasons unknown to them she couldn't handle herself. IMHO if a Deity asks mortal to do something it behooves said mortal to be heroic as possible for fear of divine retribution..We on a whole haven't had any true character deaths (although the Barbarian in the group was petrified by a medusa that was imprisoned in the evil Shrine hidden in the caves of chaos.) and yes he was playing a halfling thief. but the whole party kept reminding him that they as a whole would be rewarded and the Deity herself told the character directly that they would be well compensated. It sounds as though the PC may have separated himself from the rest of the party at some point to sneak into the castle to loot it.  Is this a correct assumption? In the case of one character actually playing while everyone else just sits there and twiddles their thumbs for hours, I have a house rule where the party must never separate:  "Any character or group of characters who leave the majority of the party, going off and doing their own thing are essentially retired and become NPCs." I then encourage those players to roll up new characters and suggest they use their out-of-character knowledge to create characters who might actually want to join this particular group of adventurers.  Cases like this provide you, as a DM, with NPC parties with their own magical items and loot for the PC's with whom to interact.  Remember, other parties of adventurers are on the published encounter tables and from time to time are very interesting encounters, especially if certain PC's have tense histories with said NPC's. wink wink Keeping a stock of NPC's for PC's to interact with is important to running a believable world.  Surely the PC's are not the only adventurers on the planet.  Utilizing retired characters, my own former PCs, my own deceased characters from other campaigns, and the characters of players who get booted from my game for this purpose is much easier and much more natural than sitting for hours, generating NPC parties for future use.

Mark W. said: Gargamond said: Mark W. said: this is a 2e game so i do use the XP tables for the character with one exception. We have an archer-ranger as per the Dragon Magazine article (see Dragon Issue 45 for the Archer and Archer-Ranger classes). My thing is this..it seems that in this party has been very busy in the game month that has passed since the campaign started..they are on their 3rd adventure and like i said they are at level 5 except for some of the new players that joined at later dates. now i ran Elwyn's sanctuary from B9 Castle Caldwell and Beyond, and B2 Keep on the Borderlands for them (that is where the bulk of the XP came from and they didn't even clear all the caves, before being requested to help Haven as per B3 (Revised) Palace of the Silver Princess (which is what we are currently playing.) I use indiviual xp as per the table that you posted since that is fair and it helps those that really need the xp to advance. We are all having fun except when we had a disruptive player join us for two sessions before he felt DM's Wrath and was banned from the game. So other than the one disruptive player, is anyone else complaining about the speed?  If nobody complains, you're doing just fine. Also, in what way was the player disruptive? Was he the one who complained about progression? the player would overwhelm the game to the point where other players would leave the sessions. also he missed a session and kept insisting on getting a share of treasure and xp as those characters whose players were in session. Also he insisted on Looting the Castle even though the players would be rewarded for their efforts in saving Haven plus all the other treasure that was to be found..He had many warnings in game (as when he was a victim of a pit and oil trap). Suffice it to say..he may have been having fun, but the other players in the group were not. Kick... Its what's it for.

no he was with the group when the came across a room with this description There is a small fountain of water in one corner of this room. Tapestries hang along both the north and south walls; one shows a scene of a young maiden with golden hair sitting on a silver throne. Upon her head rests a crown of silver and rubies. In one hand she holds a silver scepter and in the other she holds a large ruby. The other tapestry shows a warrior in black plate mail resting casually in a wooden chair decorated with carvings. His feet are propped upon a stool. DM INFO: The two tapestries show Princess Argenta and the warrior Ellis the Strong. Except for the fountain, the rest of the room is empty. The fountain contains only water. The halfling thief want to take the tapestries and stuff them in his pack.

I've been in too many slow moving games, maybe that's why I prefer a faster rate of advancement. 

Stephen S. said: Mark W. said: Gargamond said: Mark W. said: this is a 2e game so i do use the XP tables for the character with one exception. We have an archer-ranger as per the Dragon Magazine article (see Dragon Issue 45 for the Archer and Archer-Ranger classes). My thing is this..it seems that in this party has been very busy in the game month that has passed since the campaign started..they are on their 3rd adventure and like i said they are at level 5 except for some of the new players that joined at later dates. now i ran Elwyn's sanctuary from B9 Castle Caldwell and Beyond, and B2 Keep on the Borderlands for them (that is where the bulk of the XP came from and they didn't even clear all the caves, before being requested to help Haven as per B3 (Revised) Palace of the Silver Princess (which is what we are currently playing.) I use indiviual xp as per the table that you posted since that is fair and it helps those that really need the xp to advance. We are all having fun except when we had a disruptive player join us for two sessions before he felt DM's Wrath and was banned from the game. So other than the one disruptive player, is anyone else complaining about the speed?  If nobody complains, you're doing just fine. Also, in what way was the player disruptive? Was he the one who complained about progression? the player would overwhelm the game to the point where other players would leave the sessions. also he missed a session and kept insisting on getting a share of treasure and xp as those characters whose players were in session. Also he insisted on Looting the Castle even though the players would be rewarded for their efforts in saving Haven plus all the other treasure that was to be found..He had many warnings in game (as when he was a victim of a pit and oil trap). Suffice it to say..he may have been having fun, but the other players in the group were not. Kick... Its what's it for. he was

Good.  I kick quick and hard. I don't need to spend hours with someone that I have to manage their behavior. And I am not that introspective about it.... Easy to find players....someone will like my game.

