[Blades in the Dark] New styled sheet, feedback sought!

Completing the masterful work of  Tim , I have put together a new character sheet for Blades in the Dark that is built to resemble the paper sheets. It's not 100% completed yet, but it's mostly in a presentable state, so I thought I'd post it to get some feedback. Well-deserved credit The general design, character part, and roll templates are due to Tim. Without his work, this definitely would not have happened. Preview Features Layout is made to resemble the paper sheet, with some adjustments for a more vertical design Roll templates for actions, resist rolls, indulge vice, fortune rolls, and rolling your crew's tier and cohort quality Sheet workers to out most of the playbook or crew data automatically after you enter the playbook name/type of crew - this will never overwrite user-entered data (adapted to the info in the v8 sheets) Hacking-friendly; while much of the data is filled out automatically, you can also enter everything you want manually. Trying it out and giving feedback We're looking to submit the sheet to the Roll20 Github repository eventually. Before doing that, I'd like for a time for people to give some feedback on the look of the sheet - it's hard to nail it down when you do not have many platforms to test it on, fonts in particular may look very differently on different systems. If you want to have a look, you can either grab the html and css from my  Github if you are a pro user, or have a look in the test campaign (join link - enter !charsheet to give yourself a sheet). Caution:  The sheet should be fully functional and you can use it in your own campaign starting now. However, it's not  completely straightforward to just put in a campaign running with the current live sheet (or with the sheet from Tim's Github). The attribute names do not match up. If you want to convert your campaign, you'll either have to transfer data manually with 2 tabs and a copied game, or look for the old attributes in the attributes & abilities tab and copy them into the new fields (which works fine for everything but data in repeating sections).

OMG, so good : looks and acts great no matter my window size too (in Chrome anyways). I am not a pro/mobile user so I can't help you with that testing. Some small niggles to note: Having more than one Special Armor isn't a thing anymore; instead abilities grant ways to expend the one you have. Recommend removing the box to eliminate possible confusion. The quality indicator on the cohorts is no longer a thing; so having it there just provokes extra bookkeeping now since v8.1. Notice that newest sheets lack a set of quality dots; this is a reflection of the rule changes such that  there is no longer a general option to increase cohort quality  (at least, beyond tier+1 for gangs; or tier for experts) and the "Elite" upgrade on the crew sheet is the only way to add any more quality, but it applies to all cohorts of the given type and there is no option to keep boosting it . Request: Clickable Wanted Level (to roll that value for entanglements)

SaveMeJebu5 (Mark C) said: OMG, so good : looks and acts great no matter my window size too (in Chrome anyways). I am not a pro/mobile user so I can't help you with that testing. Some small niggles to note: Having more than one Special Armor isn't a thing anymore; instead abilities grant ways to expend the one you have. Recommend removing the box to eliminate possible confusion. The quality indicator on the cohorts is no longer a thing; so having it there just provokes extra bookkeeping now since v8.1. Notice that newest sheets lack a set of quality dots; this is a reflection of the rule changes such that  there is no longer a general option to increase cohort quality  (at least, beyond tier+1 for gangs; or tier for experts) and the "Elite" upgrade on the crew sheet is the only way to add any more quality, but it applies to all cohorts of the given type and there is no option to keep boosting it . Request: Clickable Wanted Level (to roll that value for entanglements) Thanks for the comments! What you are doing right now is helping me with testing, however! Re: niggles: Good catch, that survived from an earlier version. I'll replace everything there with just a checkbox titled "Special Armor". Hmm, I'll adapt it to 8.1. There seems to be no need to still have a dedicated button for rolling a cohort's quality, since it's usually crew tier or crew tier +1 now. I think I'll instead make it an input field so it's possible to give the the cohort a proper name. As for your request, it's already on my to do list :).

Jakob said: What you are doing right now is helping me [...] As for your request, it's already on my to do list :). Yea I tested a bunch of rollable things to ensure that its working as it should. So far so good. Love that the labels are editable for hacking btw. Fine - I will make another request then :) Tier label could be more prominent

Saw your recent updates. Those seem to work fine, even having the old data in there. Two other issues I noticed: Adding clocks to the crew sheet fails. The first clock works fine, but after adding a new one, it just disappears after creating it (upon clicking away I think, but also when pressing Enter to confirm the title). Not sure if this has anything to do with the clock I added to the test character and edited a bunch, but hopefully you can find the issue with that info. "Pet/special" upgrade no longer exists and should be removed (crew sheet)

Glad to see this.  I was beginning to give up hope that Tim's sheet would ever get adopted by roll20, but seeing it continue to evolve is a good sign.

Another suggestion: set default Crew Hold to Strong as that is the starting hold for crews now (and this change will elude many, since it was only just finalized in 8.1)

SaveMeJebu5 (Mark C) said: Fine - I will make another request then :) Tier label could be more prominent Hmm, that one is hard. There's really no space for it in the current spot, and I wouldn't know where to put it otherwise. SaveMeJebu5 (Mark C) said: Saw your recent updates. Those seem to work fine, even having the old data in there. Two other issues I noticed: Adding clocks to the crew sheet fails. The first clock works fine, but after adding a new one, it just disappears after creating it (upon clicking away I think, but also when pressing Enter to confirm the title). Not sure if this has anything to do with the clock I added to the test character and edited a bunch, but hopefully you can find the issue with that info. "Pet/special" upgrade no longer exists and should be removed (crew sheet) 1. Found the issue, apparently repeating section names may not contain underscores. (The name was a recent change, I felt so smart about giving the crew sheet its own clock and ability sections :D) 2. Removed. Thanks for testing! SaveMeJebu5 (Mark C) said: Another suggestion: set default Crew Hold to Strong as that is the starting hold for crews now (and this change will elude many, since it was only just finalized in 8.1) Oh, I totally missed that. 

Do you have intentions of syncing up the attributes or any opposition to having them synced up and submitted so that users can switch sheets more easily? I'm modifying Tim's sheet into Scum & Villainy sheets right now myself so I'm fairly familiar with it and potentially could help (i'm definitely not procrastinating on starting on the Ship sheets from scratch) if I find the spare time to just go through an compare attribute names.

Also, while testing: The Autocomplete for the items could use a reset condition that runs before it inputs them.  Right now, if you put in a playbook, then switch to another playbook that doesnt have items in the same spots the old playbooks items will still exist.  Not the biggest deal but a noticable thing (easiest way to text this is Leech -> Any other playbook since no one else has Gadgets)

I'm not sure if this is on the agenda to add or not but the recovery clock should be changed to a 4 tick clock instead of an 8 tick clock. The sheet is looking great. Excellent work. 

Hey! These sheets are amazing and I'm implementing them into my game as we speak. Personal taste: it would be awesome if there were dedicated sections for edges and flaws. Also, maybe two different areas to record the cohort's crew types, with a button by each one which add the bonus dice for you for having elite thugs or being an expert, or whatnot.

Great on Desktop Chrome so far, no issues I've found yet aside from the couple of things mentioned above like the new recovery clock size. Beyond that, these look amazing. I especially love the Gear icon settings for adding extra Trauma/Stress boxes, that is such a big thing for less off-sheet bookkeeping.  On mobile (iOS, iPad mini) the text Does not line up in a couple of places. On the Items lists, the text is all shifted down about half a line, which cuts off the bottom of the item names. On the Actions, the Action names are kind of scrunched down to the bottom of their boxes, not lined up/spaced with the dots. The Coin/Stash tickboxes are scrunched together rather than lining up. The "Alchemicals" text is above and to the left of the Planning and Load text, right below Modify for the Special abilities if that section is empty. Tested and verified with various screen zoom levels and both Portrait and Landscape orientation.  Thanks for the amazing work on these, looking forward to being able to use em.