Mark W. said: no he was with the group when the came across a room with this description There is a small fountain of water in one corner of this room. Tapestries hang along both the north and south walls; one shows a scene of a young maiden with golden hair sitting on a silver throne. Upon her head rests a crown of silver and rubies. In one hand she holds a silver scepter and in the other she holds a large ruby. The other tapestry shows a warrior in black plate mail resting casually in a wooden chair decorated with carvings. His feet are propped upon a stool. DM INFO: The two tapestries show Princess Argenta and the warrior Ellis the Strong. Except for the fountain, the rest of the room is empty. The fountain contains only water. The halfling thief want to take the tapestries and stuff them in his pack. This sounds like a joke to me. Not sure why that would be a problem, other than the possibility that after the halfling risks life and limb getting to the ceiling to cut the tapestries down, the tapestries probably are too bulky and weigh too much to properly fit into a halfling backpack.  Also, castle guards who see a heavily encumbered halfling "peck" with a familiar-looking tapestry bulging out of his overweight backpack might have something to say about it.  Sounds like the character is utterly ridiculous and could have been used for comic relief rather than taking the situation too seriously and having players leave the game and kicking the guy. Sometimes, you just have to tell players "Your halfling wants to get the tapestries down from there? Ok.  Gimme a climbing check, Drildo."

one reason i joined this group..i don't want to waste time explaining 2e rules to someone who hasn't played it while we are in session, but he didn't try to contact me outside of session with any questions..I have a solid group now and everyone has fun. i get requests from other members of Roll20 to join but we are in the middle of an adventure..once done and we get back to civilization i might recruit from the Roll2e group..

Gargamond said: Mark W. said: no he was with the group when the came across a room with this description There is a small fountain of water in one corner of this room. Tapestries hang along both the north and south walls; one shows a scene of a young maiden with golden hair sitting on a silver throne. Upon her head rests a crown of silver and rubies. In one hand she holds a silver scepter and in the other she holds a large ruby. The other tapestry shows a warrior in black plate mail resting casually in a wooden chair decorated with carvings. His feet are propped upon a stool. DM INFO: The two tapestries show Princess Argenta and the warrior Ellis the Strong. Except for the fountain, the rest of the room is empty. The fountain contains only water. The halfling thief want to take the tapestries and stuff them in his pack. This sounds like a joke to me. Not sure why that would be a problem, other than the possibility that after the halfling risks life and limb getting to the ceiling to cut the tapestries down, the tapestries probably are too bulky and weigh too much to properly fit into a halfling backpack.  Also, castle guards who see a heavily encumbered halfling "peck" with a familiar-looking tapestry bulging out of his overweight backpack might have something to say about it.  Sounds like the character is utterly ridiculous and could have been used for comic relief rather than taking the situation too seriously and having players leave the game and kicking the guy. Sometimes, you just have to tell players "You want to get the tapestries down from there? Ok.  Gimme a climbing check." that wasn't the reason he was kicked..but the other players were complaining about him..not just one or two of them but the whole group. and we are pretty welcoming with new players..

we tried working with this player..unfortunately some just don't get it and are better of playing other games..

And i am the type of DM that lets the characters drive the campaign of (of course I steer them to what i have planned because we are a weekly campaign, but i give enough hooks for future adventures (usually 3 or more ahead) to give me time to work on them..I am pretty laid back but when i make a ruling on something, "the gods have spoken".

Surok said: I've been in too many slow moving games, maybe that's why I prefer a faster rate of advancement.  As have I.  I once played a 2E game on roll20 where I was level 1 for five sessions.  2E is designed so that a character will level once per the first 2 or 3 sessions.  Not very fun at all to gain 175 xp for a five hour session of combat and roleplaying here, 135 xp for a six hour session of roleplaying and dungeoneering there.  The game felt like a gigantic waste of time and effort.  One single roleplaying bonus could outweigh that DM's entire session xp-wise.  It seemed that each PC who reached level 2 would die somehow and the player would leave the game.  I brought it up time and time again to the DM that he should consider individual xp awards and to read chapter 8 of the DMG.  We lost 5 players to attrition in as many sessions.  Ultimately, I was removed from the game.  I have been in 5 AD&D 2E campaigns like this on roll20 alone.  They don't last long, and the DM's eventually give up entirely, as there is usually only 1 or 2 masochistic suckers who actually stick around for the punishment.