Chris M. said: Do you have intentions of syncing up the attributes or any opposition to having them synced up and submitted so that users can switch sheets more easily? I'm modifying Tim's sheet into Scum & Villainy sheets right now myself so I'm fairly familiar with it and potentially could help (i'm definitely not procrastinating on starting on the Ship sheets from scratch) if I find the spare time to just go through an compare attribute names. Thanks for the offer. I'm not really in favour of using their attribute names, since many of them are pretty nonsensical, and I think a sheet change is the best opportunity to start a better attribute name scheme. And honestly, it's not THAT much work to transfer over stuff. BUT: If you can give me a JSON for all changed names where the keys are the old names and the values are the new names (one for all normal attributes, and one for each repeating section), I think I can write a quick conversion function via sheet workers. mike t. said: On mobile (iOS, iPad mini) the text Does not line up in a couple of places. On the Items lists, the text is all shifted down about half a line, which cuts off the bottom of the item names. On the Actions, the Action names are kind of scrunched down to the bottom of their boxes, not lined up/spaced with the dots. The Coin/Stash tickboxes are scrunched together rather than lining up. The "Alchemicals" text is above and to the left of the Planning and Load text, right below Modify for the Special abilities if that section is empty. Tested and verified with various screen zoom levels and both Portrait and Landscape orientation.  Thanks for the report, but mobile, that's hard to debug. I know nothing about web development, so I'm somewhat stumped as to how to take care of this. Maybe  alchemicals is fixed with the newest version? I changed it to a span instead of a div. Adam S. said: Personal taste: it would be awesome if there were dedicated sections for edges and flaws. Also, maybe two different areas to record the cohort's crew types, with a button by each one which add the bonus dice for you for having elite thugs or being an expert, or whatnot. To clarify: you mean dedicated section for cohort edges and flaws? About the crew types: you can change the "Cohort" title to whatever you like, and I would personally change them to Thugs or Adepts or whatever you want instead of the less-descriptive Cohort. So (sorry again, just to clarify), you imagine a roll button that just rolls the crew's tier in the Cohort Section, with some checkboxes that add automatic bonus dice? Looking for input Many of the input fields on the sheet turn red if the checkbox next to them is selected. I'm looking to maybe change it so that instead of turning red, it turns bold. Thoughts?

Change Log Version 0.2.4: Recovery is now a 4-tick clock Added option to modify the names of Stress and Trauma via gear settings Added the option of adding a 12th stress tooth Added reset-to-zero applied before switching playbooks or crew_types. This won't change any field that has been modified by the user. Unused playbook item slots will be hidden automatically Some minor styling changes A complete change log can always be found on Github.

Sorry if this is a dumb question... but how do I use this in my own Roll20 game? It looks great in the test campaign!

Personally, I like the red. Bold is also fine, but will be less prominent alongside other bolded things. An alternative idea: darken the shade of red some (but now I'm just nitpicking)

The Red makes it easier to find things you've marked quickly, especially like when you're logging in again after a week or longer breaker. And I hear you on the attribute name stuff, that's totally fine.

Jakob said: Thanks for the report, but mobile, that's hard to debug. I know nothing about web development, so I'm somewhat stumped as to how to take care of this. Maybe  alchemicals is fixed with the newest version? I changed it to a span instead of a div. Yeah, I'm not surprised at all that mobile is weird. It doesn't impact me personally, but as I had a device handy I figured I'd test it out there in case it's on your radar. On the red: It looks nice, but for me it can be a bit hard to read occasionally. If you are pretty familiar with the Special Ability and Item names that's not a big deal however.

Amazing! Beautiful!

You've got me curious about your process. I see you maintain a bunch of separate source files. Do you compile them with gulp, or something like that? For layout, do you use a visual webdesigner or code everything by hand?

plexsoup said: You've got me curious about your process. I see you maintain a bunch of separate source files. Do you compile them with gulp, or something like that? I'm a total amateur. I should really use gulp for this, but instead I use a small script to concatenate stuff, run it through this  tool to get rid of spaces (which changes what the output looks like, but I actually want it to remove all that whitespace between inline/inline-block elements!). Then I paste it together with the sheet worker file, which I haven't run through anything, mostly because it tends to stop working afterwards. And there it is, my messy and time-consuming (1 minute) build process! Luckily, I don't have that many files. For layout, do you use a visual webdesigner or code everything by hand? It's all by hand. But I make a lot of use of the dev tools on Chrome to test out CSS. Amazing! Beautiful! We were mostly just copying the layout of the official sheets with only minor alterations (modulo moving around a few things to fit a vertical layout instead of landscape). At least for me, there's no original design work involved so far :) - I guess that's for the best, since I don't actually know anything about it.

FYI, there were some display issues with the sheet that showed up in Firefox on Windows. I think they should all be fixed now in the latest version 0.3.3. There have also been a couple of additions with regard to supporting the spirit playbooks, as well as a fully functional Entanglement button (press Wanted to roll it). Full changelog is on Github. Since there seems to be some interest in this by non-pro users as well, I've submitted a pull request to Roll20 for the sheet (it's either today or a week later). I don't know if they will accept it at this point since there already is another sheet, but we will see.

Jakob said:  ... but I actually want it to remove all that whitespace between inline/inline-block elements! Damn. That explains why I've been having trouble lining up elements. Thanks!

plexsoup said: Jakob said:  ... but I actually want it to remove all that whitespace between inline/inline-block elements! Damn. That explains why I've been having trouble lining up elements. Thanks! When I first learned this stuff, I was totally confused about why 95% + 5% added up to more than 100%, until I figured out it was because they were two inline-block elements and had whitespace between them, so you essentially had 100% + a single space (whose width of course depends on your font, so it also depends on the platform, argh!). Nowadays, most of my big containers are actually floating blocks instead of inline-blocks, but some things are still inline or inline-block (such as lined-up checkboxes or radios), and so I depend on some tool to remove the whitespace between them coming from line breaks+tabs in my source file.

FYI, sheet version 0.4.2 has been accepted by Roll20 and will be going live soon.

Any idea if/how/when this will override the present "official" sheet? Not really sure how these things are handled.  I am running a game this evening and crossing fingers for a smooth session.  Thanks again for all your hard work on this, looks fantastic and I am sure my players will love the updates and attention to detail.

Otherish said: Any idea if/how/when this will override the present "official" sheet? Not really sure how these things are handled.  I am running a game this evening and crossing fingers for a smooth session.  Thanks again for all your hard work on this, looks fantastic and I am sure my players will love the updates and attention to detail. The sheet is live now! The situation is this: the old sheet is now in "deprecated" status, which means that any game with the old sheet can keep it indefinitely, but new games can only be created with this (new) sheet. Since many fields changed names, we didn't have the new sheet just override the old one, in order for people not to lose data. When you have a bit of time to make the switch, you can copy your game, select the new sheet for the copy, and then open both in separate tabs and transfer data manually. Or have your players do it.

Awesome thanks again :)

I feel really stupid that I did not notice this when I was checking the sheet out previously, but... The old sheet had the ability to have an in-Roll20 representation of the Faction sheet, with the different faction categories. You could enter in all of the standard as well as custom factions and their Tier/Hold/Status, so you had a very usable overview of the situation that can be easily changed as play goes on, and conveys a lot of info at a glance. The new sheet has the ability to add a very basic Faction/Status ticker. But having no Category layout or sections for easily noting Tier/Hold, that all ends up going into the text fields and makes a mess. Is there a plan to have an equivalent of the old Factions tab in the future? Thanks again for all the hard work, looking great.

Can we add more to the cohorts so that we can have a type selector and maybe flaws/edges on them as well instead of just manually writing in the text box?

Chris M. said: Can we add more to the cohorts so that we can have a type selector and maybe flaws/edges on them as well instead of just manually writing in the text box? Type selector(it displays on hover) + roll button (taking into account the type + impaired) are already a thing in my current development version :). I'll have to think about putting flaws/edges there in an economical and nice-looking way. mike t. said: I feel really stupid that I did not notice this when I was checking the sheet out previously, but... The old sheet had the ability to have an in-Roll20 representation of the Faction sheet, with the different faction categories. You could enter in all of the standard as well as custom factions and their Tier/Hold/Status, so you had a very usable overview of the situation that can be easily changed as play goes on, and conveys a lot of info at a glance. The new sheet has the ability to add a very basic Faction/Status ticker. But having no Category layout or sections for easily noting Tier/Hold, that all ends up going into the text fields and makes a mess. Is there a plan to have an equivalent of the old Factions tab in the future? Thanks again for all the hard work, looking great. I knew someone would ask this! I'm definitely planning on putting a more complete version of factions into the sheet - I mostly just put in the current one so people would have something . It's not on the paper sheet, so I unfortunately do not have a good example here. I'm not so keen on recreating the multiple-repeating-sections layout of the old sheet - it produces a lot of visual clutter - , and the categories honestly seemed somewhat arbitrary. But I agree that indicators for Tier/Hold are a good idea. Maybe moving it to the left column, since it offers quite a bit more space. I've also implemented a collapsible textarea so you can store notes on a faction.