Gargamond said: Surok said: I've been in too many slow moving games, maybe that's why I prefer a faster rate of advancement.  As have I.  I once played a 2E game on roll20 where I was level 1 for five sessions.  2E is designed so that a character will level once per the first 2 or 3 sessions.  Not very fun at all to gain 175 xp for a five hour session of combat and roleplaying here, 135 xp for a six hour session of roleplaying and dungeoneering there.  The game felt like a gigantic waste of time and effort.  One single roleplaying bonus could outweigh that DM's entire session xp-wise.  It seemed that each PC who reached level 2 would die somehow and the player would leave the game.  I brought it up time and time again to the DM that he should consider individual xp awards and to read chapter 8 of the DMG.  We lost 5 players to attrition in as many sessions.  Ultimately, I was removed from the game.  I have been in 5 AD&D 2E campaigns like this on roll20 alone.  They don't last long, and the DM's eventually give up entirely, as there is usually only 1 or 2 masochistic suckers who actually stick around for the punishment. Someone who gets it. I know everyone including myself would love to play the most epic and long lasting D&D campaign. Sadly reality puts forth conflicting schedules and players or the DM  move on due to real life. I don't fancy myself the best DM out there so I'm not going to torture my players with mundane level 1 stuff for 5 years. If I suck I rather error on the side of epic fantastical than the mundane. Granted there will be all be players out there that enjoy that type of game, I'm not one of them and I presume most people enjoy a sense of advancement. I would say 80% of the time most players will play a game that doesn't last more than a year. So why waste precious time with filler and tedious advancement. Make every session meaningful and rewarding as possible. If the players get too powerful you just up the difficulty. I'm not doing anything special, I reward as listed exp in the monster manual and roll the straight up the treasure tables. If you do that the game does move quickly in 2nd edition, it's designed that way. 

A question. The guide recommends for believability sake that characters show that they use the free time to train as much as possible to explain how experience points allow quick progression. Did they do that?

no..i don't use that option..i am of the school that advancement comes wit use. since the party usually gains the level while out in the field i won't hinder them by having them spend down time training..now maybe when they reach name level i will do that because that is when they can start crafting things and researching their own spells and what not i will use downtime for that. But let me rewind a bit.. I start each campaign by giving the players their choice of the following storylines: A punitive "campaign" against a tribe of goblins and their allies (BECMI Modules Assault on Raven's Ruin, Goblins Den boxed set) (3 adventures) A series of missions For Church and Crown (BECMI adventures Elwyn's Sanctuary (B9), The Keep on the Borderlands (B2), Palace of the Silver Princess (B3 (Revised)), Horror on the Hill (B5) (4 adventures) To act as couriers for a elven merchant that leads them To Lands Unknown (Rahasia (B7), and The Lost City (B4) Now I have updated all these modules to 2e by simply using the 2e counterparts of the BECMI monsters. There are some differences to the monster XP (ie BECMI goblins are 5xp each and 2e goblins are 15xp, BECMI young black dragon is 1,250xp and a 2e Black dragon of similar number of HD (hatchling) is 4,000xp). Another difference is that some modules have set treasure for each encounter and others have variable treasure. I usually keep treasure as listed, which leads to items discovered that are not in the 2e DMG. now I give 1xp for every 5gp (1PP) of monetary treasure found, the total to be split among the characters that were "active" during the session instead of dragged behind because the player wasn't there for the session. Usually my groups start with the goblins and we go from there..this group, however, went on the "Crusade" and are currently in the insular Kingdom of Haven (B3 Palace of the Silver Princess) at the behest of the Kingdom's Protector (an aspect of the Deity of Nature).

Sorry, I did not mean the Training option. What I meant is that they actively show through RP that they train. Which often fills in how mage of 1st level learns spells faster than usual college sitting ones. Not perfect explanation, but works.

oh..in that case i allow the mage to "remember" one (or two if specialist) spells of the new spell level that is earned, otherwise they have to find/buy spells to fill their spell books with

Rainbow P. said: Sorry, I did not mean the Training option. What I meant is that they actively show through RP that they train. Which often fills in how mage of 1st level learns spells faster than usual college sitting ones. Not perfect explanation, but works. I like mark's method.  Personally, I only require training when fighters are training to learn weapon highmastery or grandmastery and when non-human characters reach their inherent level limit for their class(es).  Alternatively, I also allow non-humans to use a wish to gain a level and also, I allow "slow progression" i.e. it takes double xp to gain a level.  Either of the 3 options is fine, whichever one happens first.