Jakob said: mike t. said: I feel really stupid that I did not notice this when I was checking the sheet out previously, but... The old sheet had the ability to have an in-Roll20 representation of the Faction sheet, with the different faction categories. You could enter in all of the standard as well as custom factions and their Tier/Hold/Status, so you had a very usable overview of the situation that can be easily changed as play goes on, and conveys a lot of info at a glance. The new sheet has the ability to add a very basic Faction/Status ticker. But having no Category layout or sections for easily noting Tier/Hold, that all ends up going into the text fields and makes a mess. Is there a plan to have an equivalent of the old Factions tab in the future? Thanks again for all the hard work, looking great. I knew someone would ask this! I'm definitely planning on putting a more complete version of factions into the sheet - I mostly just put in the current one so people would have something . It's not on the paper sheet, so I unfortunately do not have a good example here. I'm not so keen on recreating the multiple-repeating-sections layout of the old sheet - it produces a lot of visual clutter - , and the categories honestly seemed somewhat arbitrary. But I agree that indicators for Tier/Hold are a good idea. Maybe moving it to the left column, since it offers quite a bit more space. I've also implemented a collapsible textarea so you can store notes on a faction. I had the feeling you were already working on it. :)  Would it make more sense, layout-wise, to have it be another selectable Tab on the new sheet like on the old one, where you have both a Crew and a Factions tab in the Character Sheet? That way it would not be adding any clutter to the main sheet, but you could flip from the main tab to a Factions tab and get that as a whole separate section? Or does the new sheet style preclude there being sub-tabs under the Bio/Character Sheet/Attributes main sections?

I had been imagining that each Roll20 character sheet could be one of three things; a playbook, a crew sheet, or the faction sheet. And the faction sheet would then replicate this - not a tab of another sheet, but a whole sheet-type in itself that all players and the GM can reference/edit. 

Tim said: I had been imagining that each Roll20 character sheet could be one of three things; a playbook, a crew sheet, or the faction sheet. And the faction sheet would then replicate this - not a tab of another sheet, but a whole sheet-type in itself that all players and the GM can reference/edit.  That was going to be my "If not a Tab, then how about..." suggestion; I just, not being a sheet author, don't want to be completely talking pie in the sky and throwing out a million things at once. :)  I did something very similar with having a dedicated "Character" sheet in the now-deprecated version that was editable by everybody and permanently left on the Clocks tab, as a way to have an easily visible/usable clocks interface for everybody rather than sticking them on the screen and playing with tokens, and the different maps etc. It works out really well, and having something like that for the Faction map would be great as well.

I mean specifically Gangs are broken into Adepts/Killers/Rooks/Rovers/Shadows/Thugs.  Or is the intent to replace "COHORT" with the type tag vs a specific descriptor of the group instead of "Oskar's Wierdos" for a group of Adept cohorts etc?

Right, no need to stick to the two categories we have already. Get rid of preconceived notions. It would be possible to either pull of the "dedicated faction sheet" plan once I figure out how to do a three-way radio button with the top sheet type selector, or display the factions as a sort of full-width overlay accessible via a button on the Crew sheet. Similar to how the gear button for settings works (just less ugly than the settings box).

Chris M. said: I mean specifically Gangs are broken into Adepts/Killers/Rooks/Rovers/Shadows/Thugs.  Or is the intent to replace "COHORT" with the type tag vs a specific descriptor of the group instead of "Oskar's Wierdos" for a group of Adept cohorts etc? Ah, I see what you mean. I could think of it going either way. I think the original intention would have been to put Adepts instead of "Oskar's Weirdos". But between edge, flaw, gang/expert type, we are potentially looking at a lot of fields to squeeze into the cohort section. EDIT: Come to think of it, I have an idea. It may or may not involve adding a second line to the black bar at the top and moving the button there.

Oh yeah, and is there a way to easily add negative dice to roll templates in roll20?  The new change to Daredevil means at times you need to subtract a die from your resistance roll and the only way at the moment would either be to just ignore one of the results or to alter your stats before rolling and then change them back.

Chris M. said: Oh yeah, and is there a way to easily add negative dice to roll templates in roll20?  The new change to Daredevil means at times you need to subtract a die from your resistance roll and the only way at the moment would either be to just ignore one of the results or to alter your stats before rolling and then change them back. I would be nice if that's a possibility, thankfully with these sheets the rolls are shown in order so you can drop the last die rolled as a workaround (Yes, I use Daredevil a lot).

Negative dice can be done, but definitely not easily (Roll templates are rather limited in the logic they can do, unfortunately). You'll have to just drop the last result for now. New cohorts:

Okay, check out the test game. New features: Improved cohorts All-new faction mode. Existing faction section on the crew sheet is removed (but the data ends up in a big text box on the faction page) Standard Doskvol factions can be generated by button click

Faction section...now there's a good idea!  ;)

Loving the Faction mode so far. I'm awful, and can totally forsee having two sheets in Faction mode; one for the players, and one for me where I have a ton of notes in the Notes dropdowns.

Zefyr said: Faction section...now there's a good idea!  ;) I know, I know...

So quick! Great work Jakob.

This looks great, but I would need pro for it, right?

Morec0 said: This looks great, but I would need pro for it, right? It's now the default sheet for Blades in the Dark (thought it may take time for updates to get pushed to roll20).

A thing I noticed and changed while modding this to work for S&V, the auto generation is awesome especially for the abilities and contacts, however generation can't fill the non-repeatingability/contact section that exists by default.  Which means the user has to initially fill in a space at the top then delete the duplicate generated ability/contact, or just have the default empty ability/contact sitting there at the top of the menu. While there are user work arounds like copy/past deleting using it for veteran advances etc, the DIV's work perfectly fine without the default ability space there.  On the sheet I'm messing with I just took the default "Ability1_name/desc/check" sections out and let it auto generate them, as it seems less work for the user (though may not be as intuitive if users don't explore the sheet and use the generate buttons).  Do you think the sheet would look better without that section?  Or is there a way to make the generation scrip start in ability 1 instead of the fieldset?  Or I suppose move the top move ability from the ability array and just add ability1 to the base and insert the top ability there per class.

Chris M. said: A thing I noticed and changed while modding this to work for S&V, the auto generation is awesome especially for the abilities and contacts, however generation can't fill the non-repeatingability/contact section that exists by default.  Which means the user has to initially fill in a space at the top then delete the duplicate generated ability/contact, or just have the default empty ability/contact sitting there at the top of the menu. While there are user work arounds like copy/past deleting using it for veteran advances etc, the DIV's work perfectly fine without the default ability space there.  On the sheet I'm messing with I just took the default "Ability1_name/desc/check" sections out and let it auto generate them, as it seems less work for the user (though may not be as intuitive if users don't explore the sheet and use the generate buttons).  Do you think the sheet would look better without that section?  Or is there a way to make the generation scrip start in ability 1 instead of the fieldset?  Or I suppose move the top move ability from the ability array and just add ability1 to the base and insert the top ability there per class. Good question. The non-repeating parts are a bit of a hassle from a conceptual point of view. They exist for reasons of intuitiveness and new-user-friendliness. The problem with having the first entry of the generation script going to the ability1 (etc) part is that you then have to start caring about overwriting user-entered data. You don't have that problem anymore when you move it to the base (where I'm already careful not to overwrite stuff), with the disadvantage that it's no longer possible to generate another playbook's top ability. There's another solution: get rid of the extra row in the html, and generate it on the first 'sheet:opened' via sheet workers. I'm thinking something like this: on('sheet:opened', function() { let initialRows = [ 'ability', 'friend', 'crewability', 'contact' ]; getAttrs(['version'], function(v) { if (!v.version) { let setting = _.reduce(initialRows, function(memo, sectionName) { memo[`repeating_${sectionName}_${generateRowID()}_dummy`] = 1; return memo; },{}); setAttrs(setting); } // Set version as normal here. }); }); Then you can at least just delete the top row after pressing the 'Add abilities' button (or you could have the generate script look up the row and delete it if it still exists in its default state). EDIT: I think I will put this solution into the sheet, it's just as user-friendly as the non-repeating ability on top, but it is cleaner and makes more sense. cohort1 will remain where it is (for a variety of reasons).